[CPE] µ12 General Discussion

[pochp]

Sad news, I don't think we can go gapless into 6b(1), it's slower than I thought. On normal block, 6a 6b and 5c 6b are gapless, but on instant block there's a gap. So, unless they changed levels on our normals, I believe that means it has a 16f startup.

Some new notes after trying a few of these combos,

corner : ~SoD dash 2b 5c 2c 5d jc dlj.2c 623c (6b)(5c)2c 4d j.2c j.xd

this combo is decent at far ranges, and not that hard. I find the timing for the last j.2c tight, but you can also just end it in 6b 3c for something much easier.

corner : ~SoD 2b 6a 4d 5c (dl) 6b 2c [5d] ikutachi crossunder 6a 2c [5d] (or 4[d]) j.2c j.5d/2d

timing on the last j.2c is tricky, it's maybe more a height thing actually, don't hit them too high with the last 6a. You can input the dash for the crossunder pretty early.

corner : 6b 6c 5d dl 5c SoD dash 3c 6[d] 2c dl ikutachi crossunder 2c 5[d](or 4[d]) j.2c j.5d/2d

this combo seems also good on like airdash j.b 2b 5c 6c etc. The last 2c 5[d] j.2c seems more stable than the previous combo.

midscreen : 6b 5c 6c ikutachi dash 2c 2d 2c 2d j.c dj.c j.2c j.d j.2c land 5c 2c 6d j.c j.2c (~3500)

this combo's giving me trouble, can't seem to hit with the last j.2c. anyone have any ideas or a better combo?

A few questions/ideas :

Does anyone have ideas on solid roll punish combos? good old 2b 5c 6c etc. is obviously gone. Maybe 2b 2c ikutachi etc, I'd have to test.

Post crush trigger, any ideas if they're standing? Losing 6b force crouch is unfortunate. Do we have enough time for something like max charge SoD, walk back 6c, or maybe even set stein then start a combo and use it to extend the combo?

[KonannFriends]

If I if we maybe had some archived recent Mu 12 videos there probably is some secret tech. Maybe laser setups? I even think 2b SoD could work.

Try getting a pick up like

2b,6a,2c

2b,5b,5a,ja/jb?

I've gotta get ready for work. So no grind for me til tonight.

I like all these 6b starter combos but.. What's the Standard Combo for a Midscreen counter hit 5c, non counter hit also

[bakahyl]

A few questions/ideas :

Does anyone have ideas on solid roll punish combos? good old 2b 5c 6c etc. is obviously gone. Maybe 2b 2c ikutachi etc, I'd have to test.

Post crush trigger, any ideas if they're standing? Losing 6b force crouch is unfortunate. Do we have enough time for something like max charge SoD, walk back 6c, or maybe even set stein then start a combo and use it to extend the combo?

- depending on the distance catching the opponent with 2b, shouldn't 2b, 6a > 6b or 6c (if the opponent rolled through you) work?

 

- how about using a throw? since the opponent cant tech it while they are in guardbroken state

[StylisH]

Good Lord she has a lot of steins in corner combos now

[KonannFriends]

So I can get 4.8 off meterless midscreen fatal 6c.

That is good damage but I was wondering if anyone has a better combo

Also I get about 4080 of a counter 5c. So if you Have a stronger composer me know.

Also can We get someone to post my-12 footage. Eveyone else has their character footage getting posted mean while we have to search YouTube forever.

[pochp]

Played a good amount of offline matches and training mode this weekend :D

 

General Impressions : man this character feels very different. I'm still not comfortable at all with stein cancel into normals at neutral, nor the new j.2c. Pressure was confusing, but the rules seem to be : 1 6b, 2 drives, 2 of 5c and/or 2c (aside from all the old obvious stuff). Combos feel a bit harder to pull off in game, possibly lots of height specific things to keep in mind, tachi dash 2c is going to take me a while to get 100% on both sides lol. Really hard to get decent damage off some stray hits. RIP j.a into decent damage and oki lol. I like the new totsuka (236d) because it stays out longer, though it's unfortunate that it doesn't combo into itself as well. Is it just me or is the laser super faster than before? Feel like the lasers don't stay on the screen as much. Can't seem to get a knockdown from midscreen DP RC (you could sometimes DP CH RC 5c 6c etc. before). I do like the character more though, seems safer overall, and steins don't dominate as much. Neutral still feels pretty similar, but I have a hard time keeping momentum, as I keep trying to go for new strings, but I'm not as comfortable with them yet obviously and the improvisation goes wrong heh.

 

 

 

Pressure : messing around a bit, it feels pretty annoying to get the correct spacing for a 6b(2) depending on if they're instant blocking, normal blocking, or barrier blocking. It'll take a bit to get comfortable. For now, it feels like whenever I get the right spacing to gatling into it, my opponent is as ready as I am. That said, it seems pretty impressive as a pressure tool. I kind of want to think of a list of strings that can loop into each other, and can be applied to different kinds of guards. More variety makes it harder for the opponent to escape!

2b 3c 5d 5c 6b 2d 6c 236d. pretty good because if they block 6c the lasers prevent them from escaping 236d. Its weakness is that you can jump before the 6c, so as an alternative :

2b 3c 5d 5c delay 6b delay 5c 236d. also ok because if they jump after 5c, they can't really prevent the laser from coming out (character specific obv, but in a mu mirror they'd be out of 5c range after the second 5c), and it stays out long enough you should be able to take advantage of the situation anyway. Both of these are weak to early mashing, which if you do standard frame traps you should be able to cover.

Now to think of some strings that include more early frame traps that are confirmable and manage to keep the advantage afterwards... btw as of now I haven't tested out these strings in matches, but they should be okay as long as you're not autopiloting into them. I'm mostly doing 2a 6a 2b 2c (6b/delay 3c) into whatever.


Corner Oki : The setup I translated from mixi on the other page is ok, but I'd tweak it a bit. I think pretty quickly people won't try to mash or block high on wakeup, so his string (2b 5b 3c 5d then either jump on block to mixup or SoD if it hits) didn't use the lasers to cover the following approach well enough imo (in matches people were either jumping or something, didn't force respect, unless you do 2b 5b 3c jump (no stein) but then you miss out on the stein). So as a tradeoff, I feel like doing 2b 3c 5d jump should work decently. I doubt you could react fast enough to confirm if 2b hits, but that would be rare. Instead, you get a second attempt at mixup afterwards. So, the pattern goes something like this :

2b 3c SoD dash 2b 6a 4d 5c (dl) 6b slight delay 2c [5d] ikutachi crossunder 6a 2c [5d] (or 4[d]) j.2c j.5d
or
6b 6c 5d dl 5c SoD dash 3c 6[d] 2c dl ikutachi (crossunder?) 2c 5[d](or 4[d]) j.2c j.5d/2d
or
throw dl [soD] dl 4d 5c 6b dl 2c 5[d] (or 4[d]) j.2c j.5d
(they wakeup from emergency tech. going to look into other wakeup options later. forward roll catch combo lower in the post)
meaty blocked 2b 3c 5d jump forward (do barrier block while rising so you block counter assault or any DP afterwards as there's a gap before the lasers iirc), then, lasers hit them while you're in the air, they kind of have to take your mixup :
-airdash j.b 2b (laser hits) so if it hits your combo is j.b 2b 5c 6c into the same route as the 6b 6c combo posted right above. If it's blocked you can dash again after 2b or set something or whatever.
-land 2b 6a 3c (laser hits) so if it hits your combo is probably like 2b 6a 3c [soD] 2b 5c 2c 5d j.c delay j.2c j.623c 6b 3c until I find something better. If it's blocked you can use the blockstun after 3c to set a stein or something and go into a blockstring like the ones shown above.
-land throw (laser whiffs) into throw combo from above. On that note, I feel like if you time a j.2c perfectly so that the animation of the blade comes out but you land before it can hit them, recover and throw instantly, it would be a really tricky mixup. You could do this in the last game, it worked almost every time, but it was a lot harder to do consistently. Hidden buff hype? :D
-There's also something that could be done with CT or 6b but idk atm.


Roll catches : 2b 6a is more reliable than I thought. I really liked 2b 5c because no matter which side you hit them (left or right), you can't get those inputs mixed up. Luckily, it looks like the 2b 6a chain will autocorrect even if you input it on the wrong side (at some timings), so that works. From there, standard anti-air combo for good damage and setup.

2b 2c delay tachi also works, so I'd use that if they're farther away. Here's a simple idea of a combo to bring them back in the corner after a roll, there's probably a much better one that can be done : https://twitter.com/pochp_/status/592015992810819584

That's for cases where you end your corner combo stuck really close to them. If you're far enough that 2b will hit with them having their back to the corner, 2b 5c SoD into normal corner combo should work, depending on what lasers you set up (it will if you didn't set any).


Guard Crush : throw works for now I guess, no time for fully charged SoD nor backdash 6c. Btw this throw combo is nice because the lasers almost hit meaty, so you can use it for safe approaches, and possibly catching backdashes and other things :
throw [soD] dash 2b 6a 6c 5d 6b(2) 6d 3c
 

So I can get 4.8 off meterless midscreen fatal 6c.
That is good damage but I was wondering if anyone has a better combo

Also I get about 4080 of a counter 5c. So if you Have a stronger composer me know.

Also can We get someone to post my-12 footage. Eveyone else has their character footage getting posted mean while we have to search YouTube forever.

I haven't really looked into 6c FC combos, but I'd be curious to see that one. Serizawa posted one that seems to do similar damage : https://twitter.com/srzaasuka/status/591266256092696576
6c FC 2d 6d 5b 6b 3c [soD] dash 2c 2d 2c 2d j.c dj.c j.2c j.5d j.2c land j.2c (4863)

Using a midscreen 6b route I posted on the last page (that I took from a JP mixi page), on 5c CH you get 4247:
5c CH 6c tachi dash 2c 2d 2c 2d j.c dj.c j.2c j.5d j.2c dash 5c 2c 6d (s)j.c j.2c

If you want to see match videos, you can look at http://horibuna.web.fc2.com/BBCP/BBCP_12.html most links are niconico so you'll either need to make an account or use a niconico redirector http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html I believe Jourdal gets most of his links from nico, so matches you find on youtube are probably there as well.

If people want to post up match videos, this can be done in the current video thread until the new one is up. However, unless someone wants to through a lot of matches, we'll be missing a lot, so the Horibuna list is possibly more complete. I'd recommend watching either H.H or Serizawa (せりざわ).

[bakahyl]

I didn't saw this combo before

 

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26095926

 

edit: youtube version

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO61vzS5DhE

[KonannFriends]

Poncho. I know what you mean about keeping the momentum. But I have figured out that keeping the momentum in This version is more about abusing j2c.

So as you guys probably know Tao is a monster in this game. And it wasn't an easy MU in 1.1

In this version j.2c shuts down Tao completely . the only thing is ; is that because Tao is so fast getting big damage on HER is hard because you can't really get a counter hit. (but run up 6c after a SoD knockdown into fatal works a lot because people seem to want to mash a low on wakeup when I dash at them.) I have more stuff but I guess this isn't the place to post it.

I still have trouble with the kagura MU. But I labed last night and found out that a timed 2b low profiles his 6d>c ( I think. The full screen jab) that mover was the reason I was losing the MU.

And for that Fatal combo it is pretty easy And gets. 4.8 Or 4.9 if you end with dp.

6c 6d SoD full charge. Dashup 2c 6b 2c 2d jb jc jb jc j2c > Stein hits jb jc jb jc j2c optional dp. I to end with a dp but if you want to place steins then dont

[bakahyl]

Actually 1.1 Tao was not a good character after the heavy nerfs, so i wasn't worried about her in 1.1

 

I am not sure if i am willingly to take the risk of trying to challenge his 6d~c at certain ranges because on CH, you will be eating a 4-5k damage combo plus a heavy corner carry

And if you think that you can reliably poke Kagura out of his 6d~c with 2b, then a potential CH 3c would net more reward. although it's slower

[bakahyl]

Not related to CPE but I never knew that unlimited Mu was capable of this

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u9_GvIqDks

[StylisH]

Poncho. I know what you mean about keeping the momentum. But I have figured out that keeping the momentum in This version is more about abusing j2c.

So as you guys probably know Tao is a monster in this game. And it wasn't an easy MU in 1.1

In this version j.2c shuts down Tao completely . the only thing is ; is that because Tao is so fast getting big damage on HER is hard because you can't really get a counter hit. (but run up 6c after a SoD knockdown into fatal works a lot because people seem to want to mash a low on wakeup when I dash at them.) I have more stuff but I guess this isn't the place to post it.

I still have trouble with the kagura MU. But I labed last night and found out that a timed 2b low profiles his 6d>c ( I think. The full screen jab) that mover was the reason I was losing the MU.

And for that Fatal combo it is pretty easy And gets. 4.8 Or 4.9 if you end with dp.

6c 6d SoD full charge. Dashup 2c 6b 2c 2d jb jc jb jc j2c > Stein hits jb jc jb jc j2c optional dp. I to end with a dp but if you want to place steins then dont

 

Tao can crawl under 6C I believe and puninsh you with her own 6C

[bakahyl]

not at home for the whole week, so i cant test it myself. but has 6b stil have some frames of foot invulnerability?

[KonannFriends]

I'll test it out tonight. But I don't think so. I wish it was throw invincible I gee grabbed out of it a lot when I go for a meaty 6b.

And as for Tao crawling under 6c that isn't very likely because I would be dashing at them abd crawling means she's not blocking. I mean I guess it could happen but the Tao player would have to be making hard reads

[C0R]

not at home for the whole week, so i cant test it myself. but has 6b stil have some frames of foot invulnerability?

 

Yes

 

I'll test it out tonight. But I don't think so. I wish it was throw invincible I gee grabbed out of it a lot when I go for a meaty 6b.

And as for Tao crawling under 6c that isn't very likely because I would be dashing at them abd crawling means she's not blocking. I mean I guess it could happen but the Tao player would have to be making hard reads

 

If you're getting grabbed out of your meaty you're missing your meaty by at least 7 frames, that's enough for every character in the game to jab you, so throw invulnerability wouldn't help.

 

Tao can simply hold 3 after IB'ing 5c and crawl right under the 6c gatling, it's very common at higher level play as it's her only real meterless defensive option.

[KonannFriends]

Yeah your right I do wait to long.

And I get what your saying about Tao. But I didn't mean it was a good strat just a parlor trick.

Anyone know the combo and setup for a counter hit j2c Middcreen during nuetral. I get those a lot and feel like that's when my momentum should begin but I'm not sure what to do when I get the chance

[C0R]

Yeah your right I do wait to long.

And I get what your saying about Tao. But I didn't mean it was a good strat just a parlor trick.

Anyone know the combo and setup for a counter hit j2c Middcreen during nuetral. I get those a lot and feel like that's when my momentum should begin but I'm not sure what to do when I get the chance

Here are some quick, easier bnb's

Standing Ground CH : 6a 5c 6b 3c SoD = 2194/15

Crouching Ground CH : 5c 2c 6c 63214b 66a 6d 5c 6b 2c 2d j.b j.c dj.b dj.c j.2c SoD = 3309/23

Air CH : 66 2b 6a 4d 5c 6b 2c 2d j.c j.b dj.b dj.c j.2c 6c 5[D] 2c 6d j.c j.2c = 3047/21

[KonannFriends]

Thanks for the bnbs but you still didn't give me a CH j2c combo lol

[C0R]

All of those combos start with j.2c....

[KonannFriends]

Oh lol. Thanks. Anyone know that combo that has the laser hit wherever they tech

[pochp]

Couldn't make a full video for basic combos and setups before leaving for KSB because obviously not enough time to experiment with all the new stuff. In the meantime, here are some clips of the stuff I'll try to use there (and most likely fail miserably because I haven't practiced enough). So, some combos and some oki options. Hope it gives you guys some ideas too, hope we can all share tech more this version, because there will be lots. I'll start working on a video when I get back. Wish me luck guys :D

 

Blockstring idea : https://twitter.com/pochp_/status/593583065634574336

 

Corner overhead combo & mixup : https://twitter.com/pochp_/status/593586492745916416(iirc you can do the same one with airdash j.b 2b 5c 6c etc.)

 

Low corner combos & mixup : https://twitter.com/pochp_/status/593594772331180032(first one is if you're close, second one is for farther. Could have gotten a better ender but sometimes it's unstable because of the combo timer so I prefer to keep it simple with 3c)

 

Corner throw combo & mixup : https://twitter.com/pochp_/status/593596278644191232

 

Midscreen RC/anti air combo : https://twitter.com/pochp_/status/593600652963483648

 

Midscreen overhead combo : https://twitter.com/pochp_/status/593604366021500928but I think this one is kinda unstable.

 

 

tried out my blockstring ideas, they're good vs normal block, but pretty bad against instant block and barrier so I'll have to find some. Some ideas :

vs barrier : 2b 2d 5c 236a dash 5c etc.

vs instant block : idk, altering the delay on normals usually works. You delay a couple so they think they'll have time to press a button, and then you don't delay on the next chain.

 

Sadly, 2c frametrap into 5c whiff hitconfirm doesn't seem like a thing in this version, as 5c just hits them... 2c wait dash 6a or 2c xd 6c delay tachi is a thing though. Unfortunately 2c xd 6c SoD max just won't work because the stein hits right after SoD in all 4 cases. However, 2c 5[d] 6c SoD max works (on mu anyway)

 

2c CH 5[d] 6c [soD] dash 2b 6a 2c 2d j.b j.c dj.c j.2c (3865)

2c CH 6a 6b 2c 2d j.c j.b dj.b j.c j.2c 6c 5[d] 2c 6d j.c j.2c (3600ish)

2c CH 5d delay 6c tachi dash 6a 6b 2c 2d j.c j.b dj.b j.c j.2c land j.2c (3572)

 

 

@KonannFriends : do the same combo you'd do as if you hit with j.a. If it's air to air it's kinda height specific, but it comes down to : some normal, jump cancel j.b and or j.c, j.2c. If they're on the ground do any ground combo you'd do on 2a (so like 2a 2b 5c SoD). If they're in the air but close to the ground you might get something nice but idk what at the moment, heh..

 

 

 

edit : just an idea, but I think 2c 6b (2) is easier to block than 5c 6b (2), because you're switching from crouching to standing, so more things the opponent can react to.

[KonannFriends]

Good luck and thanks that anti air and Oki setup is good. Also I followed you on Twitter... Follow back!!.

Also I found a video on horubuna and this got like pressure and I'm sure if we learned it We would be able to open up or opponents more. I'm going to try to find it and link it

[KonannFriends]

2015.04.04　スーパービンゴ郡山店　BBCP2大会④ (00:11:04) #sm25978398 http://t.co/D22DpB95Nw

There's the video. Its the first round of the Mu vs Jin fight

Also he gets 4k off a non counter hit 6b.

[Wild Candy]

Can anyone give me some basic BnB's for Mu to practice in CPE.

[Runis]

Also he gets 4k off a non counter hit 6b.

That required a stein set into 6b, guy flinches 6c. the 6b wasn't a part of the combo. I believe 6b would have prorated it much harder than a raw 6c

[KonannFriends]

Aww man I didn't even notice. Nice that you caught that cuz I would have been trying to learn that combo.

But even so that route was pretty neat and stylish .

And about the Stein placement part I realize that.

Honestly at first I had thought she had gotten easier but now I can truly say she takes a lot more skill and will take a lot of character loyalty and time.

Right now I'm about 40 wins with 200 matches. Pitiful I know !

But after watching a lot of Japanese I notice that these guys are placing steins with anticipation of a hitconfirm. Knowing what to combo from at timing of things will come sooner or later but now all we can do is play and figure out things and share as much as possible.

Mu-12 isn't a character that anyone can play at her full potential like other characters such as ... Say ragna. But when someone reeeaally learns her and steins become an extension of her only then will she becomes truly deadly