Xrd online input delay

[illness690]

Anyone else dealing with this besides me, or am I just crazy? I played about 30 matches over the past hour or so against an Elphelt player, and I could literally see the delay of my button presses. Everything came out at least half a second to a second after I pressed a button, making the matches unplayable. I couldn't punish anything the Elphelt was doing, I couldn't react to anything, couldn't IAD when I needed to, couldn't combo most of the time, but the Elphelt was hitting everything, and doing so much random stuff that looked extremely punishable, but because of the delay I was unable to punish in time. I also had a similar experience against a Ky player earlier today. He could do everything, hit combos, overheads, etc, I couldn't anything due to delay. Has this been other people's experience online? I've heard that the netcode wasn't that good, but I didn't think it was this bad. This KOF13 level input delay.

[Sashi]

Prostrate yourself before the kings of neetpray.

 

 

 

...Yeah, the netplay is pretty shitty. Just play locals.

[Nemo-_-]

Arcsys can fix the netcode, right? Right?

[Soviet Bear]

From the comments I've seen on the forums, the US (and Canada) seem to be having a really bad time with the netcode, while Europe seems fine. At least I know as a Euro player that I didn't have all that much trouble.

 

Also, PS3 seems to be slightly worse than PS4? I've seen a few such comments, but I've played with PS3 players without any real issues.

[stickystaines]

I feel like what the delay says is pretty accurate, so if it says 2f delay then its 2f. The problem just comes from fluctuating delay and higher then typical delay for the expected ping. Granted, it is typical to add a frame extra to guard against packet loss.

 

I'd like to see the delay display in Blazblue as well, to see how it compares.

[Kintaro]

It would help if you noted the frame delay on the top of your screen. Anything above two digits I avoid. Around 4F or so is quite good to me, and 5-9 is acceptable.

Question is, what frame delay was on your screen when you were playing?

[Sashi]

2 digits? Are you joking? 3f is too much.

[Killnetic]

4F is basically event horizon for bad netplay. If you can keep it at a solid 4F then it will be bearable. Don't use wireless connections, don't torrent, don't youtube, don't netflix etc. If any of that is going on, you aren't going to have a stable connection due to self inflicted packet loss. It is worth directly connecting your PS3/4 to your modem circumventing bad hardware inbetween if you are having issue. 5F+ is bad and not worth messing with. This is the same for basically any FG that you dial in the frame delay for netplay on the PC. Most people use 4F unless you know explicitly that somebody can round trip with you in less than 54ms(13.3_ x 4)

 

1-3f are nice assuming you aren't experiencing packet loss.

[Dusk Thanatos]

4f is pretty bad and basically unplayable imo

 

3f is bad but kind of playable depending on the game

 

2f is decent at best

 

1f is good

[Kintaro]

Dogura(Sol), Woshige(Millia), and Haitani(Zato) played online with about 4-5F delays on stream. I don't know their opinions about the netcode or if 4-5 frames are bad, but as long as I get around the same delay as they do I won't complain.

Granted maybe the stream took some frames away from their ping, but as long as I can play Japanese players here in the Philippines at 4F+, I'm fine with it.

[fogelstrom]

From EU and I think the online is pretty bad along with many other swedish players.
Up to 4F CAN be alright but sometimes it's bad even between 2-4F depending on who you play against.
I really have no idea what they did to make it this bad but it's indeed difficult to play. 
Congrats to anyone that have people to play with offline. For the rest of us we can only hope ArcSys can patch this.

[MasterXDrake]

From EU and I think the online is pretty bad along with many other swedish players.

Up to 4F CAN be alright but sometimes it's bad even between 2-4F depending on who you play against.

I really have no idea what they did to make it this bad but it's indeed difficult to play. 

Congrats to anyone that have people to play with offline. For the rest of us we can only hope ArcSys can patch this.

Well this is disappointing to hear as a fellow Swedish player. Which platsform are you on tho?

[stickystaines]

4F is basically event horizon for bad netplay. If you can keep it at a solid 4F then it will be bearable. Don't use wireless connections, don't torrent, don't youtube, don't netflix etc. If any of that is going on, you aren't going to have a stable connection due to self inflicted packet loss. It is worth directly connecting your PS3/4 to your modem circumventing bad hardware inbetween if you are having issue. 5F+ is bad and not worth messing with. This is the same for basically any FG that you dial in the frame delay for netplay on the PC. Most people use 4F unless you know explicitly that somebody can round trip with you in less than 54ms(13.3_ x 4)

 

1-3f are nice assuming you aren't experiencing packet loss.

Ping is to get to the destination and back, so the theoretical minimum is: ping / (frameTime * 2) or ping / 33.334 and then round up if we assume 60fps. So 4 frames would be 133.336ms.

 

However a constant might be added to the ping to guard against borderline cases. Consider when ping is 100ms, you would get 2.999940001199976, this could easily take only just a bit longer to reach and then you would have to skip a frame because the input hasn't reached you yet. So becomes (ping + constant) / 33.334. Then they might an extra frame to guard against packet loss, so it becomes ceiling( ((ping + constant) / 33.336)) ) + 1

 

So now, if we assume a constant of 5ms for example, someone at 30ms becomes delay 3 instead of delay 1 if you just did 30 / 33.336.

 

That said it's not like i know the exact implementation of Xrd's netcode but something like this is possible.

[Scallat]

I was under the impression that Arcsys always used GGPO style netcode?

 

Which would mean instead of waiting 5 frames for the opponents inputs before advancing the game state it instead uses the best guess at what those inputs might be and moves ahead regardless. Then it rolls back and corrects before returning to the current frame if it detects that the actual inputs were different from the predicted inputs. 

 

Under this system there should be the appearance of very little or no input delay at all. (There actually is a delay you just don't see it). Which is why it's so weird that Xrd has noticable input delays. Is it not using GGPO? Are latencies just that high right now?

[stickystaines]

ArcSys has never used rollback style netcode.

[Soviet Bear]

I don't know, it feels like BBCP to me. I wonder whether people would have noticed if the delay wasn't displayed.

[River]

Stop whining and complaining. 
Xrd net code is better than sf4 code at its best. 
I have 2-4 frame delay when playing with europe.
GGxrd have great net code. 

[Dreiko]

I think overall, for every whiner who uses the frame delay to make excuses, there will be 3 people who genuinely are helped by realizing why their stuff isn't working right and not blaming their controllers. There's lots of people who just don't know what input delay is who refuse to believe you when you tell them there's lag and this number will be the useful proof you'll need to convince them. Also, in the same vein, people complaining about lag in a 2f connection will be invalidated instantly, which is also good.

 

 

Yes this isn't GGPO but it still is pretty good. It'd be awesome if they had rollback netcode but not much we can do about it now.

[fogelstrom]

Well this is disappointing to hear as a fellow Swedish player. Which platsform are you on tho?

Is there anything to choose from? Buying a new stick just for one game is bit much. But I guess there are some pad warriors?

I think every swedish player I've seen is PS3 so far though.

Also obviously some people will think that this netcode is fine whilst others wont. I can only talk from my experience as being a true online hero. I've played ALOT of fighting games online for the most part of the last decade. And with that said my personal impression of Xrd netcode is that it's amongst the worst I've experienced. I'd even dare to say I feel that it's on par with MvC3, slightly better perhaps. Not as bad as KOF13 but to even have to bring up these titles by comparison...

[Dusk Thanatos]

Ping is to get to the destination and back, so the theoretical minimum is: ping / (frameTime * 2) or ping / 33.334 and then round up if we assume 60fps. So 4 frames would be 133.336ms.

 

However a constant might be added to the ping to guard against borderline cases. Consider when ping is 100ms, you would get 2.999940001199976, this could easily take only just a bit longer to reach and then you would have to skip a frame because the input hasn't reached you yet. So becomes (ping + constant) / 33.334. Then they might an extra frame to guard against packet loss, so it becomes ceiling( ((ping + constant) / 33.336)) ) + 1

 

So now, if we assume a constant of 5ms for example, someone at 30ms becomes delay 3 instead of delay 1 if you just did 30 / 33.336.

 

That said it's not like i know the exact implementation of Xrd's netcode but something like this is possible.

 

I think Xrd has a flat 2 delay minimum in the netcode, just judging from everything I've seen. Kinda sucks, but oh well.

 

 

I think overall, for every whiner who uses the frame delay to make excuses, there will be 3 people who genuinely are helped by realizing why their stuff isn't working right and not blaming their controllers. There's lots of people who just don't know what input delay is who refuse to believe you when you tell them there's lag and this number will be the useful proof you'll need to convince them. Also, in the same vein, people complaining about lag in a 2f connection will be invalidated instantly, which is also good.

 

 

Yes this isn't GGPO but it still is pretty good. It'd be awesome if they had rollback netcode but not much we can do about it now.

 

A) Whining about a 2f delay connection is legit. Imagine trying to play +R in 2f delay as someone with harder FRCs. Your timing would immediately be shot and you'd drop almost everything. Hell, even on MBAACC, which feels pretty netplay forgiving at times due to the large cancel windows, I find it legitimately difficult to j.abc j.bc AT as FVAki in 2 delay, but do it flawlessly in 1 delay. Frame delay always matters, and it's always real lag. It's something you accept just by playing online, yes, but you should be aware that netplay will never be the same as offline, and in some ways, that's a legitimate cause for complaint.

 

B) This netcode is not "pretty good." To even break "pretty good," imo, you can't be using variable frame delay. It's the worst kind of delay-based netcode there is (and fully delay-based netcode is about the worst kind of netcode, generally speaking, so it's the worst of the worst). As has been repeatedly pointed out, many games have inbuilt or third party netcode that fares much better than this game's netcode ever will or could. Compared to what's out there, it's basically better than Capcom netcode, and that's about it.

[Killnetic]

Ping is to get to the destination and back, so the theoretical minimum is: ping / (frameTime * 2) or ping / 33.334 and then round up if we assume 60fps. So 4 frames would be 133.336ms.

 

However a constant might be added to the ping to guard against borderline cases. Consider when ping is 100ms, you would get 2.999940001199976, this could easily take only just a bit longer to reach and then you would have to skip a frame because the input hasn't reached you yet. So becomes (ping + constant) / 33.334. Then they might an extra frame to guard against packet loss, so it becomes ceiling( ((ping + constant) / 33.336)) ) + 1

 

So now, if we assume a constant of 5ms for example, someone at 30ms becomes delay 3 instead of delay 1 if you just did 30 / 33.336.

 

That said it's not like i know the exact implementation of Xrd's netcode but something like this is possible.

 

Close. I did mess up on my time per frame citation since it was off the top of my head. 1000/60 (ms in a second divided by frames in a second) is 16.66_ ms per frame. Frame delay is a precipitant of ping in Xrd, not a function of it. 4 frames is 66.66_ ms. Unless explicitly proven by fact, it is best to not assume there is a hidden frame delay value other than what is displayed on the screen. If speculating: best case scenario for netcode is actually half RTT due to being broadcast only with subtle rollbacks. In the case of 100 ms RTT/ping you need about 50 ms plus max delta (in recent time frame) of buffer time, so just barely over 3F delay assuming no ping jitter. At the moment I haven't had a chance to compare actual network RTT with Xrd's detected frame delay. Until somebody takes a large sample set of RTT data compared to Xrd frame delay, we will only be able to guess. Since the netcode looks roughly verbatim to BB, I would say it should be fine on release day when there are more people to test connections with.

 

That said, the connection indicator is pretty poor as I have seen connection ratings at '4/max' with people I get 9F+ frame delay with.

 

Important things to remember is a lot of people have no idea how much packet loss their connection has which ultimately is a big offender in fluctuating frame delays. I know a lot of people have their PS3/4 hooked up to their home wireless router and they really shouldn't. Wireless signal interference is common and causes poor connectivity.

 

The netcode seriously is fine, it may not be perfect but variable frame delay is only an issue if you have variable pings.

[chun_li1]

Just wanted to mention. even when you do have a 2-4 delay, netcode fluctuates too much during some matchmaking, with the occasional out of (4 f) bounds spiking beyond for a moment.

 

 

That annoys most people I have talked to, the changing timings.

[illness690]

Stop whining and complaining. 

Xrd net code is better than sf4 code at its best. 

I have 2-4 frame delay when playing with europe.

GGxrd have great net code. 

I rarely experience lag while playing sf4. Why do arcsys fans always randomly bring capcom games into discussions outta the blue? This game's netcode isn't great.

[acefondu]

Played it last night on PS4 as it released early here in the states. Online felt really good to me and on par with some of the better fighting games I've played online. 2f-4f on average lag, which felt comparable to SF4 on average. Some matches got to 6f which is when I could notice pressing a button and waiting for it to come out. It's not stunningly good netcode like Smash 4, or Soul Calibur 5, but it's average or above average and certainly playable and enjoyable. 

[D.R.F.]

I played all the way up to 7 delay. It is no GGPO or VF5 netcode but it pays the bills.