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[Xrd] News & Gameplay Discussion 2 - Console is Out!

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It's the same when you deal with lil eddie (but with more options and eddie takes one for the team when counter hit).

 

Difference being that when you tap Eddie/Dizzy's fish/etc., they go away and can't be resummoned immediately.  Elphelt's grenade is going to win a fireball war and keep going, while also not having a forced cooldown between grenades.  Its effective startup is also somewhat curbed in being broken up into two smaller components, which makes it easier to safely bring into play.  It's a low-risk move with ridiculous potential reward that doesn't take a whole lot of thought to utilize, and gives a fair number of characters problems because of the manner in which it has to be respected.  And it's not like she's a one-trick pony; the rest of her kit ranges from solid to phenomenal, and her damage potential is among the best in the game.

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I personally have faith in Team Red since they balance things differently from Team Blue.  Remember that Zato and Faust have been consistently scary, I don't think Elph players have a lot to worry about in the long run.

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Difference being that when you tap Eddie/Dizzy's fish/etc., they go away and can't be resummoned immediately.  Elphelt's grenade is going to win a fireball war and keep going, while also not having a forced cooldown between grenades.  Its effective startup is also somewhat curbed in being broken up into two smaller components, which makes it easier to safely bring into play.  It's a low-risk move with ridiculous potential reward that doesn't take a whole lot of thought to utilize, and gives a fair number of characters problems because of the manner in which it has to be respected.  And it's not like she's a one-trick pony; the rest of her kit ranges from solid to phenomenal, and her damage potential is among the best in the game.

 

Uh, what? It absolutely has a timer / forced cooldown - those three seconds. It's not doing much winning fireball wars when it's sitting on the ground, the toss hitbox spent, waiting to explode. That's a lot longer of a reuse timer than any fireball in the game has. Dunno how you win a "fireball war" with a one-hit projectile fired every 200 frames?

 

 

I have a problem with being unable to play neutral because this rolling hitbox is neutralizing my projectiles (NOT EVEN TRADING) so I have to evade it or block.

You have a problem with note and CSE (and I guess FDB) too?

 

 

What about having her gernade not explode when elphelt is hit/forced to block. Like it turns out to be a dud or whatever.

 

IMO if you want to nerf Pineberry, take away Air OK from the draw grenade move. Right now you can bake it into movement which makes it pretty free, but if you have to do it grounded it'd introduce a Zato-like complication to getting grenades out safely.

 

Not that I endorse it, the move is ridiculously fun because it's so versatile. But that would be my preferred nerf probably.

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All this talk about nerfing pine and I just want to survive in the corner without having to worry about a certain death set up that involves just tossing pine and quick scoping me for the win. Yes I want unblockables nerfed to a point where it's at least a hell of a lot more viable to escape them or just remove the unblockable property of riffle stance but in turn buff it's overall utility. Elphelt's nade is pretty ridiculous but I don't feel the need to explain to go into detail when Fefnir already explained why it's just pure nonsense.

 

Quick scoping XD

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Uh, what? It absolutely has a timer / forced cooldown - those three seconds. It's not doing much winning fireball wars when it's sitting on the ground, the toss hitbox spent, waiting to explode. That's a lot longer of a reuse timer than any fireball in the game has. Dunno how you win a "fireball war" with a one-hit projectile fired every 200 frames?

 

Counting from the explosion, of course; it would be less of an issue if the attack wasn't divided into two components that hit with a variable amount of time between them (more like Faust's bomb toss) or if there was some way to stop the grenade (like pretty much every other projectile).  She wins traditional zoning bouts because her main projectile is a 2 for 1 deal that can be pulled and thrown while mobile, and can either go through or over incoming projectiles.  Nobody's going to try to throw another projectile if that grenade is still bouncing toward them; the initial hitbox being spent doesn't matter if the remaining time/trajectory will place the explosion near you, and Elphelt is free to play around how you react unless you threw something fast and durable at it.

 

There are other problems with her kit, but the grenade is going to catch a lot of flak because few characters have particularly good answers to it, which helps in raising her neutral game to being among the best - something you shouldn't have when you also have suffocating pressure, ridiculous damage, and unblockables without having any kind of resource management or real cooldown to balance it all out.

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It's the same when you deal with lil eddie (but with more options and eddie takes one for the team when counter hit).

Although I have not faced an experienced Zato 1, to my knowledge you're at least given the option to try and stop an unblockable from happening by killing lil Eddie. I'm pretty sure a competent Zato won't let that happen but at least you can try to twist the match in your favor so it doesn't happen often.

However I'm still new to the series competitively and I have found that Zato has much more terrifying factors about him putting any other experience I've had with a top tier to shame.

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If Potemkin gets buffs... I thought about it, and I'd love to see more shenanigans with his SPD.

I would love if he can get a better "scare" to give opponents on wake up. Being able to spd people on their wake up without waiting 10 years which allows them to poke you, jump, burst, random super, etc etc. Also, the ability to do say a 2P, and go into SPD would be great. Not on hit but on block. I generally get a big old whiff animation trying to set up tick set ups like Street Fighter 4.

That alone would make his Oki game vastly improved, and a knock down would force more people to do more simply than wake up DP or block with shield push back.

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I mean, pot buster stuff is fine. That's not the problem, besides you won't be opening decent people up with just pot buster to begin with

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If Potemkin gets buffs... I thought about it, and I'd love to see more shenanigans with his SPD.

I would love if he can get a better "scare" to give opponents on wake up. Being able to spd people on their wake up without waiting 10 years which allows them to poke you, jump, burst, random super, etc etc. Also, the ability to do say a 2P, and go into SPD would be great. Not on hit but on block. I generally get a big old whiff animation trying to set up tick set ups like Street Fighter 4.

That alone would make his Oki game vastly improved, and a knock down would force more people to do more simply than wake up DP or block with shield push back.

This is not SF4, everybody have to follow the rule of throw invu after stun/wake-up including potemkin

And the idea of being able to PB enemy on block is-i'm sorry-very stupid. Just rethink about it and you'll find out how stupid it is

For your fail on setting up tick throws, that's your own problem of calculate the timing to getout of oppo's invu frames, just practice

Seems like you're very new GG and to anime fighters in general

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SF4 has that rule too(though only on block/hitstun iirc) :3

That's why he did the comparison. SF4 you can have true tic throws in, GG/KOF/etc. protect you for a bit after waking up/leaving blockstun.

 

I like that Elphelt UBs are not OK but apparently meaty Pot Buster loops are :3

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If Potemkin gets buffs... I thought about it, and I'd love to see more shenanigans with his SPD.

I would love if he can get a better "scare" to give opponents on wake up. Being able to spd people on their wake up without waiting 10 years which allows them to poke you, jump, burst, random super, etc etc. Also, the ability to do say a 2P, and go into SPD would be great. Not on hit but on block. I generally get a big old whiff animation trying to set up tick set ups like Street Fighter 4.

That alone would make his Oki game vastly improved, and a knock down would force more people to do more simply than wake up DP or block with shield push back.

 

No. 

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Potemkin buffs would be giving 2S vacuum back and slidehead combo-ability. Making Heat Knuckle drop the opponent in front of you, et cetera.

And then people will be crying for nerf immediately, lol.

 

 

I think the number 1 problem with Xrd Potemkin is he doesn't have a reliable tool to deal with fuzzy jump and backdash - which have been the natural enemies of him from the first day of the GG series(yeah i mean properly used fuzzy jump/backdash). The 2S vaccuum fits near perfectly to this, if you play Pot you'll easily understand what i mean. With 2S vaccuum, you can make a callout for your oppo's backdash/fuzzy by S.f>2S>Heat, or even OS things like 2K,5K,fS to catch their backdash and punish with 2S>Heat. And than come the AC Heat that also fits very well for that. People will be scared of backdashing out of Pot because they'll be going to lose 1/3 of their HP, preparing to eat another okizeme and gave the Zepp Guardian like 40% tension.

 

 

Not to mention the pushback, 2S vaccuum also make things easier for Pot to deal with it.

So imo, 2S vaccum AND AC heat is more than enough, and that will be too huge buff for Pot

Just one out of two things, and life will be more easier

I'd prefer 2S vaccum more than AC heat though

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As has been suggested, the big problem a lot of people have with Pineberry is the stringent lack of thought or discrimination capable of still making it an effective tool for absolutely controlling neutral. Don't know what to do? Get 10 frames worth of spacetime and you can control the match for 180 frames. Go nuts. It's dumb. I don't even care about the unblockables. For all I care, she can keep those. I just don't want the chances of her running those setups against me to always be in her favor.

 

I don't know the best way to nerf the move while still making it a good move, but something has to be done. 

 

-Kimosabae 

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That's why he did the comparison. SF4 you can have true tic throws in, GG/KOF/etc. protect you for a bit after waking up/leaving blockstun.

I like that Elphelt UBs are not OK but apparently meaty Pot Buster loops are :3

Wtf are "true tick throws? "The throw Invul mechanics are almost identical.

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If Potemkin gets buffs... I thought about it, and I'd love to see more shenanigans with his SPD.

I would love if he can get a better "scare" to give opponents on wake up. Being able to spd people on their wake up without waiting 10 years which allows them to poke you, jump, burst, random super, etc etc. Also, the ability to do say a 2P, and go into SPD would be great. Not on hit but on block. I generally get a big old whiff animation trying to set up tick set ups like Street Fighter 4.

That alone would make his Oki game vastly improved, and a knock down would force more people to do more simply than wake up DP or block with shield push back.

are you asking for pot buster to be an unblockable hitgrab

 

I fully support this motion.

comboable pot buster, pot buster during blockstun, meaty pot buster all sound brilliant, especially if it keeps its range oh man, just imagine the unblockable 'setups'. If you block a normal you get pot bustered. oh man

:v

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SF4 offers only two frames of throw protection after leaving blockstun or waking up, while Xrd offers quite a bit more.

 

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV/Universal_Abilities/Throws#Non-Throwable_States

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Offense_%28GGXRD%29#Throw_Invincibility

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What I'm basically reading is that you guys want an already powerful throw engine better.  I can't see that happening.

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