[CPE] µ12 General Discussion

[Arklancer]

Right now I'm about 40 wins with 200 matches. Pitiful I know !

 

Better than me. Im lucky if I even have 10/100 -.-. Can't be sure though because player matches.

 

This is thanks to being so badly out of practice and not exactly being fond of the mu changes. Really stretching my character loyalty to the point im playing ragna just as much.

[Zeromus_X]

Will we get a combo/oki thread compiling all this stuff eventually? My mind is struggling to comprehend the alien geometries of these new combos

 

Also, any tips on dash 2C after Tachi or is it just a "practice moar" thing?

[pochp]

Dash 2c after tachi : you can input the dash pretty early, but it's still kinda hard imo. Gotta practice :|

[KonannFriends]

Guys I need some corner pressure and openers. 6b [1] 4d 3c always opens open the openent but after they fall for it 3 or 4 times it doesn't work. It would help if I study the gatlings a bit more but if you could just share some of your tactics that would help tremendously.

[Zeromus_X]

Anyone know the best combos off of 6c FC and 5c CH in the corner?

Starting to grind down dash 2c after tachi. You can dash a lot sooner after tachi than I thought. Inputting 661C after mu flips helps me get it pretty consistently.

[KonannFriends]

Anyone know the best combos off of 6c FC and 5c CH in the corner?

Starting to grind down dash 2c after tachi. You can dash a lot sooner after tachi than I thought. Inputting 661C after mu flips helps me get it pretty consistently.

Everyone one is talking about 2c after tachi dash? I've been using 6a 6b. Is 2c a better option or combos for better Oki setups? I'm just trying to understand why we would use 2c instead of 6a 6b 2b.

And for counter hit 5c in the corner I use.

4080 damage I'm sure there's higher damage combos But this one is consistent with nice rewards

5c (CH) 4d 3c 2b( micro dash if needed) 5c 5d 2c 5d jc jc j2c 5d jc land jc jc j2c > This sets steins perfectly for a 236d that last a while giving time for a mix up that they have to respect at low health ( maybe with exception of ragna and kagura dp needs to be labed... And I'm not fully sure but I think the laser catches rolls and late techs but don't quote me on that.

[pochp]

Tachi 2c is used because we're reffering to the combo you get from 6b starter midscreen on crouching. 6b has smp so you want to avoid using it twice.

Opening people up can be kind of hard. Don't forget about crush trigger, throw, trm, 6b(1)rc2b... Using more frametraps and pressure resets via 236d, 214d, 236a, jump cancels, etc is also part of your options.

[bakahyl]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpY-5ZAPZKM&t=4m

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpY-5ZAPZKM&t=4m47s

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpY-5ZAPZKM&t=28m4s

 

Kinda interesting looking combos

[KonannFriends]

So I've been trying to see how to combo off 6b overhead and 2b during totsuka* laser Oki after the following combos

6b 6c 5d 5c SoD 2b 5c 5d 2c 5d jc jc j2c 5d jc land jc jc j2c totsuka*

CH 5c/6b[1] 4d 3c SoD 2b 5c 5d 2c 5d jc jc j2c 5d jc land jc jc j2c totsuka*

Or 4d (any opener) SoD 2b 5c 5d 2c 5d jc jc j2c 5d jc land jc jc j2c totsuka*

This may be a pain to try to figure out but it would really helpful to me and maybe you if you use this route. I'm trying to do it myself but with work and finals I don't have much time

Also anyone notice 5c 2c 6b always hits 6b[2] and whiffs 6b[1] making it super difficult to see coming because of the huge distance between you abd the oponent

[C0R]

I would HIGHLY not recommend using totsuka at that height. After a simple one-off test of that knockdown, it looks like any character in the game can simply forward roll through the laser, then punish with a free, powerful counterhit into a great corner combo, they can even chose to leave you airbourne. Additionally the final laser bounce can be easily avoided by changing into in airborne move. Ragna for example can do 5c 6d, v13 can do 6b Supra (that's like 6k), izayoi can do 3c FC > 3c, list goes on. On top of that even I'm pretty sure every character could 3c CH -> Crush trigger and the laser would hit them out of the crush trigger recovery, giving them a better-than-optimal confirm.

 

Every oki setup usually has an answer, but normally the worse case scenario means they just have to block a meaty, or are stuck blocking after rolling, being able to punish µ for double the damage of her overhead combo is very risky.

[KonannFriends]

I would HIGHLY not recommend using totsuka at that height. After a simple one-off test of that knockdown, it looks like any character in the game can simply forward roll through the laser, then punish with a free, powerful counterhit into a great corner combo, they can even chose to leave you airbourne. Additionally the final laser bounce can be easily avoided by changing into in airborne move. Ragna for example can do 5c 6d, v13 can do 6b Supra (that's like 6k), izayoi can do 3c FC > 3c, list goes on. On top of that even I'm pretty sure every character could 3c CH -> Crush trigger and the laser would hit them out of the crush trigger recovery, giving them a better-than-optimal confirm.

Every oki setup usually has an answer, but normally the worse case scenario means they just have to block a meaty, or are stuck blocking after rolling, being able to punish µ for double the damage of her overhead combo is very risky.

You know last night after I posted this I watched a match with these same corner combos and I seen that instead of totsuka they just finish with 5d and a falling j2c but I don't get why?

Yes and I do realize the unsafe and negative effects of doing this but I haven't played anyone who has tried to press a button or roll or even dp. But when I facing someone with a dp especially Ragna and kagura I rarely use it. But if it's Terumi or platinum someone without defensive option I abuse it. It is a risk but sometimes scaring the opponent and getting them to respect your aggression is the best.

If it means anything I mixed LordKnight up with it and he BURST!!

Also found this little tech trap thingy and I wanted to see if it worked but I couldn't grab anyone in the corner without them teching it or completely whiffing the grab last night ( Facepalm)

Corner: Grab [soD] 5d 2c 5d jc j2c origins. A laser hits after origins then they tech and then the second laser hits. Is the laser considered meaty or could they dp out? I'm trying to figure out what I should do afterward I'm not competent in these sort of things so I ask for advice

[KonannFriends]

.

[KonannFriends]

Update: so I've still been having trouble opening opponents up and fighting it hard to get any knock down so I've come up with a few strings that may open up the opponent. This are all Middcreen so it's assuming your fighting for momentum.

2b 6a 236a RC Iad jb : this one works pretty well because you have the option to either stay in front or go behind this depending on how you time your iad. So the opponent will have to guess if you'll cross then up or not.

2b 6a 236a RC Ikatuchi (632146b) : For some reason it doesn't whiff on crouching oponents. Crosses up?

5b 2b 5b Tk236a : after this what you do is all up to what your oponent does. Because it's a tk fireball they don't get pushed back much at all. You can read your oponent Or just go for something.

Some of the options would be

2b 5b Tk236a Ikatuchi

2b 5b Tk236a Air Grab

2b 5b Tk236a 3c

2b 5b Tk236a Gaurd Crush

2b 5b Tk236a Dash up Dp Bait( be ready to tech grabs)

Beware though this is not safe mixup

Other things you could do is

2b tick 2b tick 5b Tk236a 6b : perfect spacing for 6b to Rock your oponent

And Lastly

2b 5b sjjc falling j2c/jc/ jb

I'm working on some corner stuff. And at the moment not implementing steins into pressure.

Edit: 5b 2b 5b string does not work on barrier you'll just have to use 2b 5b

[bakahyl]

Wait... i am pretty sure that the aerial habaya has a horrible recovery in cp.

 

edit:

The air version has more startup (not including the time to jump) and slightly more recovery than the ground version. So i am not sure if that is very effective

[C0R]

5b is level 3, having 16 frames of blockstun.

 

Tk habaya is 30f startup + 4f jump, so you're looking at an 18f gap before the ball even comes out.

 

That's enough time for every character in the game to 5c CH you for massive damage miscreen.

 

tk habaya used to be really good, but then they deliberately nerfed it and it has been extremely bad since.

[KonannFriends]

5b is level 3, having 16 frames of blockstun.

Tk habaya is 30f startup + 4f jump, so you're looking at an 18f gap before the ball even comes out.

That's enough time for every character in the game to 5c CH you for massive damage miscreen.

tk habaya used to be really good, but then they deliberately nerfed it and it has been extremely bad since.

Guys you gotta stop over thinking..... I know Mu has reletavly safe pressure but I like to be different

[someonewhodied]

I got a nice stack of combos. Expect a cmv from me soon

 

(i might have stolen parts of combos from here and there )

[C0R]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZYvKlIdLZc&feature=youtu.be

 

easy bnb's

[Nemesis]

Opening people up can be kind of hard. Don't forget about crush trigger, throw, trm, 6b(1)rc2b... Using more frametraps and pressure resets via 236d, 214d, 236a, jump cancels, etc is also part of your options.

with all the fuss of learning and unlearning New Mu I legit completely forgot about that option - Thanks Poncho!

[bakahyl]

 Don't forget about ... 6b(1)rc2b...

Depending on the distance, can 6b(2) RC 2b work? since the first hit of 6b is no longer an overhead, i had times when i RC'd too soon and the opponent was still crouching on 6b (1) and wasted 50 meter because i would have hit them if i didn't RC.

[KonannFriends]

O fought a Mu who spammed 5d 6d totsuka . that shit hella annoying

[C0R]

Every go watch HH's video for some new corner stuff, I posted it in the combo thread.

[KonannFriends]

Having a little trouble beating Ragna at nuetral. I would think he would be easy to deal with since I find Jin easy to keep away and lock down.

I can't really say Why I'm losing but if you guys have any tips on things to look out for ... Aka things ragna players abuse or try to bully with that can be punished heavily by Mu or even slightly.

I have noticed that using some of his own tactics against him work. Such as using 2a and 5b to anti if they trying to space there jump in. Run up dps. Mash 5a out of pressure instead of 2b or 2a.

Also I could easily try this but myself but it a dp vs dp situation.

Does Mu vs Ragnas Dp

A.Clash letting them both dp again

B.Clash leaving Ragna at a disadvantAge

C.Clash leaving Mu at a disadvantage

D.Clash both oponents get hit.

I trying to end a ragna by dp while he was in the corner but I got TKorigins instead of grounded version and his dp beat it. But a friend told me my aerial dp has less invincible frames than her grounded version.

[Nemesis]

Having a little trouble beating Ragna at nuetral. I would think he would be easy to deal with since I find Jin easy to keep away and lock down.

I can't really say Why I'm losing but if you guys have any tips on things to look out for ... Aka things ragna players abuse or try to bully with that can be punished heavily by Mu or even slightly.

I have noticed that using some of his own tactics against him work. Such as using 2a and 5b to anti if they trying to space there jump in. Run up dps. Mash 5a out of pressure instead of 2b or 2a.

Also I could easily try this but myself but it a dp vs dp situation.

Does Mu vs Ragnas Dp

A.Clash letting them both dp again

B.Clash leaving Ragna at a disadvantAge

C.Clash leaving Mu at a disadvantage

D.Clash both oponents get hit.

I trying to end a ragna by dp while he was in the corner but I got TKorigins instead of grounded version and his dp beat it. But a friend told me my aerial dp has less invincible frames than her grounded version.

mashing 5a/2a during Ragna pressure is a sure fire way to eat his favorite mixup - Gauntlet Hades or 2d

2a and 5b are both terrible choices to defeat Ragna Jump-ins - assuming I understood you correctly - 6a is mindbogglingly safer and have a nice recovery

Aggressive dashing DPs with Mu is infinitely more risky in this version than it has ever been before due to stein nerfs - It can be done effectively but  as an expert in doing it myself even I do it far less than before. The reward is rather minimal and the risk is tremendous w/o heat, this is something you shouldnt do without extensive mastery of the timing/input speed and ability to read your opponents compulsive mid-game behavior 

 

Mu Dp Will beat Ragna DP if you execute it enough times - usually x2-3 is all youll need to beat a Ragna player's auto 623c inputs but it requires you to be ready - in the case of a clash war, Ragna ID will eventually put him above mu-12 thus making his DP mash impossible and he will fall into ours - not an easy thing to master in live games

 

I dont know about invul frames but J.DP should work vs Ragna ID the same assuming your timing isnt off

 

As for tips - always be 100% all the time aware that Ragna can and will cancel his normals into Gauntlet Hades for the easy mixup, see that coming and blocking it is fairly essential. And watch out for Ragna players that love to mash their J.aaaaaaa on you in the air - especially if they are below you or have you in the corner and your focusing on trying to escape. Not to mention Ragna players may often opt for 5a as their antiair/cross up defense so if your fighting someone like that make sure your spacing is good with j2c's or jbs, dont jump in with Jc unless you really know your shit. Ragna players also like to reset their pressure with bloodscythe or deadspike when they have been pressuring you and been pushed back to the appropriate range - due to their start up both of these options of theirs can be punished or provide you with an avenue for escape - but due to Ragna enjoying near limitless gatling in this version observing his cancels to punish/escape is almost entirely based upon the habits of the player using him... not to mention his sped up 6b...

 

Keeping a clear head when cornered is absolutely essential and its important to note that despite Ragna's great normals and good pressure game he still has to respect our wake up. This can lead out to many different scenarios :

 

They disrespect the wake up by trying to meaty/mash on us and get DP'd / you observe the habit and DP them later for it

 

They respect the wake up and keep their distance - usually right inside of our 5c range (but possibly their 5b range) - time your wake ups carefully!

 

One of my favorite techniques to squashing opponents corner pressure is to quick tech/neutral tech with careful timing and dash the DP into their waiting block (as players often like to stand right out side of DP range) RC Cross up and put them on the defensive. Not an easy maneuver ! But it is fairly doable and there isnt alot they can do about it on reaction

[KonannFriends]

I remember seeing you play in 1.1 and your wake up dp and supers always seemed weird. It looked like you slid forward then dp or super. I even saw you do things like wakeup dash up 2b . I'm guessing you do something like 6623c or 6632146c

Oh and yes 2a Is a terrible choice to anti air I meant that I mash 2a before someone can land. And on the 5b anti air it's super risky and has turned out horrible sometimes but works for me because I consider myself and expert at judging jump ins ( playing amane in 1.1 really helped)

Also how come no one mentioned how good 5d>6d and 4d>2d totsuka formation are. Makes the hazama matchup a piece of cake. And complete covers the air or ground depending on which one you use