[Xrd] Tier Discussion

[Synyster17]

i think sin got a bit better. i personally feel top 3 will be faust millia and elp cause others got hit harder. i think everything will kind of stay the same but idk its just a loke test so not much thought should be put into right now. no final changes

[mAceOfHearts]

So, what characters does everyone feel have potential in 1.1 from seeing the current changes? I think Sin is looking absolutely terrifying with a much better 623S and jump-cancellable 6P. I can't comment on the others because I don't play them.

Leo's [4]6S becoming fullscreen might make some of his MUs a lot easier to deal with. He'll do a lot better against zoning Kys, that's for sure.

[HardSlash]

Ky's looking sexy.

[SoWL]

Elphelt got hit much harder than everyone thinks because of the grenade alone. I actually think that Zato ended up better than everyone expected, though the BS change might be his biggest nerf (with the same going for Millia). For now, if I were to pick new top tiers, I'd choose Faust and I-No, with the rest of the old top being up in the air.

[D.R.F.]

Grenade nerf hurts, no lie about that, but she has the normals and specials so that she will be fine otherwise. Everybody cheered(me included) when berry pine got nerfed, but we all forgot that Elphelt has ridiculous shotgun damage, oppressive shotgun pressure, a way to counter zone with miss confire, and a scream-inducing 2S, along with all the other stuff that makes her great.

Elphelt will be fine.

[Guilty_X]

We usually refrain from posts like this, just a friendly heads up :V

Posts like this? That doesn't make any sense. This is tier discussion and Guilty Gear discussion and I am discussing the tiers. Unfortunately in this game they took out all the characters! So you really only need three tiers now. S tier, and 'everyone else' tier. And then Potemkin tier. That's it

[SoWL]

I am discussing the tiers.

Broad subjective statements that cannot be supported or refuted can hardly be considered "Discussion". Not to mention that your main gripe is not the tiers, but the roster and the characters that are missing, and this is not the place to discuss it.

[FinalDoomGuy]

Posts like this? That doesn't make any sense. This is tier discussion and Guilty Gear discussion and I am discussing the tiers. Unfortunately in this game they took out all the characters! So you really only need three tiers now. S tier, and 'everyone else' tier. And then Potemkin tier. That's it

Yeah, it was really weird how they shipped a fighter with literally no characters. I mean, SF2 had 8 but ArcSys is taking the piss

Johnny and Dizzy will most likely be added in next, don't be shitposting because you're missing your favourite character or whatever

[StylisH]

Grenade nerf hurts, no lie about that, but she has the normals and specials so that she will be fine otherwise. Everybody cheered(me included) when berry pine got nerfed, but we all forgot that Elphelt has ridiculous shotgun damage, oppressive shotgun pressure, a way to counter zone with miss confire, and a scream-inducing 2S, along with all the other stuff that makes her great.

Elphelt will be fine.

 

So do you believe she will drop a tier? 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

Her neutral is definitely hurt by the nerf, but Zato and Ramlethal are out of S tier at the moment.

 

That leaves Faust, Millia, Chipp, Elphelt, and possibly I-no as the current top 5 of the loketest.

[StylisH]

Her neutral is definitely hurt by the nerf, but Zato and Ramlethal are out of S tier at the moment.

 

That leaves Faust, Millia, Chipp, Elphelt, and possibly I-no as the current top 5 of the loketest.

 

Being biased of course, I would welcome I-No into the hate fest that is S-tier

[Justice7541]

Losing meaty VCL safejump hurts her a lot. Makes it a lot easier to take on a guess on a wakeup blitz vs her oki and actually win. Of course she can call it out but that's still not as good as just being 100% blitz-safe like it is now.

[mynus]

Losing meaty VCL safejump hurts her a lot. Makes it a lot easier to take on a guess on a wakeup blitz vs her oki and actually win. Of course she can call it out but that's still not as good as just being 100% blitz-safe like it is now.

Note oki is safe from blitz. You can be near death before you even get 25% meter.

[StylisH]

I-No can blow up wakeup BS so bad tho

[GKHiryu]

Her neutral is definitely hurt by the nerf, but Zato and Ramlethal are out of S tier at the moment.

 

That leaves Faust, Millia, Chipp, Elphelt, and possibly I-no as the current top 5 of the loketest.

Zato out of S? How so? I get it that he got a few adjustments, but they hardly qualify as "nerfs". Even if puddles are not as good he still gets a lot out of every drill.

[Angry Guy of DE]

Zato will likely still be very good, he just has to pay more attention to the Eddie gauge and will have more time without Eddie due to cooldown changes.

I think that most people are lead to believe that every Zato is Ogawa and is incredibly afraid of the character when they see it.

Elphelt will go down a little bit in the list.  The grenade change will make most Yolo Elphelts get wrecked when they can't simply throw a grenade and do risky mix-ups knowing that the grenade will cover most attempts at a punish.  The attack level change to far Slash will limit her Bridal Express spaced pressure since the range that makes it plus will now make it blitz shield bait and get her punished.

[StylisH]

Zato will likely still be very good, he just has to pay more attention to the Eddie gauge and will have more time without Eddie due to cooldown changes.

I think that most people are lead to believe that every Zato is Ogawa and is incredibly afraid of the character when they see it.

Elphelt will go down a little bit in the list.  The grenade change will make most Yolo Elphelts get wrecked when they can't simply throw a grenade and do risky mix-ups knowing that the grenade will cover most attempts at a punish.  The attack level change to far Slash will limit her Bridal Express spaced pressure since the range that makes it plus will now make it blitz shield bait and get her punished.

 

You ain't just whistlin' Dixie

[nyyyyy]

Zato will likely still be very good, he just has to pay more attention to the Eddie gauge and will have more time without Eddie due to cooldown changes.

I think that most people are lead to believe that every Zato is Ogawa and is incredibly afraid of the character when they see it.

 

A tier list is supposed to rank a characters potential. Just because the majority of Zato players isnt capable of exploiting his ridiculous tools it doesnt make him anything but S tier.

[dehumanizer]

A tier list is supposed to rank a characters potential. Just because the majority of Zato players isnt capable of exploiting his ridiculous tools it doesnt make him anything but S tier.

As a counter example to your argument, FAB makes Pot look higher than he actually is, but that isn't the case. There may be more to tier lists than just character potential.

[Destin]

No fab really doesn't make pot look good. Fab makes fab look good. When I see him play that character, the character still looks like a pile of junk.

[SoWL]

This is getting silly.

No one can play Zato to his full potential but Ogawa = character is god tier, Ogawa is just a best example of what he can do.

No one can play Pot to his full potential but FAB = character is bottom tier, the only reason FAB is winning is because he's FAB.

Well maybe FAB wouldn't be able to win at all if Pot is that bad? Maybe people are just biased towards Zato because he's been consistently powerful over multiple versions of the game? Or maybe tier lists are not just about this "potential" that people can't even see unless someone actually uses it?

[Justice7541]

No fab really doesn't make pot look good. Fab makes fab look good. When I see him play that character, the character still looks like a pile of junk.

Maybe Pot actually is that good and you're just bad at him.

[DaiAndOh]

Ask FAB or any other strong JP player how good Pot is....

[rubedo777]

So with all the buffs to Slayer and Bedman, I'm surprised one of them aren't in the top 5...

 

Any comments from top JPN Bedman players, like Tsubu?

[SoWL]

So with all the buffs to Slayer and Bedman, I'm surprised one of them aren't in the top 5...

 

Any comments from top JPN Bedman players, like Tsubu?

Here's Tsubu's Twitter, but it seems like he doesn't write there too often.

https://twitter.com/busterskawasemi