Baiken vs Faust

[Yurlungur]

I have been playing GG for a looong time and I have the basics down and what not. I finally settled on Baiken to use after a long winning streak with HOS. Really, I'm looking for how Baiken can beat a Defensive Faust! I have a couple of strong players on my team (a Zappa player and a Faust) The Faust player just recently picked up a defensive turtle[ing] play style. My air game was blown all to hell because of Faust's ridiculous j.hs. His What's Next? and Scalpel stabs keep me too far to do anything. My only advantage is that when he gets offensive, I can punish him for being huge. Otherwise I'm stuck pushing him into the corner while dodging What's Next? and Scalpel stabs. His grab game is the worst thing I've ever seen. If your within the range, he'll throw you. I've never seen anything like it (actually I have quite often but he's the only one I've seen do it). Any tips on character specific playing tips for Baiken are what I want. Just I really, REALLY, want to find out how to beat Faust!

[tolore]

One thing to keep in mind is 2.d combos into j.d from any distance.

[Jinkakusha]

Playing Faust will probably end up with some distance as you said, so it will mostly depend on you trying to get close enough for a combo of any kind. Use the tatami mat to pop him up and then j.s/j.d his face in. You can also try Instant Dashing at him and toss out a tatami while your at it. Even if he blocks it you'll have time to get in his face and if not then keep running until you ARE in his face.

[Yurlungur]

The distance is ridiculous! If I play it safe I can get close enough for a hit, It just depends on how he's blocking. If I pop him, he's toast, Faust can hardly dodge any aerials. So long as he doen't throw out a j.hs then I'm in the clear. Instant dashing is helpful, It's just not so successful with What's Next? going off. There's always a falling mini-Faust, a hammer, or poison to block my way. I can take half his life in one combo I just can't get one started, I've been reduced to pokes and the occasional Sakura. I see you're from Shephersville, actually, I am too. Just I put Mirrirmina well to stay true to the myth.

[rtl42]

btw you can either 6P the scalpel, or block -> youshijin. 6Ping it is like saying "hey fuck you" and getting a bit of damage, but not much else. blocking and countering with youshijin usually (always?) scores you a counter hit, so you should be able to follow up somehow -- but even if he's too far away, it gives you a chance to run in safely. in addition to poking and the occasional sakura, you should also use Ouren to make him extra cautious and psyche him out into giving up a pressure sequence. i mean in a sense, the same should happen with the threat of you countering with Sakura (in psyching out your opponent), but because Ouren is long range, it can really mess with your opponent about how they should approach you. but don't forget, Ouren has no invincibility, so it can get beat out by several moves (6P, 5K, 2K, 2S, of course air throw) if he anticipates it. as always, with Baiken, blocking is a mix-up

[Jinkakusha]

You could always try looking up matches of Baiken v. Faust. Theres a good one here around the end. The Baiken's name is Luck/Raku.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bFHF5VKA6Q&fmt=18

[Shinjin]

you should also use Ouren to make him extra cautious and psyche him out into giving up a pressure sequence..... but because Ouren is long range, it can really mess with your opponent about how they should approach you....

..... if he anticipates it.

no

it (ouren) is guaranteed 5D(dodge) on reaction. But if your opponent sucks, then yeah sure, "psyche him out".

if your opponent doesnt suck, he would even try to approach you.

[Yurlungur]

I knew 6p's had upper invincibility, I guess I hadn't tried it. Generally I can score CH with Youshijin, but a lot of his pokes are too far away. His 41236K stab never gets me a CH though, seems strange to me. I very, VERY, rarely use Ouren against this guy. It gets punished every time. Rarely when I know he's going for a long combo I'll use it to get him off me (the CH is nice too). So I agree with Shinjin on this one. Ouren is even worse against defense Faust, he'll stand in the corner and zone that whole side. His j.hs is too hard to get past along with the 41236K stab that keeps me from running in closer. What's Next? also creates that kind of wall of attacks. I finally found that I can air grab him out of Love, if I'm under him, otherwise I try jumping into it and block. That usually makes him block or hurts him. btw, how easy is it to 6K your way out of a grab? I can definitely reduce the damage he does to me if I can get out of his grabs.

[chipp_damage]

guy i know plays a similar Faust. a well timed 63214K is a good way to get into him if he tries the scalpel jab, or raining items. this works agains my guy, but yours might do a lot more lows or something.

[Deaths-Advocate]

On maximizing damage; 2D can be followed up with a straight up air combo without a tatami mat (2D, j.s, j.p, etc.). Due to Faust's weird floatyness, j.k is useful in your combos.

This is always a given, but be careful with Ouren against Faust since he can knock you out of the air with (2k?).

You can yoshijin for a counter-hit on his long scapel stab where he pulls you in (I believe it's his HCF+H).

When you're at mid-screen distance from each other, play footsies with 2S. Netting a counter-hit into tatami and combo can really ruin Faust's day.

Always pay attention to whether or not Faust is crouching. If he is, don't IAD j.s (unless you plan to land behind him for a throw set up...this is risky) or blindly throw out kabari.

For a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSWd9tu-51s

[WindmanV3]

I am not sure if EVERY Faust out there plays a keepaway sort of game, but I also often tend to run into a Faust that likes to rush me down to no end, and if throws me completely off. I either misplace my counters, or I eat a hammer or a rock, with the occasional mini-Pot and Robo-Ky. I also keep eating his pogo-stick and sunflowers. When he goes into pogo, is there anything I can really do to punish him before he goes into his spinning move, or is plain blocking the preferred way of dealing with it until you can start offense again?

(Also, I just checked the last reply date, but I have been playing GGXXAC+ with some people now, and I kind of want to know if there's any way to deal with this sort of thing.)

[kaeru]

One thing that is very important against Faust is to capitalize on certain mixups that you can do to him. He's one of those characters that you can easily land the following on while he's standing:

5(f)S -> j.D

from there you can take your knockdown or even FRC and do 2366K to get a very fast tatami that starts from the air. The j.D will count as an overhead.

Also your j.S is a very good tool if he is messing around with pogo or otherwise trying to approach you. Take advantage of how big a target he is.

For defending against him, i tend to use Yoshijin often but, as always, Sakura with an FRC is pretty reliable. If he's really good at baiting your counters, i like to try mawarikomi and see what happens. Mawarikomi is the crossing up guard cancel you can do with K. If your mawarikomi is successful and your opponent is stuck in a move or still on the ground, definitely try to go for a grab. It all happens pretty fast so you'll have to practice it.

I don't fight any really good Fausts so im really hoping someone with more experience in the matter can give some better insight.

[Hellmonkey]

Make use of his silly airborne hitbox for 2d -> j.D combo from anywhere, dragging to the corner with an FRC easily for a knockdown.

You can instant counter scalpel with youshijin, it's very strong. (input 4121>(block)>P as it hits)

Watch out for air to air vs him, he has some amazing hitboxes. (j.H?)

Good fausts will antiair you easily with 5k (i think, the kick move), and 6P. It's pretty dangerous. We have to keep a bit of space and try to land anything into a j.D to start pressure.

Watch out for wakeup FB overhead move from him, getting hit by that is really punishing. Late in the game Fausts like to use FB pogo from the air so beware that as well.

This matchup is all about spacing and preventing him from creating advantageous positions with his items. If he is free to throw stuff out and then press with them we're in trouble.

[SHINIGAMI_mkl]

His wakeup FB overhead (the chop) always gets stuffed by 6K, but you would pass under him as 6K moves you forward, and you can still combo from that.

Watch out for his float j.HS (j.2K FD cancel j.HS) as it could CH you as you do a kire Tatami or airdash normals. If he is spamming that you can close in with Suzuran or running then FD brake, or time you kire Tatami between his pokes. (edit: its his j.HS, I didn't know which button the move was.)

Sometime i find myself right under him when he is on his pogo stick (against easier Fausts), most ground normals will whiff from there. Is j.P/j.S my best options from that situation? Sometimes when I block from there Youshijin get stuffed by continuous pogo slams (for a lack of better words), what would be the best counter to use from there (I think Sakura would whiff but I'm not sure)? Would Baku hit him out of pogo stick?

[kaeru]

Sometime i find myself right under him when he is on his pogo stick (against easier Fausts), most ground normals will whiff from there. Is j.P/j.S my best options from that situation? Sometimes when I block from there Youshijin get stuffed by continuous pogo slams (for a lack of better words), what would be the best counter to use from there (I think Sakura would whiff but I'm not sure)? Would Baku hit him out of pogo stick?

When he is bouncing on the scalpel i often get tempted to 6P him but it really doesn't work (unreliable at best), so resist the urge to do that. If he gets you blocking and you are worried about flower or he is not in range to youshijin, i suggest mawarikomi to change your positioning and escape. If you have a bit of distance, j.S is really well placed to hit him from a safe distance. I wish i had a more matchup knowledge to share in this regard but hopefully that helps a little bit.

[SHINIGAMI_mkl]

So if I Mawarikomi before blocking the flower or after I would be right under him or switch to the other side maybe? from there is my best bet a j.P to hit him? I don't think I can do that always as he will eventually get smart and maybe hit me with the face extend thing or anything else. Is blocking the best answer until he is far again or he ends his string with the wrong move?

Another question, Can he be air-grabbed as he is on his pogo stick? Or is he still counted as standing during it?

[kaeru]

That's an absolutely excellent question. I will have to guess that he counts as airborn, because if you hit him with anything while he's on scalpel, it counts as an air hit. That could mean it's possible to air grab him, but he could definitely hit you before you get off the ground (same goes for j.P). Perhaps a 1F jump? It would be really nice if one of the more experienced Baiken players could answer this.

[Mr.Minionman]

So if I Mawarikomi before blocking the flower or after I would be right under him or switch to the other side maybe? from there is my best bet a j.P to hit him? I don't think I can do that always as he will eventually get smart and maybe hit me with the face extend thing or anything else. Is blocking the best answer until he is far again or he ends his string with the wrong move?

Another question, Can he be air-grabbed as he is on his pogo stick? Or is he still counted as standing during it?

Hella late answer for this, but I just happened to be stopping by. It is impossible to air grab Faust while he's on the scalpel. I'd also be careful using Mawarikomi, because he can do the pogo smack backwards, and it has some invincibility frames. Honestly with Baiken, I think the best option would be to block, and use Youshijin if he's too close. Ouren looks dangerous to use because Faust can do K flower to go through it and punish. Faust's moves are very fast while on the pogo, so unless the Faust is being very predictable with the ground flower (in which case you can probably just jump and punish), the option with the least risks involved is probably to just let him throw his item, push his buttons and get off. the overhead and low come out at specific ranges, so there isn't much he can do if you are just blocking it.

[kaeru]

Thanks for the first hand info Minionman, it's very much appreciated !

[Mr.Minionman]

No problem ^.^ Just glad I could help

I am not sure if EVERY Faust out there plays a keepaway sort of game, but I also often tend to run into a Faust that likes to rush me down to no end, and if throws me completely off. I either misplace my counters, or I eat a hammer or a rock, with the occasional mini-Pot and Robo-Ky. I also keep eating his pogo-stick and sunflowers. When he goes into pogo, is there anything I can really do to punish him before he goes into his spinning move, or is plain blocking the preferred way of dealing with it until you can start offense again?

(Also, I just checked the last reply date, but I have been playing GGXXAC+ with some people now, and I kind of want to know if there's any way to deal with this sort of thing.)

Faust's mixup is rather strong up close, because he has drill cancel j.k overheads, several decent lows, and mettakiri (pseudo command grab). However, he's not going to be approaching until a good item covers his ground, or he gets a good knockdown. Most of his good spacing tools have sizable recovery if whiffed, so do your best to avoid items and predict which poke he tries to go for, and get in. It looks pretty tough for Baiken, but I'm sure you can do it.

Here are the +R matches I have right now on the Faust video thread:

[4/18/2013] Amakusa vs Nage(Faust)

[5/16/2013] OsakaB(Faust) vs Fuwanko

[6/27/2013]Maruken vs. Kiisha(Faust)

perhaps they'll be useful here too.