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HeWhoRocksAlot

[Xrd] Tier Discussion

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No, but at the same time, I seriously cannot find a reason to justify Venom being in a lower tier than hers.

Well, that's why the tier list is made by top Japanese players who have been playing the game for 11 months non-stop.

Some JP players (Ruu, Satou) can handle English & have Twitter, so that's an option to pick their brain.

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I was talking with satou and he said venom has bad matchups against the s tiers and that ino does pretty good against s tier. So that may have factored in.
We weren't comparing ino and venom or anything, just chatting, so take it with a grain of salt.

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I was talking with satou and he said venom has bad matchups against the s tiers and that ino does pretty good against s tier. So that may have factored in.

We weren't comparing ino and venom or anything, just chatting, so take it with a grain or salt.

Considering the top tier is all setplay and bullshit mixups and Venom has no reversal or poke faster than 5f, that sounds about right.

Daiandoh yelling YOU DONE FUCKED UP YOU LOSE NOW whenever I get hit by Millia is pretty funny though.

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Been declining to post these last few pages lol.

 

 

I was talking with satou and he said venom has bad matchups against the s tiers and that ino does pretty good against s tier. So that may have factored in.
We weren't comparing ino and venom or anything, just chatting, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

This. Millia and Chipp are always bad for Venom, Zato usually isn't too hot either (significantly bad in #R, AC, and Xrd), and Ramlethal is also pretty bad too. I feel like Sol is difficult, but this maybe more on me, he's probably closer to like Faust vs Venom where it's not an overwhelming disadvantage,.

 

Considering the top tier is all setplay and bullshit mixups and Venom has no reversal or poke faster than 5f, that sounds about right.

Daiandoh yelling YOU DONE FUCKED UP YOU LOSE NOW whenever I get hit by Millia is pretty funny though.

 

Outside of Faust, but yes.

 

And because that's Venom life Justice.  :toot:

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What happened to May? Wasn't she regarded as a pretty strong character?

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What happened to May? Wasn't she regarded as a pretty strong character?

I asked this a while ago, the answer was pretty much that everything she does well, someone else does better and that most of her decent bnbs need meter.

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Been declining to post these last few pages lol.

This. Millia and Chipp are always bad for Venom, Zato usually isn't too hot either (significantly bad in #R, AC, and Xrd), and Ramlethal is also pretty bad too. I feel like Sol is difficult, but this maybe more on me, he's probably closer to like Faust vs Venom where it's not an overwhelming disadvantage,.

Outside of Faust, but yes.

And because that's Venom life Justice. :toot:

So what ARE his good matchups then outside of bottom tier? Seems all his matchups vs top tier are terrible and none of his matchups vs mid tier are particularly overwhelmingly in his favor. Doesn't really sound like A tier material to me.

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Been declining to post these last few pages lol.

This. Millia and Chipp are always bad for Venom, Zato usually isn't too hot either (significantly bad in #R, AC, and Xrd), and Ramlethal is also pretty bad too. I feel like Sol is difficult, but this maybe more on me, he's probably closer to like Faust vs Venom where it's not an overwhelming disadvantage,.

Outside of Faust, but yes.

And because that's Venom life Justice. :toot:

As for Ino, her only bad matchups with the S tier characters are Faust (4-6). Everyone else is pure 5-5. I would argue she having a slight advantage over Eddie (5.5-4.5), but it's Eddie so just pretend it's really 5-5.

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So what ARE his good matchups then outside of bottom tier? Seems all his matchups vs top tier are terrible and none of his matchups vs mid tier are particularly overwhelmingly in his favor. Doesn't really sound like A tier material to me.

 

Ky and Sin might be in his favor!  I-No is about even, I think he fights Elphelt, Faust, and Sol decently well, even if it's disadvantage.

 

And he has advantage I think on everyone in B and below (unless you put Chipp in B...). So basically:

 

Beats B/C tier.

Goes even or does well with some of A tier (Ky, I-No, and Sin if you put him there)

Loses to everyone else in varying degrees.

 

I don't like matchup numbers so much these days, rather would just explain more about matchups themselves.

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I was declining to share my view on Leo until I played more people, and my views are still tentative since I've only played some netplay and had one offline meetup since getting back to New York (after playing pretty much only the Millia matchup for a month straight), but I thought I'd just post my thoughts here since people were asking where he stands.

 

Leo wrecks people who don't know the matchup, but once you learn it he just folds. When he enters stance right next to you he is decently strong, at least until you FD and push him out and he's forced to do stupid risky stuff again to get back in. He has really bad hurtboxes on his pokes and so a lot of his normals are free to low profile and disjointed hitboxes. He's really not mobile at all either so that isn't helping. Out of stance he has no standing overheads outside of dust, which has decent startup and is only -1 but has terrible range and doesn't gatling from 5H (which vacuums), so it's kind of bad. So in regular mode Leo is just all frame traps. Even then some of his pressure strings are throwable on reaction, and if he transitions to stance on block he's -3 (regardless of if he uses 5/6H).

 

5H, j.K and j,H are decent normals with kind of slow startup but they're still pretty good. He has a bunch of pretty average normals and then some really terrible ones. His greatest asset is probably just damage and the fear that comes along with the threat of damage, he also has 1.00 defense and Potemkin guts so I guess Leo can just go nuts and take big risks and hope you fold under the stress.

 

All in all I think Leo is trash. I don't think he has any matchup he wins (except maybe Slayer), and he has maybe only very few (if any) even matchups. I'd probably rank him around Pot/Axl/Slayer, but I'm still a little iffy on his exact strength relative to the cast.

 

Edit: Stance super (the projectile) is really really really good though (5+0). It's probably his best move and a big threat in the neutral game from any range if he's in stance.

 

Edit again: I said he has no safe way to transition into stance in pressure, but there is one little really glitchy thing which I haven't been able to get to work consistently where sometimes the cross up dash special (236H) done after 5H doesn't have the lengthy run through animation and instead becomes a true block string (removing its weakness of being throwable). So if somebody figures out how to do that consistently then that'll be a safer way to transition into stance on block (+1)

 

Disclaimer: I didn't go check up on my frame data and this is all off the top of my head so.

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His hurtboxes may be bad but his abare is good. He probably gets more damage off his random long range pokes than any other character in the game. He might lose to shit like Venom 2S or Sol f.S but those characters aren't gonna get much off those pokes even if they win the trade with them.

On the other hand Leo gets an absurd amount of damage off CH or crouch confirm f.S. Maybe not as much as Ram doing f.S Dauro but either way I'd be wary of trading 2S vs. Leo f.S if it means I get 20 damage on my hit and he gets like 200.

Also Siegesparade is crazy good.

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What do you mean? If you happen to hold back or down while dashing with Leo, it will stop your momentum.

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You get most of the forward movement out of it unless you FD-brake or or input a move. It's not like he continues to move forward if you hold forward. It's not long enough to get a full charge, but it's most of a charge.

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What happened to May? Wasn't she regarded as a pretty strong character?

 

No, she is ok, but far from being "pretty strong" like some players used to believe (and argue) before. Basically she is good but A/S tiers just do almost everything better than her.

 

 

What do you mean? If you happen to hold back or down while dashing with Leo, it will stop your momentum.

You can actually do charge motions while dashing by just avoiding neutral (5) *Is not useful at all since you will probably get hit most of the time before finishing your charge*. :toot:

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Yeah I know that you can hold 3 to charge down while running but like you say it's pretty risky. I did run a few tests to see how much charge we can get in Leo's dash, his charges looks to be 40f and his dash his around 25f total (I counted 17f of active dash and 8f of glide), so I guess we can get about half a charge during it. 

 

But what I should have said is that if players used this, would it make Leo really that much better?

His charge moves aren't that strong in neutral, the only thing I would be interested in charging like this is to go for a fireball S YRC, but if I need to stop for like 20f after the dash that's not really good, I could do dash~4P~4K~fireball S (5P~5K chains on whiff) but that's a long time going forward while not blocking.

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I still think leo has some latent strength that i at least havent seen leo players using. For now ive stopped playing xrd because the scene seems to have disolved out here in perth and the internet is trash when your connect is less than 2mb.

Having said that i did get a couple offline meets when i was playing leo, he does seem overall to fair, but i still found some latent strength in his moveset:

Basically his S fireball is really good as a poke. Its got more range than most far S slashes (way more) and comparable speed. His [4]6S yrc is crazy good. Most leos i see (all actually) are trying to abuse [4]6H instead... But i feel like the fundamental power is in his S fireball when used from the right ranges.

I see backturned stance as wholly something to be used on oki or at far ranges from the opponent for the reflect.

But his yrc game is rather good. His S fireball has 2 hits so it can destroy most 1 hit fireballs and leo can advance on the opponent with charge voa wiffing 5K

None of this makes leo godlike, but he DOES have tools, neutral game ones at that. I think leo is going to be hard for people to pickup that want a blockstring mixup character. He doesnt have the greatest high/low game. And i also think leo is kinda hard countered by projectiles that cant be reflected (rams and elphs projectiles as an example) but other than those things, leo is poised to be a decent character.

Tldr, people need to throw way more fireballs with this guy.

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I still think leo has some latent strength that i at least havent seen leo players using. For now ive stopped playing xrd because the scene seems to have disolved out here in perth and the internet is trash when your connect is less than 2mb.

Having said that i did get a couple offline meets when i was playing leo, he does seem overall to fair, but i still found some latent strength in his moveset:

Basically his S fireball is really good as a poke. Its got more range than most far S slashes (way more) and comparable speed. His [4]6S yrc is crazy good. Most leos i see (all actually) are trying to abuse [4]6H instead... But i feel like the fundamental power is in his S fireball when used from the right ranges.

I see backturned stance as wholly something to be used on oki or at far ranges from the opponent for the reflect.

But his yrc game is rather good. His S fireball has 2 hits so it can destroy most 1 hit fireballs and leo can advance on the opponent with charge voa wiffing 5K

None of this makes leo godlike, but he DOES have tools, neutral game ones at that. I think leo is going to be hard for people to pickup that want a blockstring mixup character. He doesnt have the greatest high/low game. And i also think leo is kinda hard countered by projectiles that cant be reflected (rams and elphs projectiles as an example) but other than those things, leo is poised to be a decent character.

Tldr, people need to throw way more fireballs with this guy.

 

Anji in AC had great tools too, and well, that didn't turn out too well for him either.  Just saying.

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Honestly, I love Guilty Gear Xrd. But I hardly even see the point of tiers at this point as they decided to take out all the characters! I would never be able to justify that.

 

The game is great but taking out all of the characters that we love was really a big mistake. I hope everyone that was taken out is included in a future update and soon, as it will give players time to practice before Evo comes around, as GG is a main game once again, and I hope it stays that way indefinitely.

 

GG is way better than any of the other games featured on there and completely blows blazblue out of the water. GG is the best fighter and one of the best games ever made.

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Honestly, I love Guilty Gear Xrd. But I hardly even see the point of tiers at this point as they decided to take out all the characters! I would never be able to justify that.

 

The game is great but taking out all of the characters that we love was really a big mistake. I hope everyone that was taken out is included in a future update and soon, as it will give players time to practice before Evo comes around, as GG is a main game once again, and I hope it stays that way indefinitely.

 

GG is way better than any of the other games featured on there and completely blows blazblue out of the water. GG is the best fighter and one of the best games ever made.

We usually refrain from posts like this, just a friendly heads up :V

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That last part is completely irrelevant and entirely subjective.

Also, the fact that they removed characters doesn't make tiers any less relevant for the characters still in the game.

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Honestly, I love Guilty Gear Xrd. But I hardly even see the point of tiers at this point as they decided to take out all the characters! I would never be able to justify that.

 

The game is great but taking out all of the characters that we love was really a big mistake. I hope everyone that was taken out is included in a future update and soon, as it will give players time to practice before Evo comes around, as GG is a main game once again, and I hope it stays that way indefinitely.

 

GG is way better than any of the other games featured on there and completely blows blazblue out of the water. GG is the best fighter and one of the best games ever made.

 

Oh shit! 

 

Dizzy made a DL account!

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So, what characters does everyone feel have potential in 1.1 from seeing the current changes? I think Sin is looking absolutely terrifying with a much better 623S and jump-cancellable 6P. I can't comment on the others because I don't play them.

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