[Xrd] Leo Whitefang vs Ky Kiske

[DaRealZil]

(Placeholder)

 

Discuss the Leo vs Ky matchup here.

[ziggy]

Is anyone struggling fighting Ky?

[Mal]

It's still annoying to fight him, but I don't think I'm struggling :P what are you having trouble with?

If he zones you you can just stay at a long range in BT stance reflecting his fireballs... if you reflect a 236Hs then you can go in.
Also hold back and press BT D to reflect his fireballs, then foward HS or S for the double fireball go in if you can YRC the HS.

At close range this is one matchup where I like to do 2HS to fish for CHs. It beats almost anything he throws at you, and you will win the trades and do a 209dmg combo on him (6HS, dash sK cS, etc)

If he is rushing you down, I guess be patient and focus on punishing bad greed severs and stun dippers

[yashanyu1]

A good Ky won't be throwing bad GS's or SD's very often.  This match feels pretty bad for Leo imo, probably 6-4 Ky's favor.

 

Disclaimer: I play Ky so just giving what I know.

 

Ky can literally zone him out for days, the argument of counter isn't great since you have to get into stance from full screen and like hell Ky will let you do so easily.  Leo fireball is a great answer to Ky's though but the problem being you have to charge means you won't have access to it every time you need it.  Grinders add even more pain to the equation as Ky can force a jump from Leo and will land a nice 2H from it a lot of the time.  If Leo doesn't jump Ky can just shoot enhanced stun edges and make more grinders.  Leo's crappy mobility does not help as you'll find yourself spending meter just to move forward at a quicker pace.  Though once Leo gets in its awful for Ky.  Ky has to either spend resources to get out or IB strings and throw Leo.  

[Mal]

Sorry, but if you throw 236S at full screen and Leo jumps it, there's nothing you can do outside of overdrives to stop him from getting in the stance. Of course it's even easier to see a 236HS and 236D and enter the stance before Ky can followup. So, from full screen I don't see how Ky can zone me for days.
After a reflect, Ky will be the one trying to jump my HS fireball most of the time.

The real range I don't like to be in this matchup is probably just outside of 5HS's reach.
 

[Tenryuga]

Sorry, but if you throw 236S at full screen and Leo jumps it, there's nothing you can do outside of overdrives to stop him from getting in the stance. Of course it's even easier to see a 236HS and 236D and enter the stance before Ky can followup. So, from full screen I don't see how Ky can zone me for days.

After a reflect, Ky will be the one trying to jump my HS fireball most of the time.

The real range I don't like to be in this matchup is probably just outside of 5HS's reach.

Leo stance doesn't do him much favors in this MU IMO. It's killing his mobility further and Ky will just setup grinders. Enhanced SE can't be reflected and since you can't block if you don't shield you are in danger of getting shocked.

I'm just speaking from the perspective of a Ky vs the Leo's I've faced; I don't feel like I have to give him more respect when he is in stance. Him being in stance says to me I can just IAD or go to the air for more space or J.D / 236D to put grinders out if I have sufficient space.

Whether you're in stance or not the combination of SE / CSE, Grinder enhanced SEs and f.S / 2.S / 5HS with 2H and 6P antiairs allow Ky to zone Leo out. Leo will get in for sure at some point though and when he does Ky is free. Ky's reversal is ass and loses to shield, as well as Brunhildr P I think. Like Yashanyu said unless we have resources you'll control the match.

All said and done I would agree this is 6-4 in Ky's favor. Because the only time Leo is any real threat is up close which he has to work to get into while Ky is a threat to him the minute the match starts and can get his turn a lot easier.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9780 using Tapatalk

[Mal]

Leo stance doesn't do him much favors in this MU IMO. It's killing his mobility further and Ky will just setup grinders. Enhanced SE can't be reflected and since you can't block if you don't shield you are in danger of getting shocked.

I'm just speaking from the perspective of a Ky vs the Leo's I've faced; I don't feel like I have to give him more respect when he is in stance. Him being in stance says to me I can just IAD or go to the air for more space or J.D / 236D to put grinders out if I have sufficient space.

 

Well, we were talking about full screen stance, which prevents Ky from zoning him for free (ie, gives time to setup his own HS fireball and do something)

Still I think you've been facing some bad Leos, Tenryu. BT D can block both (even HS, with good timing) Enhanced SEs, which in turn gives Leo time to try something else. You can't IAD on Leo for free because of the sweet BT P :D

But I do agree that the MU is in Ky's favor.

[Mal]

btw, Leo is probably invulnerable since you can't hit or throw him while he is doing the counter (will trigger the proximity counter), so it's not as bad a tool.

[Tenryuga]

Nah when I say IAD I meant to create space not to get in on Leo. And yeah BT parry does block the enhanced SE but it doesn't reflect it. You say this gives him time to try things; What options does this grant you? I'm curious because i haven't seen anything and this a MU I'd like to know more about myself because I get rekt when Leo's come in on me lmao. 

[Mal]

Well, it depends on what the Ky will do. I usually do [4]6+HS/S (yrc), 236+HS(yrc), BT D (if he SE's) if he tries to create space and zone more. If Ky tries something aggressive. another BT D or P.
The good thing is that after a BT D block, Leo is "invincible" and has options, but can be baited of course.

Normally I won't get zoned hard, but will probably get impatient and try dumb things if the Ky has good oki/pressure XD gotta use that bar for more DA attacks,I guess.

[ziggy]

Yeah, It was the obnoxious amount of projectiles and zoning and poking that I found overwelming. To be honest, I'll have to look up what some of these abbreviations are before I can fully understand what everything in this disscussion means.  I'm coming from using May, but thanks for responding =).  I am finding Ky a little less ridiculous, until he zones me in a corner.