[CPEX] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[BlackYakuzu94]

3C's been jump cancellable for the longest throughout all of CP :V

 

 

As for your opinion, he's pretty much the same as always. They just made what we can do even better....so I guess that would qualify him as "braindead"

[D.R.F.]

Ye

[Tong]

Just because he has more options it definitely doesnt make him braindead, if you stay predictable with your blockstrings they will eventually figure a way out and you will lose the pressure in every attempt. You're aiming for a compromise between staying safe, forcing them to block while keeping the pressure, and then going for riskier options to get in. And that's where his new blockstrings help.

The new options he got in CP2 either give him safer pressure enders (6A> 2D, 5C> 6C) or more versatile and less risky ways to keep up the pressure.

 

I personally like 5C>6C because it gives Ragna a jump cancelable option at ranges he would have to give up on pressure before, and 6C>5D (it's tight and probably can be delayed to create a frametrap) will be useful to keep them honest. In general his options off 5C are so much better now, so it's easier to start something at ranges Ragna usually plays.

[LaowPing]

Slight rant, my opinion not yours:

 

I just read the opening post for changes plus I've been watching some Ragna videos Jourdal's uploaded in YouTube.

 

Is it just me or does 2.0 Ragna's offense / combos seem a little braindead to you guys? Not like in a OP character kinda way but with the new gatlings he got and how he's specials changed. I kinda liked how in CP1-1.1 he had clear limitations and demanded honest play from good Ragna players but now he can pretty much just mash 5B > 5C at every turn. The only really necessary addition in my opinion was the good ol' 6B > 5C but now it just feels they made him a mashing machine.

 

3C is jump cancellable? https://youtu.be/uAxkvXQnLjo?t=13m36s haha I feel stupid :D

Wait, 6B, 5C is back?

 

And yeah, his combos look a lot easier now.

[Tong]

Didnt see this change listed anywhere, but I'm pretty sure that either 5B's untechable has been nerfed, or 5C's buffed, because they can no longer be used interchangeably in combos at the later parts.

That or maybe I am overlooking something?

[BlackYakuzu94]

New hitstun might have something to do with it.

[Tong]

Another changed not listed is that 6C is special cancelable on block now.

[Final Ultima]

That change has been reflected in the Revolver Action table on the frame data page since I started applying changes, but I forgot to add it to the opening post. Thanks for the reminder.

As for the whole 5B vs 5C untechable time thing, I'm going to hold off on adding it to the change list until we know exactly what changed. Unfortunately we don't have any hitstun value information right now, so the frame data page is still very much incomplete.

[WolfCrimson]

I got a question regarding 5D oki in the corner: I've been watching CHaos (RG) vs Leon (KA) and I see chaos always ending his combos with 5D, not doing HF. What's the advantage of using 5D as an ender instead of HF?

[BlackYakuzu94]

Hmm, good question. I know 5D does hard knockdown now, but I don't know how much advantage it gives.

[Verimeloni]

I just picked this game up again and I'm really digging the j.D > j.214B delay j.214D route, even from an innocent 2B hit with RC you get fullscreen carry and 3.3k damage.

[Verimeloni]

I just found out that in the corner, you can link 5A off of a throw. While the damage is very scarce (throw > 5A > j.ABD > j.214D > 2A > 5B > DID ~little over 2k damage) it maybe good for opponents with little health left who are mashing burst.

[Blackwing55]

I just made a Ragna combo video of things I came up with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt8oyG7ZQJQ, let me know how the combos are, or if their are ones more efficient.

[Tong]

I just made a Ragna combo video of things I came up with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt8oyG7ZQJQ, let me know how the combos are, or if their are ones more efficient.

They're mostly fine, the optimal routes are all like that, but in some instances (corner TK BS combos) it would be possible to go for a better route, namely: 22C> filler> BE> filler> DS> ender.

General rule for CPE Ragna is the earlier 22C done the better, followed by BE and then DS when applicable. Examples from your video and how they can be optimized based on that "general rule":

• CH 6D (whiff j.D)> 5B> 5C> TK BE> 5C> 2C> 5D> DS> 5C> 2C> 5D> 22C> HF, Damage: 4432
• CH 6D (whiff j.D)> 5C> 5D> 22C (DC)> 5B> 5C> TK BE> 5C> 5D> DS (DC)> 5D> HF, Damage: 4445 (Optimized)
• airhit 5B> 5D> DS (DC)> 2C> 5C> TK BE> 5B> 5C> 6A> TK BS> 5B> 5C> 5D> 22C> HF, Damage: 4500
• airhit 5B> 5D> 22C (DC)> 5B> 5C> TK BE> 5C> 5D> DS> 5C> 5D> HF, Damage: 4503 (Optimized)
• airhit 5B> 5C> 5D> DS (DC)> 2C> 5C> TK BE> 5C> 6A> TK BS> 5B> 5C> 5D> 22C> HF, Damage: 4628
• airhit 5B> 5C> 5D> 22C (DC)> 5B> 5C> TK BE> 2C> delay 5C> 5D> DS (DC)> 5D> HF, Damage: 4630 (Optimized)
• crouching hit 5B> 5C> 6C> 6D (JC)> j.C> j.214C> 5C> 2C> 5D> DS> 5C> 2C> 5D> 22C> HF, Damage: 5035
• crouching hit 5B> 5C> 6C> 6D (JC)> j.214C> 5C> 2C> 5D> DS> 5C> 2C> 5D> 22C> HF, Damage: 5067 (Optimized)
• CH 5C> 6C> CT> 6C> TK BE> 5C> 5D> DS> 5C> 2C> 5D> 22C> HF, Damage: 5737
• CH 5C> 6C> CT> 6C> 6D (JC)> j.214C> 5C> 5D> DS (DC)> 5D> 22C> HF, Damage: 5742 (Optimized)

You may notice that the "general rule" isnt always applicable, particularly on combos involving crouching/OTG, where it's better to take advantage of routes like "6C> 6D> BE" because they add very little proration and have considerable damage, resulting in better damage overall. This is noticeable on the "crouching 5B" and "CH 5C" starters combos, where less but better combo fillers resulted in higher damage.

However CPE Ragna is pretty versatile when it comes to combos, so even if you're not strictly following his combo theory you can still inflict considerable damage. If I had to make a comparison between a "whatever" combo route and a optimal one, the difference in damage would probably be less than 10% on most scenarios.

But I personally, never say "no" to more damage

[Verimeloni]

This is probably old news but...

My opponents tend to escape from the corner after HF kd by forward teching my blue beat 2A/B, so I devised something to keep them in there:

HF > 2A > 5D, if they tech forward the 2nd hit will catch them so

5D(2) > 22C (this actually corrects even if they cross-up, it's funny) > 66 5B > 5C > j.BC > j.214C > 5C > 5D > 236D > 5C > 5D > HF = 4211

22C doesn't catch them on neutral tech, on those occasions 5D > 236D is good.

[Verimeloni]

At least Ragna can escape with holding back tech + reversal, other than that it should be "almost" unblockable :I

[DJ_Blactricity]

Don't mean to be a killjoy, but you should record your last two posts as p2 and try to escape yourself. These are gimmicks that can put you in bad situations and/or lose you the match.