[CP] News and Gameplay Discussion 2.0

[RurouniLoneWolf]

BananaKen actually did a write up/wrote his thoughts about Kokonoe's 2.0 graviton regeneration changes here in her gameplay thread

 

The biggest issue with its current regeneration really is that it doesn't save progress to the next graviton the way Rachel wind works. For example, if it takes 6 seconds to regenerate a graviton and 5 seconds into regenerating a graviton you decide to place one, then not only will you lose the graviton you place, you'll also lose the progress to the next graviton as well.

 

I think Kokonoe is still a strong character but this change really does make her closer to characters like Rachel and Carl in terms of how demanding she is to play in terms of efficiency, which unfortunately translates to the number of people capable of using her effectively at higher levels of play being very few and far in between. Or at least, that's how I feel when I watch Saki play Kokonoe in 2.0.

[Dreiko]

BananaKen actually did a write up/wrote his thoughts about Kokonoe's 2.0 graviton regeneration changes here in her gameplay thread

 

The biggest issue with its current regeneration really is that it doesn't save progress to the next graviton the way Rachel wind works. For example, if it takes 6 seconds to regenerate a graviton and 5 seconds into regenerating a graviton you decide to place one, then not only will you lose the graviton you place, you'll also lose the progress to the next graviton as well.

 

I think Kokonoe is still a strong character but this change really does make her closer to characters like Rachel and Carl in terms of how demanding she is to play in terms of efficiency, which unfortunately translates to the number of people capable of using her effectively at higher levels of play being very few and far in between. Or at least, that's how I feel when I watch Saki play Kokonoe in 2.0.

I would argue her graviton-less tools are FAR superior to Rachel without wind and definitely Carl without Nirvana therefore she is not quite as demanding as those two since she still can do a lot of stuff without gravitons. She's just not top tier without them and limiting them limits how long she can be top tier but when you have someone like Valk or Arakune in the game, making an issue about how Kokonoe plays without her drive makes no sense. They are far worse off than she is. It's as though you're coming from a place of thinking of Kokonoe as being entitled to being perpetually top tier. It's like people really thought Kokonoe was supposed to be how she was in 1.0/1.1 and that nothing was off about that, which ignores the majority of the rest of the characters and how they were.

 

 

Paying attention to how much she was nerfed isn't gonna tell you how good she is now, it's just gonna tell you how good she was before she was nerfed. It's not the only possibility that she is bad, she could still be plenty good while not being top tier even with all those new drawbacks. There's not just S tier and D tier and while you do say she's a strong character I fear that your following point somewhat detracts from that message which I believe ought to be front and center. As for fewer people being able to use her properly, that also has little to do with anything so it's irrelevant. Sadly, there's some bad chars (like Arakune) who are very weird to use while Ragna and Jin seem super top tier in cp2 and they also are the most beginner-friendly of the cast.

 

 

Ultimately, my point I guess is that Kokonoe will just have to be a regular character and that there's nothing wrong about that. If people wanna drop her because of that then it's their prerogative but I think they should still be able to win with her now if they won with her in the past. It will just take more effort.

[Tong]

Haha this reminds me when Elphelt players thought her Berry Pine nerfs were going to make her shit

And we're hearing the same thing with Kokonoe's Gravtions.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Haha this reminds me when Elphelt players thought her Berry Pine nerfs were going to make her shit

And we're hearing the same thing with Kokonoe's Gravtions.

 

 

To be fair, Xrd 1.1 wasn't out yet and its onlt been out for about a week now.

 

We've had plenty of months of 2.0 Kokonoe by comparison. I haven't really seen as much of her.

[D.R.F.]

Terumi on the other hand is like an annoying fly. You just kind of wait around holding down-back and he eventually goes away.

It's been a tough few days, and I needed to read this <3

[StylisH]

Haha this reminds me when Elphelt players thought her Berry Pine nerfs were going to make her shit

And we're hearing the same thing with Kokonoe's Gravtions.

 

I never said it would make her terrible.  I did, however state that her Graviton regen was a joke.  Not even a funny one.

[someonewhodied]

While the regen itself is a joke, having 9 stocks means you can easily push for game when you need to now.

 

A big issue with kokonoe currently is that her highest damage combo off of a reasonable confirm requires 3 graviton and activations. The meter doesn't regen fast enough for that unless you start with max graviton meter.

(1 graviton hit, 2 fireball launches)

 

Shes gonna be able to push for game a lot more easily now.

[Airk]

While the regen itself is a joke, having 9 stocks means you can easily push for game when you need to now.

What the heck does "Push for game" mean?

A big issue with kokonoe currently is that her highest damage combo off of a reasonable confirm requires 3 graviton and activations. The meter doesn't regen fast enough for that unless you start with max graviton meter.

(1 graviton hit, 2 fireball launches)

Why is this a problem, exactly? There are lots of characters in the game who can't get max damage off a "reasonable confirm" without some sort of resource. It's, y'know, the price you pay for having a drive that lets you do amazing stuff, instead of, say, a drive that forces you to precisely time your D Presses. :P

Shes gonna be able to push for game a lot more easily now.

Still don't know what this means...

[RurouniLoneWolf]

-snip-

 

...Okay.

1) I don't even play Kokonoe. Why would I even care whether she's top tier, especially when I don't care about tiers at all?

2) I can't speak for Carl but I don't know if you're underestimating what Rachel can get done without wind or if you're overestimating what Kokonoe can do without her drive but to be honest, their performance without using wind/graviton is more or less comparable, definitely not a huge difference that you're trying to imply.  

3) The difference between characters like Rachel and Carl and characters like Valk and Arakune is pretty huge in their reward for having their resources. Valk having full wolf meter and Arakune putting you in curse, dramatically improve their performance as a character and they were clearly designed to be as proportionally ineffective as characters without wolf meter/curse to compensate. On the other hand, Rachel having all her wind or Nirvana's meter being full doesn't mean anything really. What Rachel has on screen and her positioning relative to her opponent/Carl and Nirvana's Positioning relative to their opponents are just as important as having their resources.

4) My followup point to Kokonoe is still strong doesn't detract from anything. The only thing it does is give a better idea of why people don't see footage of Kokonoe doing well often and gives people who plan to play her in 2.0 fair warning about what they should expect in terms of difficulty to play Kokonoe.  

 

5) Overall, I didn't really care for how much you implied that 1.1 Kokonoe was still a broken character in this post. 1.1 Kokonoe was strong but not that strong.

And now that I've been reminded why I don't really like reading or posting in this thread, I'll be exiting stage right. Have a nice day ^,^

[Errol]

do you really play Rachel?

[mAc Chaos]

On the other hand, Rachel having all her wind or Nirvana's meter being full doesn't mean anything really. What Rachel has on screen and her positioning relative to her opponent/Carl and Nirvana's Positioning relative to their opponents are just as important as having their resources.

Neither of them can do squat without their resources.

[Errol]

I really just want to point to the fact that Rachel has almost entirely buffed except for Wind, and even wind, the regen is not nerfed unless you go above 2 bars of wind. But she dropped hard and fast in tiers. There is a very specific reason for that, and it's wind.

[someonewhodied]

I really just want to point to the fact that Rachel has almost entirely buffed except for Wind, and even wind, the regen is not nerfed unless you go above 2 bars of wind. But she dropped hard and fast in tiers. There is a very specific reason for that, and it's wind.

J.A got buffed?

Kappa

[Errol]

J.A got buffed?

Kappa

 

 

j.A has longer recovery, but that doesn't matter in pressure. In pressure if you land j.A>j.B>dash 5CC you get a longer/better combo than in CP1.1. Dash 5c is hard but N-O can do it.

 

buffs are mostly that Rachel has more combo routes, more corner carry, all generally for less wind than in CP1.1 

[LaowPing]

Now, saying that CS1 Tager or CS1 Tsubaki are better and superior characters in general than CS1 Valkenhayn or CS1 Makoto is not an opinion, it's just a completely wrong fact. Characters are considered weak or strong because of actual facts, and not opinions. Who state these facts? Usually players that understand or/and play the game, and because they're knowledgeable about the game they have more or less the right to judge who's strong or weak, simply put..

Hate to get into semantics here but whenever you use the word "better" to describe anything you are stating a opinion, not a fact. If it's an opinion everyone agrees with then it's called a consensus.

 

Also, koko still looks strong. Every time I see her get a hit it's 3k plus the corner, into oki. Maybe I'm watching different match videos or something.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Hate to get into semantics here but whenever you use the word "better" to describe anything you are stating a opinion, not a fact. If it's an opinion everyone agrees with then it's called a consensus.

 

 

 

 

If Character A does an average of 3k, while Character B is doing 2k. I don't think Character A  doing more damage is simply an "opinion" lol. If there's clear evidence to the contrary, then yes, characters can be better than others.

[LaowPing]

If Character A does an average of 3k, while Character B is doing 2k. I don't think Character A  doing more damage is simply an "opinion" lol. If there's clear evidence to the contrary, then yes, characters can be better than others.

It's still an opinion. It's a opinion supported by facts, but it's still an opinion.

[chzchan]

Hate to get into semantics here but whenever you use the word "better" to describe anything you are stating a opinion, not a fact. If it's an opinion everyone agrees with then it's called a consensus.

Also, koko still looks strong. Every time I see her get a hit it's 3k plus the corner, into oki. Maybe I'm watching different match videos or something.

I'm no Koko main but I do watch Matoi's match videos quite often. It just seems like she is somewhat restricted now, that's all. Not up to date with more subtle Koko changes since I probably can't see them, but did they change the properties of her godlike normals at all?

[someonewhodied]

I'm no Koko main but I do watch Matoi's match videos quite often. It just seems like she is somewhat restricted now, that's all. Not up to date with more subtle Koko changes since I probably can't see them, but did they change the properties of her godlike normals at all?

 

Her normals got buffed. Her graviton got buffed. The only nerfs were teleport not being frame 1 invul, regeneration of graviton, and black hole losing invul.

 

Shes still godlike, shes just not easy.

[mAc Chaos]

No picture posts.

[Airk]

If Character A does an average of 3k, while Character B is doing 2k. I don't think Character A  doing more damage is simply an "opinion" lol. If there's clear evidence to the contrary, then yes, characters can be better than others.

 

But you'll notice that you didn't use the word "Better"; You used "More damage."

 

"Better" is almost always subjective.

 

For example, it's easy to say that a character does "more damage" from a given starter, but "Better damage overall" is much more subjective.

[Dreiko]

It's still an opinion. It's a opinion supported by facts, but it's still an opinion.

Contrary to popular belief, opinions have tiers too. Fact based opinions are superior to purely emotional ones. Opinions based on reality matter more when tackled from a corporeal angle.

[D.R.F.]

Contrary to popular belief, opinions have tiers too. Fact based opinions are superior to purely emotional ones. Opinions based on reality matter more when tackled from a corporeal angle.

Facts bby. Ye

[Sonicboom]

Contrary to popular belief, opinions have tiers too. Fact based opinions are superior to purely emotional ones. Opinions based on reality matter more when tackled from a corporeal angle.

what

[kosmos badgirl]

Any news from Mori on the streaming that ASW is doing right now?.