Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

TheRealBobMan

[Xrd] I-No Video Critique Thread

Recommended Posts

gs8tu3e.png

 

 

These seem popular, so let's link our videos and ask for game play feedback.  Should also give players an opportunity to reflect on themselves.  Remember, your videos are also for you to look at.  If you want an outline on a strong way to approach reflecting on your own matches, look at ehuangsan's match post-mortem guide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll be narcissistic and start the thread with my performance on stream last night at Super Arcade:

 

 

I play against TheBeautifulDude at about 12:26, and then Psyblade at 1:07:27.  Both of these guys go onto grand finals, and they go down to the wire with a full set for a bracket reset into another full set, so I suggest watching that too.  Starts at 1:47:16.  I hope my attempt at commentary wasn't too bad.  There's plenty of GG before grand finals with some Sol, Pot, Bedman, Millia, Zato, and Venom play, if any of those characters interest you.

 

 

 

Vs TheBeautifulDude

So, what's worked for me in the past is making sure to shoot notes low to stop Little Eddie.  I couldn't care less about them being reflected because I can jump/dash over them.  I'll shoot notes high if I think the Zato will jump after realizing that Drunkard Shade doesn't help much, but I made a few mistakes with jump and dash timing, causing me to block my own notes or get hit by them (including accidental back dashes).  I was having trouble with the new Little Eddie summoning system.  I tried to shoot a note around 13:47, but Little Eddie summons next to me and I get owned.  First time playing a Zato in Xrd, so don't hate on me too hard for that.

 

I'm not sure what match openings beat what.  First round he reads me with Drunkard Shade, so second round I opt for a low poke, but he gets a CH for that with I think his 2S.  Another round I opt for 6P and get the CH against his 2S.

 

As far as major mistakes go, muscle memory at 15:17 causes me to go for f.S out of 6P instead of 5H, so I drop the combo because the old one where you catch them with j.S doesn't work (can't jump cancel the f.S and it has like 19 frames recovery).  At 15:54 I drop a dash after an RC, so that really hurt too.  I drop yet another combo at 16:34, but the damage before the drop is a strong indicator of why distant knockdown (Pdive or HCL) for extra hits on note oki is good.  I went into the IAD pressure string for RISC+ into a mixup, and if I hadn't dropped that it would have really hurt (especially if I had worked on optimized Eddie specific combos) and I would have kept initiative.  That's the kind of thing you need in this matchup.

 

Zato's setplay is stronger than I-No's because of his unblockable setup, but we can kill him in fewer combos.  I also don't feel like his mixup at neutral is worth worrying about even if he manages to get you to block a buzz saw.  It really hurts when he throws you and sets up the unblockable, but otherwise it's not hard to block his high/low (they nerfed Zato's 6K right?).  TheBeautifulDude also has a habit of going for the j.K > dj.K 95% of the time instead of mixing in 5K/2K, so that hurts him.  It's odd because the same tools we had that gave us an edge in this matchup are still there... it's just that they don't seem to give the same reward, so on average we need more reads.  I got to play 6-7 casual matches with him before leaving for the night and have a stronger feel for the matchup.  Hopefully I can get more next week.

 

 

Vs PsyBlade

With I-No's changes in Xrd, I feel like she's Millia if Millia traded speed for damage output and good hitboxes for the coverage HCL/VCL offer.  The other major difference is that her oki is more consistent when meterless, we're better at 25% for VCL YRC, but with a commitment of 50% she's even better.  That Chroming Rose doesn't prorate meter gain like YRC/RC does, so Millia can really floor you if she gets that going in the corner.  Our damage output vs Millia is even better than vs Zato, but neutral is much harder since she dances around so much.  I get punished for multiple stupidly timed notes during this set.  Getting knockdowns in place of big damage and corner push from some of our neutral options (Dive and STBT) is going to hurt since we then need to succeed at oki more times, but Millia is also fighting uphill against the changes to guts.  When she's not doing combos with cranked RISC or Chroming Rose active, she needs 5+ combos to kill us, when it was probably only 4 before (our defense wasn't that high either).

 

At 1:07:40, I drop a VCL that should have lead to a 40% combo or him using his Burst.  Then at 1:07:46 I accidentally BS when trying to HCL YRC (it was still the wrong move though since he jumped out).  At 1:08:53 I drop the confirm off of the air hit (have I complained enough about her HD feeling different yet?) and get throw, giving her initiative again.  At 1:08:06 I beat a haircar with 6H (I was going for throw, but hey that works).  Right after that at 1:08:10 I read the superfall with VCL YRC, but his blasted Rose super saves him.  At 1:08:40 I'm not paying enough attention and he gets his pin back, so I try to AA with 6P and he reads it.  Like TheBeautifulDude is saying in the background, don't do that.  :psyduck:  I also want to point out that Psyblade keeps reading my crouch blocks at long range and going for 6K - I'm assuming that at that range that he's going to go for 2D so I'm holding down back and trying to manually correct on reaction, but it's really hard to do that consistently and he keeps punishing me for it.  Make sure you learn gatling trees for other characters!  Millia has 6K/2K mixup off of 5K, but at that range 2K would whiff.  Her 2D is slow (13f), and for some people it might be easier to block high and react to her crouching on reaction than to block low and try to react to the 6K.

 

At 1:09:00 I go for 2K > 2S > 2H so I could into STBT-S and reset, but the 2H whiffs because the hitbox is smaller (2D also probably would have whiffed at that range though).  Anyway, I make some mistakes at 1:09:34 as well, but make sure you watch that round.  I feel much better about my first time making it onto the stream at Super Arcade because of this.  After that though I'm back to being pressured/oki'd for most of the match.  In situations like 1:10:41, remember that you have meter and go for a dead angle, or grind out those reversal BS and IB > BS.  At 1:11:01 Millia rolls under 2S opener.  :psyduck:  On that note, if you do the "how to defend against I-No training" and use 2S or 2D against STBT, she goes under them.  Our 2S and 2D hitboxes are that shitty (let's give you a sweep that can be low profiled under!).  If you need to hit along the ground, use 2K or VCL.  At 1:11:47 I try to poke the 5D on reaction but 2K doesn't have the range (I'll have to check in training mode later if her 5D goes under 2S - her 5D is slow enough that you could probably counter poke with 2S on time, but it also low profiles).

 

 

 

 

Anyway, that's it for my matches.  If you see anything else that's questionable or have generalized matchup info, please help me out (I mostly highlighted input mistakes rather than strategy mistakes).  I have a lot more experience vs Millia than Zato/Eddie (I had played against TheBeautifulDude once before in +R and that's about it), but I'm honestly really weak in the matchup department since I don't get to play often with my work schedule.  I mostly play against my friend's Sol when I do have free time.

 

 

 

 

*Edit*

Here are some matches where I try to figure out what to do in the Elphelt matchup (unrelated to the above tournament - this happened in casuals the next day).  Looks like only 4 were uploaded, but FRCFlyingJohnny 16-0'd me.  These are in-person matches by the way... not sure what's up with the lag in video 2.

 

First

Second

Third

Forth

 

Things to note about the Elphelt matchup:

 

1.  The grenade has a hitbox when in the air or rolling that stays active until it touches you at least once, besides the hitbox when it explodes.  Hitting it with a projectile will cancel this hitbox but not detonate the grenade.

2.  I-No doesn't seem to be able to low profile under the anti-air in shotgun stance (I believe it's S) with STBT.  This makes it a really difficult move for us to deal with.  6P may work at max range but I couldn't get it to work at anything closer.

3.  The shotgun has more range than our dead angle, and it's a projectile so Blitz Shield doesn't help much given our poke speed relative to how far away she can be when firing.  Using IB > 2K for some of her options and Desperation for careless shotgun pressure will probably be our go-to option if she doesn't get right in I-No's face.

4.  I've had her roll through crazy things, and she can apparently roll straight through gunflame, so take care not to super like an idiot.  Also 2S might be useful in some situations given its range, but roll can punish it.

5.  Do not attempt to AA air-bridal express except with 6H or VCL.  6H is super risky for practically no reward, and VCL is also risky without YRC, so take care.  You're probably better off making her whiff if you don't have meter.

6.  The grenade's timer counts down during super flashes and cinematics.

7.  I feel like I tried to STBT under ground Bridal Express and it didn't work, but it's not in one of these videos so I can't confirm.  I'll have to try it later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1st round start - Jump > Dive can work against a lot of Sol's options, but you dived from too high up.  You let him recover, and it's unsafe on block from that high up even if he didn't IB.  Looks like that was Kdive though, which is good since it has better recovery than Sdive.

 

0:30 - Right after back dashing the BB you go for HCL.  At this range it's kinda risky, and you didn't have meter for YRC to make it safe or get anything worthwhile off of it on hit.

 

0:33 - Good punish on BR.  I didn't realize that it's a whopping -5 on block now from that range.  Learn to IB the second hit to increase your success window and possibly get better punishes (would be -8, could lead to an unprorated IAD setup with 6f c.S).

 

0:36 - I'm guessing your input dropped because of online lag or you were baiting something.  If it was a bait, he didn't have meter for Dead Angle so I'm assuming Burst.  If you can jump cancel at a certain part of your combo or block string, you can make it safe.  You could have gone into 5K/c.S pressure into more mixup without giving him back the initiative.

 

0:57 - Another dropped thing or unsuccessful bait.

 

1:00 - Better spacing for HCL.  The VCL reduced your oki time, and since that was a CH HCL you might have been able to go into 2S > HCL for meterless knockdown and still get the damage.  If you had YRC'd you could have gotten big damage too.

 

1:23 - Nice job scaring him so you could throw.

 

1:27 - Dropping that hurts.  Grind it out.

 

1:32 - Another example of why HCL at this range is risky.  He can 6P through it, 2D under it, etc.  If you suspect 2D, you can VCL to beat it as long as you're doing it slightly early (can't reversal VCL anymore).

 

 

Second round opening - looks like he read a jump > dive?  It happens, but try not to be too predictable.

 

2:06 - Good range for 6P.  Work on confirming something off of it though.  I don't know if you dropped it or if you weren't sure whether or not it'd hit and stopped pushing buttons.

 

2:11 - Too far away for a throw if that's what you were going for.  Gives them way too much time to punish.

 

2:18 - At that range you might have been able to throw him, considering you blocked it standing.  Try to force yourself to remember that you can always punish BR if Sol isn't using it at nearly max range (usually he'll do this to try to catch a jump out since you have to air FD).  You probably weren't going to get a poke in since you didn't IB, so it's good that you didn't try there.

 

2:32 - HCL from a risky range again.

 

2:56 - Nice read on his Fafnir, but YRC'd too late and dropped your follow up.  That hurts since you could have killed right there.

 

3:05 - In a situation like that, I don't blame you for using HCL ~ D to try to kill.  However, I still would have used note for oki there.  You weren't far enough away that he could jump out against Note, so if you shot it low to cover GV you could have forced him to block or take a risk.  You also had enough meter to YRC which could have helped you.

 

 

Third round opening - You jumped again.  "HE'S NOT GONNA DO IT AGAIN!"  And then Sol got hit.  :yaaay:  You could have punished the Fafnir a little harder after making it whiff like that, but knockdown is good.

 

3:22 - The IAD j.K safe jump after the knockdown was a good idea, but he wakes up just a second late.  I would have gone for note pressure, but that's a good bait for OTG blue bursts and DPs.  I like it, but he wound up taking initiative.

 

3:25 - Two early 6Ps in a row.  I'm assuming a lot of mistakes are coming from online lag.  At the height he approached from when you did the second one, VCL YRC would have been a good option.

 

3:38 - Really gotta watch for that 6H.  The good news is that 2K recovered quickly enough that it wasn't a CH, but you didn't have the range for that.  I'm guessing you read a Fafnir and he messed up the Fafnir input.  :psyduck:  At that range 2S may have worked.  Fafnir is actually 18f, which is 1f slower than his 6H.  You're risking getting counter poked by his faster f.S or 2D, but 2S will cover both Fafnir and 6H.

 

3:39 - I know you wanted to throw him back into the corner, but with I-No's oki strength you probably should have used 6H as your OS against a jump out.  You had the meter to RC if the throw worked and cross over/under to put him back in the corner too.

 

3:51 - Risky note.  Sol could have hit a button and most of his moves would have killed you there.

 

3:54 - Nice HCL YRC.  You may have been able to combo into 2H, which then would have followed up into STBT-S for a reset opportunity.

 

3:56 - IB would have helped you a lot right there.  Too far away to throw, but you could have counter poked with 2K or Gold Bursted since you just got your burst back.

 

 

 

Next game round start at 4:33 - You jumped again.  He tried to 6P which covers a lot of our options, but jump > dive beats it.  Since it worked I'll let it go, but this Sol should try to punish these.  Even if I get punished for it once in a while, if my opponent jumps back at the start of more than 50% of our games, I'll start to dash in to air throw like 30% of the time, even if it's high risk.

 

4:41 - Maybe you used the HCL ~ D here because the last HCL didn't knock down, but Sol was standing which meant he was going to be knocked down without it.  Your note was done at a disadvantage, so GV or a dash in 2D would have punished you pretty bad right there.  He messed up by going for the f.S though.

 

4:50 - Dropped what could have been a killer punish.

 

4:54 - Ballsy note, but I hope you attempted to YRC on reaction to the BB.

 

4:57 - Could have reacted to the jump and attempted 5P or 6P.

 

5:04 - Nice bait on the DP, but you flubbed a punish that would have ended the round.

 

 

Second round start at 5:16 - More going airborne.  It worked though, so good job.

 

5:43 - Nice bait on the DP, but you dropped your punish again.

 

5:46 - Sol disrespects your oki again like when he did 5K against your safejump IAD j.K, but this time you went for a delayed IAD overhead so it worked.  I feel like this is risky given the number of times you successfully baited a DP and saw him poke out of your oki that didn't involve note.

 

5:57 - Nice 6P, good confirm off of it.  I like that you didn't take the risk on an IAD combo at that range.

 

6:02 - Took a risk by using HCL since you saw Sol crouching.  At that range it's super risky to do that since he can 6P through it or use other moves on reaction since the blockstun from the prior move will wear off while you're in recovery, and the HCL wont put him in block stun.

 

6:16 - Try to be more aware of the time slow ruining your chances to punish.  5P would have been less risky to use there.

 

6:18 - You can actually influence a note's movement more than normal if you repeatedly press the stick instead of holding it.  You could have hit Sol there, and you also could have YRC'd.

 

6:22 - I'm going to assume lag played a part in this, but it looks like the ! icon appeared, which means you were blocking and hit by this overhead, right?  Practice A LOT against Sol.  This move is slow as hell, so you should never be mixed up by it unless it's one of those situational and gimmicky cross ups, or unless Sol YRCs into a different move at the last second as a mixup.  The 32f startup means that even in lag you should be able to block it properly.

 

 

Round start at 6:30 - YOU DIDN'T JUMP!  :toot:

 

6:58 - Dropped a corner combo.  : (

 

7:12 - That was a risky play, and you should have RC'd that dive at that height since even without IB he was going to punish you on block.  You could have potentially lost the round off of that one if Sol punished you correctly, so this is probably your worst mistake from these two games.

 

7:18 - Nice bait on the VV, but you could have punished him way harder, possibly killing him off of this throw if you RC'd and dashed for corner push into a Fortissimo combo.

 

7:22 - Ok, this almost makes up for not killing him off of the prior throw.  Good job.  :toot:

 

 

 

Round Start

5/6 times you jumped.  It worked 3/5 times.  You were making the right calls 50% of the time and didn't get punished on round start for 1/2 health lost, so I can't fault you.  I feel like you were being too predictable though.

 

Dropped Combos/Punishes (14)  It's online play, but if you hadn't dropped these you would have done significantly better.  Gotta grind it out, mostly building animation recognition and matchup knowledge.

0:36, 0:57, 1:27, 2:06, 2:18, 2:56, 3:54, 3:56, 4:50, 5:04, 5:43, 6:58, 7:18

 

 

Strategic Decisions I don't agree with (11)  You have to take risks from time to time, but you have to know when a risk is worth it and cover yourself better when you have the resources to do so.

0:30, 0:36, 1:32, 2:11, 2:32, 3:05, 3:39, 3:51, 4:41, 6:02, 7:12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow thanks for that detailed and informative write up Bobman, I agree with a lot of things you said, our connection was mostly solid I would say, but I have definitely leveled up a lot more since these matches. I do go overboard with the dives right now because no one has been punishing them, but I know that won't work when I run into people who will. Look forward to growing a lot with this character. We have a local tournament in 2 weeks that I hope will have some footage from.

 

I'll be writing these things down on my "break habits" post it notes that are on my monitor haha.

 

Cheers mate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm still a beginner I-No player who can't do IAD j.K j.S BnBs confidently and still trying to get used to GG. My best combo is only "2K > 6P > 5HS > 214K > 214S > RC > airdash > j.S > j.HS > 214K > 214S" so far. I played a little bit in an online tournament tonight. I had 3 opponents: a Potemkin, an I-No mirror match and Faust. Here is the stream archive link - http://www.twitch.tv/astrothelabrat_tv/c/5771685
 
vs Potemkin: starts at 02:38:37 and ends at 02:46:51

 

vs I-No: starts at 03:17:37 and ends at 03:22:00

 

vs Faust: starts at 04:13:17 and ends at 04:17:54

 

Constructive criticism will be appreciated.

 

UPDATE: Edited the links

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright so we had our first local GG weekly tourney on Friday, I ended up taking 2nd (got to grand finals but lost both sets :( ) missed combos and bad VCL timing aside I need to learn how to get out of slayers pressure, god that was so rough!

 

Winners Semi's 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtVwdNhAuMM

 

Winner's Finals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw9YrGFwrZc&index=10

 

Grand Finals 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra3Edf9SqJg

 

If you guys can pick anything out in grand finals I should've done more/less of I'm all ears. I couldn't find the gaps in his pressure and was hoping 2k would catch but his dandy step goes just far enough back. 2S seemed to be slow so maybe 5k is the answer? I'm going into training today to figure out what i can do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, so we have 2 people in queue ahead of you that need some breakdowns, but having watched your three videos I wanted to point some stuff out about the last one.  At 8:22 you messed up pretty bad by not punishing the Blitz Shield on reaction, and they said it was a great move on the Slayer's part, when it wasn't.  Yeah, if anyone uses BS against VCL YRC, they go through the projectile and get to sit there with invul, but they're also in extended BS state and you get to run an immediate high/low.  Had you gotten the 2K instead of 5K you would have hit him low and could have comboed, him possibly for the kill (probably not because 2K proration, but you almost had enough meter for air super so maybe).

 

Also, they said that you were getting hit by Helter Skelter almost every time, which wasn't true.  You blocked the Helter Skelter something like 90% of the time, but got CH almost every time by his follow up.  The move is +12, so trying to poke out afterward is really risky, especially since you didn't IB.

 

 

In general you barely ever use j.D.  I mean, you caught him almost every time you did use it (I think he blocked it once or twice), but when you do use it, you're mostly jumping into it raw and getting counter hits, rather than doing a HD string into j.D for the high/low at landing.

 

He's also AAing you with his 5P a lot.  I think he realized he should disrespect you when you dash in without note cover, and as such you need to learn when it's appropriate to simply walk forward to build meter.

 

I go back to work on Tuesday and I have plans for today and tomorrow, so I don't know if I can get around to doing all of these.  Hopefully someone else can step in to help out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, so we have 2 people in queue ahead of you that need some breakdowns, but having watched your three videos I wanted to point some stuff out about the last one.  At 8:22 you messed up pretty bad by not punishing the Blitz Shield on reaction, and they said it was a great move on the Slayer's part, when it wasn't.  Yeah, if anyone uses BS against VCL YRC, they go through the projectile and get to sit there with invul, but they're also in extended BS state and you get to run an immediate high/low.  Had you gotten the 2K instead of 5K you would have hit him low and could have comboed, him possibly for the kill (probably not because 2K proration, but you almost had enough meter for air super so maybe).

 

Also, they said that you were getting hit by Helter Skelter almost every time, which wasn't true.  You blocked the Helter Skelter something like 90% of the time, but got CH almost every time by his follow up.  The move is +12, so trying to poke out afterward is really risky, especially since you didn't IB.

 

 

In general you barely ever use j.D.  I mean, you caught him almost every time you did use it (I think he blocked it once or twice), but when you do use it, you're mostly jumping into it raw and getting counter hits, rather than doing a HD string into j.D for the high/low at landing.

 

He's also AAing you with his 5P a lot.  I think he realized he should disrespect you when you dash in without note cover, and as such you need to learn when it's appropriate to simply walk forward to build meter.

 

I go back to work on Tuesday and I have plans for today and tomorrow, so I don't know if I can get around to doing all of these.  Hopefully someone else can step in to help out.

 

Thanks man. I'll try and look at the other guys vids and see if I can help out. I went into training against slayer and found out a lot of stuff actually about him I'm going to post up, especially how you can poke out of helter skelter when they try to follow up with j.H and make it combo, you can 6P  > 5H it for a full punish. Screw their +12 frame advantage we got 1-13 6p invincible!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The stream archive got deleted, but the whole online tournament was saved as a large Highlight video. I edited the links to my matches so that they could be critiqued by someone who hasn't watched the videos yet. I could've tried uploading those matches on Youtube, but I hadn't taken my capture card back from a friend who streamed the tourney.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I won't go into too much detail and point out times but I will point out general things I feel people should work on that really stood out to me.

 

@Vlad: I think you need to play a lot more safe against pot. I personally would always do Note oki or VCL YRC oki on him as he can't really do much about either of those 2. At the end against pot, I could be wrong but I felt like you were not watching your opponent's meter closely as he had full meter and he could have done wake up super to clinch that final round you had. 

 

I'm not very well-versed in the Faust MU but I really think you need to keep an eye on what item is coming out. But the most important thing I felt about your match against Faust was you absolutely need to find a way to send the note out even if it costs meter because you will force Faust to do something like jump, or crawl under note. If he were to normally poke you when a note is out, he would get hit.

 

@MrSoulo: I don't really have much to say if that is your 2nd match ever so I will tell you that you need to play more. Are you new to fighting games? It takes a while to get used to the neutral game on top of doing all the combos and mix ups. Some things you can work on are combos and setups in training mode. As you said you do need to keep an eye on your meter more. Find ways to utilize your meter like Note YRC, STBT YRC, HCL YRC airdash. As a general rule of thumb, if the opponent jumps in on you, you would want to be using 6P to beat their jump in.

 

@BlackAlpha: I've watched most of the footage. I noticed you tend to be mashing buttons A LOT. That's kinda what characters like Leo and Slayer WANT you to do as you have experienced in your GFs set against SuperJae. 

 

1. I really feel you need a good understanding of all of your defensive options: FD, IB, backdash, jumping out, Blitz Shield & mashing. It really felt to me even in your previous posts, you're just trying to find ways to beat X when it may not always be the best idea. Getting CH by Slayer is REALLY bad. IIRC you got dizzied at least twice and you took lots of damage from getting CH'd. Will elaborate more in section 2.

 

Specifically with Slayer, most of his buttons are negative on block aside from Dandy S > H but you can make that negative just by IBing the H and BAM. If you were to hit 2K right after that, you will CH slayer if he tries to do anything. K Mappa is punishable on IB with 2K since it becomes about -6 and 2K has a 5f start up and reaches pretty far.

 

2. So when Slayer has you in the corner, he can put on quite a bit of pressure. Instead of say mashing all the time, you can sj.iad and S dive if needed just to get out to midscreen and reset the situation. I saw you tried to do that one time but got air thrown. I would rather get air thrown all day than take a CH and lose 1/2 of my life, just sayin.

 

3. I've noticed you always end your midscreen confirms into HCL+ (HCL + follow up). What kind of knockdown you get dictates what oki options are available to you. An example would be ending your combo in HCL. In this case, you can do TK Note oki, dash VCL YRC, hoverdash airdash FFVCL (YRC), safe jump j.K/j.S. With HCL+, you're pretty limited since if you try to do note, your opponents will be able to jump out since you recover so late and they're about to get up. I think this would help your oki game a lot more.

 

4. Some thing I think you and every other I-No player should note is that if you use j.D FDC, that you will not gain meter as quickly. There is a cooldown on gaining meter when you have just used meter. I noticed the round that you were using it quite a bit on SuperJae, your meter hovered around 25 meter around that time and you did not gain much meter until a while later (First set of GFs Game 3 Round 2).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I won't go into too much detail and point out times but I will point out general things I feel people should work on that really stood out to me.

 

@Vlad: I think you need to play a lot more safe against pot. I personally would always do Note oki or VCL YRC oki on him as he can't really do much about either of those 2. At the end against pot, I could be wrong but I felt like you were not watching your opponent's meter closely as he had full meter and he could have done wake up super to clinch that final round you had. 

 

I'm not very well-versed in the Faust MU but I really think you need to keep an eye on what item is coming out. But the most important thing I felt about your match against Faust was you absolutely need to find a way to send the note out even if it costs meter because you will force Faust to do something like jump, or crawl under note. If he were to normally poke you when a note is out, he would get hit.

 

@MrSoulo: I don't really have much to say if that is your 2nd match ever so I will tell you that you need to play more. Are you new to fighting games? It takes a while to get used to the neutral game on top of doing all the combos and mix ups. Some things you can work on are combos and setups in training mode. As you said you do need to keep an eye on your meter more. Find ways to utilize your meter like Note YRC, STBT YRC, HCL YRC airdash. As a general rule of thumb, if the opponent jumps in on you, you would want to be using 6P to beat their jump in.

 

@BlackAlpha: I've watched most of the footage. I noticed you tend to be mashing buttons A LOT. That's kinda what characters like Leo and Slayer WANT you to do as you have experienced in your GFs set against SuperJae. 

 

1. I really feel you need a good understanding of all of your defensive options: FD, IB, backdash, jumping out, Blitz Shield & mashing. It really felt to me even in your previous posts, you're just trying to find ways to beat X when it may not always be the best idea. Getting CH by Slayer is REALLY bad. IIRC you got dizzied at least twice and you took lots of damage from getting CH'd. Will elaborate more in section 2.

 

Specifically with Slayer, most of his buttons are negative on block aside from Dandy S > H but you can make that negative just by IBing the H and BAM. If you were to hit 2K right after that, you will CH slayer if he tries to do anything. K Mappa is punishable on IB with 2K since it becomes about -6 and 2K has a 5f start up and reaches pretty far.

 

2. So when Slayer has you in the corner, he can put on quite a bit of pressure. Instead of say mashing all the time, you can sj.iad and S dive if needed just to get out to midscreen and reset the situation. I saw you tried to do that one time but got air thrown. I would rather get air thrown all day than take a CH and lose 1/2 of my life, just sayin.

 

3. I've noticed you always end your midscreen confirms into HCL+ (HCL + follow up). What kind of knockdown you get dictates what oki options are available to you. An example would be ending your combo in HCL. In this case, you can do TK Note oki, dash VCL YRC, hoverdash airdash FFVCL (YRC), safe jump j.K/j.S. With HCL+, you're pretty limited since if you try to do note, your opponents will be able to jump out since you recover so late and they're about to get up. I think this would help your oki game a lot more.

 

4. Some thing I think you and every other I-No player should note is that if you use j.D FDC, that you will not gain meter as quickly. There is a cooldown on gaining meter when you have just used meter. I noticed the round that you were using it quite a bit on SuperJae, your meter hovered around 25 meter around that time and you did not gain much meter until a while later (First set of GFs Game 3 Round 2).

 

 

Thanks man. So #3 that was really just nerves because I rarely do the HCL ~ D in a combo when I play casually. Mostly just HCL on the ground for the knockdown into better pressure. I had 0 experience against slayer at this point so the reason I was mashing was to try and find the gaps in his pressure and maybe catch him with a 2k, didn't work out too well but had to try something than get my risc bar blown up and eat death (which happened anyway). Thanks for the advice though, I was really just nervous so I wasn't thinking about all my defensive options other than, block, find gap, run away or get combo.

 

The other thing that was blowing me up if you noticed was he did BDC mappa's on wakeup. I didn't know about this until I went into training last night and it really fucks with our oki. I'll post more about this in the slayer thread soon for anyone interested how to beat this because you can be sure good slayers will use this option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://youtu.be/od-xWk5LNiI

http://youtu.be/7r4CzbYZRR8

http://youtu.be/_ABBvU8rp5Y

http://youtu.be/gKV08egRHtA

All matches I feel I could and should have won especially the sol match I took his burst and got too hype then folded :( I feel I've gotta way better since my first video I posted but I'm still horrible so advice is welcome

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gonna try and bring this back to life recorded some netplay matches, learning match ups preparing for evo. I live in Colorado Springs, the guys I'm playing are in Denver which is a hour ago so we don't play often irl cause of my work schedule. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPauZ5ntTVM Me vs Denver Elphelt been one of the consistent top 3 placers up in denver

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxE8ZtwAcgA Me vs another denver guy, hes also been placing consistent top 3 with leo but played sin all set likely giving up leo. 

 

This is netplay so I was missing a few things, got random 5k instead of dash jk like I wanted but go ahead and be brutal, if it's something that only happened because of netplay I'll know but I want to hear it all. Help me get better guys. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gonna try and bring this back to life recorded some netplay matches, learning match ups preparing for evo. I live in Colorado Springs, the guys I'm playing are in Denver which is a hour ago so we don't play often irl cause of my work schedule. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPauZ5ntTVM Me vs Denver Elphelt been one of the consistent top 3 placers up in denver

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxE8ZtwAcgA Me vs another denver guy, hes also been placing consistent top 3 with leo but played sin all set likely giving up leo. 

 

This is netplay so I was missing a few things, got random 5k instead of dash jk like I wanted but go ahead and be brutal, if it's something that only happened because of netplay I'll know but I want to hear it all. Help me get better guys. 

English I-No. Mercy. Her combat voice is ugh but her announcer voice is pretty funny. That being said, can you 2K under Elphelt Shotgun? It looks like its at just the right height that you can disrespect it with 2K. Also may want to avoid bursting during setplay pressure. Gotta burst before the setplay starts otherwise you're trapped. Keep that in mind for vs Zato and Millia. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sup guys

 

I'm a marvel player trying to learn GG in Xrd, started with Sol til I switched to i-no about 2 weeks ago

 

http://youtu.be/yci1X4iXMi0?t=1h32m13s

 

there's a recent tournament match against beautifuldude, I'm still so wack lol

 

lots of times I didn't confirm hoverdash j.K because I didn't give myself enough time to get the j.S out

 

lots of times I didn't do hoverdash -> airdash -> FFVCL oki because I still have joke execution

 

last round had lots of bad dead angles

 

uhh there are some other tournament matches in there but you can't take them seriously, my local scene is fucking atrocious besides foo and beautifuldude so I joke around in them a lot

 

so, things I need to work on in neutral: if I go for dash j.K j.S and it gets blocked, I have a tendency to land and do another hoverdash. this loses to 6p so I do land 2k 2s as the counter to that, but the reward for me right now off that is too low because my oki off HCL is bad. need to get that FFVCL stuff on lock. also I could do something like j.K j.S j.D, but I don't understand how to confirm off of that 100% safely. seems like I have to jc forward, which is bad news if they blocked. could VCL YRC if I have meter but meh now I'm going a bit deep down the rabbit hole

 

in oki like I said I need to mix it up a bit more, get some TK note oki off knockdowns that aren't optimal. also need to bait bursts and dead angles a bit better. I know the proper punishes, just need to execute.

 

played some more matches with him today, had some gimmicks with hoverdash j.K j.S, land, hoverdash blitz shield which worked, and also hoverdash j.K j.S jc j.D FDC land 2K which sort of works, julian likes to mash so it doesn't work. it makes me sad, I have a gimmick with 66956 j.( K > S > K > P) xx pdive whiff > throw, but he mashed during the pdive. what a fucking asshole. anyway, if I'm missing anything in my neutral game or my oki game, please let me know. thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

snip

 

Just some quick thoughts:

 

-HCL is something a lot of experienced players expect from I-No so they try and bait it out and punish it. This was something dude was doing and he caught you a couple times with it. Depending on spacing, you may want to YRC it.

-You got some confirms in the corner but didn't do VCL loops; you coulda blown him up at times.

-For neutral you can also jD FDC to try and cross him up, or empty dash land into something else, or even just jD overhead.

-HCL~D into note oki can also work. It's not the best but it's better than nothing and wasting a knockdown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just some quick thoughts:

 

-HCL is something a lot of experienced players expect from I-No so they try and bait it out and punish it. This was something dude was doing and he caught you a couple times with it. Depending on spacing, you may want to YRC it.

-You got some confirms in the corner but didn't do VCL loops; you coulda blown him up at times.

-For neutral you can also jD FDC to try and cross him up, or empty dash land into something else, or even just jD overhead.

-HCL~D into note oki can also work. It's not the best but it's better than nothing and wasting a knockdown.

 

thanks for the tips -- combo optimization is an ongoing process and the neutral pointers are invaluable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the tips -- combo optimization is an ongoing process and the neutral pointers are invaluable. 

 

Oh I forgot one more point: 

-Full screen note is free for Zato and Leo since they can reflect it. Be careful with its use against them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*Sigh*  I just wrote up a very detailed post and Dustloop decided to eat it for no reason.  I'll try to give you the short version:

 

 

You want to use Note to press him to not use Little Eddie.  Shoot it near the ground 98% of the time to try to kill Little Eddie, which means he's going to either use the traversal move to get him to dodge it, or he'll unsummon.  Once the note gets close he'll Drunkard Shade.  If you're at the right spacing (don't Note from too close - try to do it at 2/3 screen or more) you can dash over the Note to punish Zato, but from too far away the best you'll get is HCL for knockdown.  If you have meter you can YRC for an airdash confirm over the note though.  This also kinda works vs Leo.  If he's in stance (allowing him to use the counter) shoot a Note along the gorund from about 2/3 screen away.  He can't jump over it or block it, so he has to reflect it.  You can now dash over it and punish, though just like with Zato if you're too far away the best you'll get is HCL.  If you extend too far in either of these situations you'll eat a CH 6P into a combo.

 

 

While BeautifulDude has a strong neutral game, his high/low mixup is actually really predictable.  If he's above a certain vertical height when coming at you with j.K, he's 99% of the time going for another j.K.  6K is now pretty easy to react to, so you mostly need to watch out for his command throws.  The last time I played against him, almost all of his damage came from confirms off of the Counter Hits I let him get away with in neutral and Damned Fang into Unblockable (I hate that you can't burst from OTG because of the throw).  Also, he plays pretty safe, so if you get in on him and he confirms that you're not dropping your pressure in some stupid way, he's going to Dead Angle.

 

 

I don't like the use of that particular airdash pressure string into a throw attempt.  When they block the j.P you want to go into 2K to not leave a gap, or j.D to try to mix them up, or VCL YRC as a frametrap if you think they'll disrespect you.  In the corner, that frame trap is going to lead to serious damage with a VCL loop because of the RISC you build with the pressure string and the lack of proration on the VCL.  However, this airdash string also gets blown up by FDing the first two hits (someone skinny like Zato will probably make the third j.K whiff, so he'll get a definite punish).  If you want to throw off of this you'll want to use different strings, and to prevent them from being conditioned you'll want to be using different strings from time to time anyway.

*Edit*  To add to this a little, a dive at the end of this string isn't going to hit because you're too low (someone that knows the matchup will disrespect on reaction), and dives are slower than j.D so it's even easier to disrespect than that option.  You're only going to catch someone with Dive > throw if they're really scared to hit a button.  You'd also want to use Kdive instead in this instance since it recovers 3 frames faster than Pdive.

 

 

j.K > j.P > j.S > j.K - the j.K at the end barely connects, and only if you get the string going fast enough after the airdash starts up.  Use for similar purposes as the string ending in j.P, but you can't really j.D at the end for a mixup.  The high/low in this case is more the j.K at the end.

 

j.K > j.S > j.H - the j.H whiffs depending on how early you start the string and how fast you chain.  This is the one that's most likely to allow you to throw, but only do it when you know they're scared, and try to condition with a non-whiff j.H first.  Most people will attempt to throw when they think you'll land and they'll get away with it because you'll either leave the gap, or wont (meaning they're still in block stun and 5H wont come out).

 

 

In most situations you can land into 2P and tick throw off of that anyway.  Also, don't be afraid to tick-throw off of Note from time to time.  You can also get away with walk-up throw if you condition them to not counter poke by using max-range meaty 6P oki, but that's pretty matchup specific and doesn't give you as much of a reward as before anyway (still good reward, but limited because of your meterless combo tools at that range - you're almost definitely going to have to use 5H > j.H > Sdive, and Sdive will scale your combo pretty bad on top of 6P's prorate).  I'll occasionally drop pressure on a dash in j.K/j.S to go for throw, but you rarely want to do this.  The reward isn't worth the risk most of the time.  It's the reward you get by scaring them into disrespecting you that you want.  That leads to VCL YRC actually hitting them on oki instead of your following mixup, which is huge damage in the corner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll add my 2 cents about some different things, though maybe not "better":

- eddie is one of the characters you can always land HCL on after sweep and still get TK note meaty. Trading a little damage here for a worse note on top of them, maybe something to mess with.

-I know you acknowledged already you need to mix it up more, but I just have to point out you went low 0 times on the initial mix-up, with made you rely more on the situation after blocked j.S which isn't so good.

-also no note yrc' which could just be a player preference or match up thing for you

-I would try to switch to hover dash S or K when attempting to punish drunkard shade reflecting a note, jHs is just too slow here I think

- you can try to hold dive after a jump if he gets mashy with drunkard shade for AA (especially after a bad iAd) let it go for a Wiff punish or YRC to safety

I kinda think you just need more time with her to add more "things" to your gameplay. I used to main Sol as well and one of the big differences is not having to base your oki off player tendencies because they can't account for all your options. So the more tricks/mix-ups/ect you implement smartly, the more your opponents are going to decide blocking just isn't an option and then you go from there. Again just my 2cents look forward to seeing your progress :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ya thanks for all the help, I'll try it all out and have some more videos soon. mostly it feels like I'm doing the right thing but I need to switch it up a bit more from going high to going low indeed, I'm kind of paranoid about people mashing or especially throwing if I go empty HD low (seriously, throws in this game are very WTF to a capcom player, why the hell do they beat meaties? why is there no tech?)

 

either way, helpful advice and I'll put it into practice soon, I'm a pretty quick learner!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×