[Xrd] News & Gameplay Discussion 2 - Console is Out!

[Maho]

Don't know about others characters but Leo's charge moves are 40f in 1.0 already.

[Hollysmoke]

So what exactly are the input changes they were talking about in the general mechanic changes?

[9:02 PM]

So what exactly are the input changes they were talking about in the general mechanic changes?

 

The only thing they mentioned specifically were "some specials" and overdrives. It's most likely some sort of input leniency for half circles and overdrive motions, which for me is not an unwelcome change. I like the leniency BB gives for distortions. The only things that had their inputs changed outright were overhead kiss and deadman's hand. 

[Fame96]

Is anyone having issues with the sever today? It feels abit sluggish and hard to get into matches.

[Syklone]

Wrong thread my man try the online gg boards

[MasterXDrake]

What do you guys think of the Leo changes?

[Pomparomp]

Is anyone having issues with the sever today? It feels abit sluggish and hard to get into matches.

PSN does that sometimes.

[king of heart]

It seems that i will appear on TV Tokyo getting beat up by Sharon and 2Rio lol.

[D.R.F.]

It seems that i will appear on TV Tokyo getting beat up by Sharon and 2Rio lol.

[GSD-SPL]

So do the JP players not care about input override or what?

 

I seriously thought that with the increased frame buffer that GG players would be pining for an input override.

[SynikaL]

Could someone breakdown input override for me? I mean, I "get it" via the contexts it's used, but I've never seen it strictly defined or articulated. 

[4r5]

Input override, like how tapping guard in virtua fighter will clear the input buffer?

[SynikaL]

Maybe I don't get it then? From Context, I assumed it was giving priority to one special over another, that may have motions that could be similar to one another, and input leniency is an issue, such as 236/623. 

 

But the VF reference makes more sense. I forgot VF even did that and didn't know it had a technical term. 

 

Yes, that's something I want in all my fighting games. 

[GSD-SPL]

Could someone breakdown input override for me? I mean, I "get it" via the contexts it's used, but I've never seen it strictly defined or articulated. 

If a game has a frame buffer, any sort of forward movement followed by a quarter-circle or half-circle move will get you a DP if the character has a DP move. DPs tend to take to priority over QCF and HCF moves. It really has to be one or the other if you have a frame buffer. An input override lets you choose yourself. Exceptions like what I said about BB CP 1.0 are possible, but not the norm.

 

I'll compare NESTS Kyo and Sol Badguy with the way KoF handles it;

 

If you wanted to do a running flame punch with NESTS Kyo (236+A), instead of a DP, you would dash for however long you want and do 2369+A, holding the up-foward until you press the button, and if you press it fast enough, would cancel the pre-jump frames, just like jump-installing in GG. If you wanted to do a Fafnir with Sol, you could do 412369+H and not worry about a Volcanic Viper coming out. The way it is now, you would have to wait for the frame buffer to end or you will get an accidental DP.

 

To put it simply, Input Overrides say "Fuck you" to Frame Buffers and let you throw out whatever move you want, when you want. In the context of the post you made earlier, if you did a f.S with Ky after a forward step or dash, you could do 2369S to guarentee you got a Stun Edge out on the earliest frames and not have to worry about an accidental VT. Assuming GG had an Input Override.

[4r5]

Oh, you mean an additional input for a special move. I would not be surprised if not offering that was a conscious decision.

[GKHiryu]

Wouldn't just locking the inputs solve all the problems? That is, if you want 236X, the only way to get it is to press 6 and X? 3 wouldn't work, 9 wouldn't work, just 6. Similarly with DP, it would only come out when dp motion ends with 3+X. I know it's been done in SF4 recently for a few moves and as much as SF4's frame buffer is all over the place that seems like a good idea.

 

Afterthough: I guess there would be a problem with how TK motions work, but then if moves would only register on 6/9+X or 3/9+X that solves the issue too, right?

[daymendou]

4gamer wiki updated with a dictionary. And there's a very interesting little picture there:

 

 

 

Are we finally getting hitboxes????

[Coffeeling]

Maybe I don't get it then? From Context, I assumed it was giving priority to one special over another, that may have motions that could be similar to one another, and input leniency is an issue, such as 236/623. 

 

But the VF reference makes more sense. I forgot VF even did that and didn't know it had a technical term. 

 

Yes, that's something I want in all my fighting games. 

 

In KOF13 and SF4, specifically, walk forward QCF gets you a DP. This is because:

1. DPs have higher input priority than fireballs. This wouldn't necessarily be a problem except:

2. SF accepts "any forward, any down, any forward" as a DP input and KOF accepts both the classic 623 and 626 as DP inputs. (This is why there are all the hcb~f style "longcuts").

 

Combine those with a longish buffer so inputs don't decay very fast and you get problems. It's literally impossible to do walk/dash forward fireballs at the earliest cancel point in those games - this applies to things like Iori's BnB into block: cr.B, cl.B, f+A, qcf+A - if you want to do it cleanly, you have to wait until the fireball almost doesn't combo or you will get a DP. Same with SF4, where walk forward, cr.mk xx fireball is literally impossible at the fastest timings. You'll just do cr.mk xx (usually heavy) DP and get torn a new arsehole for it.

 

The 9 override allows you to unequivocally tell the game you want a fireball, and it will give you a fireball.

 

The ideal solution, of course, would be strict inputs but people would probably cry if that happened in a modern game.

[RoBoBOBR]

http://wiki.4gamer.net/ggxrd/%E5%9F%BA%E7%A4%8E%E3%83%87%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BF%E4%B8%80%E8%A6%A7

 

contains a lot of info (like weight, dash velocity n shit) and throw ranges in screenshots! very useful

[Nyaa]

SF4 input shortcuts are fun to mess around with if you play with a hitbox. If you walk forward (hold f) you only have to tap down then press punch to get a dp.

 

 

http://wiki.4gamer.net/ggxrd/%E5%9F%BA%E7%A4%8E%E3%83%87%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BF%E4%B8%80%E8%A6%A7

 

contains a lot of info (like weight, dash velocity n shit) and throw ranges in screenshots! very useful

 

I like how google translates that page. "Swoon endurance value". :D    swoon

[StylisH]

What do you guys think of the Leo changes?

 

Still to early to tell, but it looks like he got a bit better, although he could use some help with mobility.  Full screen projectile will be a big help against zoners however IMO.

[fishnet]

May

Horizontal and Vertical Dolphin needs more priority against normal attacks (kicks and punches)

Whale super needs to be a bit faster (7 frames)

Applause for the Victim has all four hoops appear at the same time, but the button used to activate it is where the Dolphin goes



Bedman

Deja Vu midair-able

Regular (non-Deja Vu) Task C cancels and goes through regular projectiles only in the first 5 frames

Regular (non-Deja Vu) Air Task C has priority over normal attacks (kicks and punches)


Venom

Teleport fully invincible from frame 1

Bishop Runout has no cooldown and causes more chip damage


Leo

A manual activation of stance mode with 236K that takes 3 frames to enter afterward


Potemkin

Forward Megafist +1 on block

Heat Knuckle 10 frames of startup down from 14


 

[9:02 PM]

Venom

Teleport fully invincible from frame 1

Oh my dear sweet god in heaven, no.

[GSD-SPL]

Oh, you mean an additional input for a special move. I would not be surprised if not offering that was a conscious decision.

So would you guys say a characters moveset is entirely balanced around it? It suprises me that they would increase the frame buffer if that's the case, even it's just 1 frame. 3 frame really isn't that much shorter than a 5 frame buffer and will just cause more trouble than it solves without an input override, imo. I probably just don't know the game well enough, so could you guys bring up some scenarios where it would make a char too powerful in neutral? It certainly doesn't cause any problems in KoF but I know that's an entirely different beast.

 

Wouldn't just locking the inputs solve all the problems? That is, if you want 236X, the only way to get it is to press 6 and X? 3 wouldn't work, 9 wouldn't work, just 6. Similarly with DP, it would only come out when dp motion ends with 3+X. I know it's been done in SF4 recently for a few moves and as much as SF4's frame buffer is all over the place that seems like a good idea.

 

Afterthough: I guess there would be a problem with how TK motions work, but then if moves would only register on 6/9+X or 3/9+X that solves the issue too, right?

They tried that with character specific stuff in BB CP 1.0 and I think they took it out because people complained.

[FinalDoomGuy]

So would you guys say a characters moveset is entirely balanced around it? It suprises me that they would increase the frame buffer if that's the case, even it's just 1 frame. 3 frame really isn't that much shorter than a 5 frame buffer and will just cause more trouble than it solves without an input override, imo. I probably just don't know the game well enough, so could you guys bring up some scenarios where it would make a char too powerful in neutral? It certainly doesn't cause any problems in KoF but I know that's an entirely different beast.

 

They tried that with character specific stuff in BB CP 1.0 and I think they took it out because people complained.

Ragna's input shortcut in 1.0 was pretty dumb, with 6236D being a hadouken motion instead of a shoryuken motion. 1.1 lets me do both really easily so it was a good idea reverting/changing it to making 6236D D ID instead of DS.