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[Xrd] News & Gameplay Discussion 2 - Console is Out!

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We all know that Venom is the character with the best neutral game of the entire cast, but that's not enough reason to say is a bad matchup for Ky.

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We all know that Venom is the character with the best neutral game of the entire cast, but that's not enough reason to say is a bad matchup for Ky.

Wow I know this is April Fool's day, but you are killing me man. Lol almost hurt me as much as the ky vs Ram thing

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So then why does he eventually go back to Ky in every version of GG thus far? He also seems to get amazing results with Ky on top of that.

 

I also acknowledge Ky's weaknesses as a character as well. I think this si why they're had such a hard time balancing him in the past, and this being one of his better versions without being braindead. Reminds me of how they have such a hard time balancing Hakumen as well, but that's a bit off topic. I feel like Ky's design, essentially a street fighter character who was given better damage and ex fireballs, does not belong in the build and design of GG as a fighting game. So they have a hard time giving him the right tools he needs to deal with the more wackier options other characters have.

 

And I feel like this bleeds into what you said about why people don't really play Ky at high level. I mean if anything his major buffs are street fighter-esk buffs lol, ex fireballs, that says a lot in my opinion.

Here's my unneeded opinion:

 

 Ky hasn't really changed very much at all over the course of the series. If Machaboo is the type of player that strongly prefers good odds of winning then Ky is a good choice for every game early in it's shelf life because you can jump right in and begin playing with most tools without having to adjust much at all. Later, when everyone's settled into their characters and more of the game is known, you can simply make the switch to characters that have an easier time winning because by now everyone's caught on.

 

Ky's not an overpowered character by any means but he has an option for most every-day scenarios. If you're a strong player in general then you'll always do alright. When another good player comes around with a character that has more fringe options, then you'll run into problem. I firmly believe that, while Ky's design may not be 100% GG (I'd say that falls more to Sol), he would absolutely be at the dead center of a chart on character potential/ability. Practically everything about him is sensible, not crazy yet not terrible.

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About Neutral games: I've played as Ky and I've played as Venom... Ky is easier to get out of pressure trouble with IMHO.

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We all know that Venom is very squishy in comparison to Ky. Also wtf does 100% GG mean

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100% GG means Anji landed crossup IK on you.

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We all know that Venom is very squishy in comparison to Ky. Also wtf does 100% GG mean

 

Some things are lost in text. Basically, of the cast of characters, I feel Sol's playstyle embodies the core of GG: Aggressive and at least a bit flashy. While Ky benefits from most all of GG's subsystems, he doesn't really have to play the same game.

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I noticed some discrepancies in how projectiles work during super flash.  Not sure if this was ever talked about before, but uh...

 

 

So, in older games, I think projectiles kept moving during all super flashes?  I'm noticing that if I shoot a note and then use Desperation, the note stops moving until after the cinematic.  If I shoot a note and use Fortissimo it keeps moving during the flash.  This was an old gimmick to catch someone with their pants down.  (note to self: try this again tomorrow but see what happens if I throw in YRC)

 

This is inconsistent with May.  If I pull out a Dolphin and do Whiner (reversal super) or Whirlwind, both of which are non-cinematic supers, the dolphins stay put until after the flash.  If I pull out a Dolphin hoop and then use the Whale super, I can release the Dolphin during the cinematic and have it hit during the cinematic.  You can straight up pause and see the the other character getting hit, and the dolphin bouncing in front of May's face as she's posing.  And then the Whale actually combos off of the dolphin.

 

 

The projectiles are not affected by the other character's super.  So if I shoot a note and May calls a Whale, the note wont keep moving during the cinematic.

 

 

I couldn't find any repro with Faust's kit (item > item super / item > kancho super / exploding head bag > YRC > either super).  I also know that Elphelt's grenades are weird and the timer actually counts down during cinematic supers, including Desperation, so it might be possible to run her out of time and make her blow herself up.  This stuff seems way more character/move specific than before, so we'll have to check a lot of combinations if it hasn't already been done... :psyduck:

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Yes, Venom can take two seconds off Elphelt grenade with Dark Angel since the cinematic is really long. She has to blitz or backdash on the exact frame the cinematic ends, which basically translates to impossible to do consistently.

Also Whirlwind does have a cinematic, it's just a really short one.

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presumably, cinematic startups don't trigger the glitch. that's what i noticed with ky

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Proof that this is not an April Fool's joke, but indeed a bug that needs fixing..  :psyduck:

I'd say this is the least fix-needing bug in the game. Console version of 1.1 fixes still not having release date nagging etc etc.

 

But aside from that, he looks even more scary at the very end of IK, where he's stationary and camera is centered on where his head should be. If you haven't seen the IK too many times you could even not notice the lack of head during "drilling through earth" part.

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The headless Sol is the stuff of nightmares. I'm glad they gave him special animations for cinematic supers when in DI (except Venom IK, but that's no biggie), My favorite ones are definitely Faust super and Elph's cake - the yellow-mouthed face of fear is priceless.

 

Also, it seems the Blitz Shield change from 1.1 hasn't affected anyone's gameplan much just yet. I talked to a friend who's been playing 1.1 Venom for a while now, and he said some people attempt the BS projectile rejection, but it rarely works, and eating a counter hit is not really worth trying. I saw a few rejects happen here and there (mostly on Elphelt's grenade used in shotgun pressure, which is just awesome, because that stuff was dumb), but nothing significantly gamechanging.

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About BlitzShield in 1.1... how does it work on stuff like I-No's Note projectile or Sin's Voltec Dein or Ky's Sacred Edge?

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As far as the note I guess that if she's too close as the first hit happens she'll get rejected. The other two examples are unaffected, because you can't Blitz Shield Overdrives, but I assume you just meant multi-hit projectiles. You can do rapid Blitz Shield to guard yourself from Ky's Charged Stun Edge, so you might be able to get it on other slow projectiles too (although it's not gonna be worth it anymore, now that you won't regain Tension for it), but I think it's specific projectile dependent.

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So apparently there's an option select that has to do with plinking buttons when you YRC.  Basically, if you have 50+% meter and would RC on hit or YRC on whiff, this method makes it so that you YRC on whiff, but you don't RC on hit.  Mike Z showed me the twitter post last night at UGC.  I was able to find the youtube video, but I can't find the detailed information about how to actually do it.  Does anyone know more or know where to find that info?

 

 

This is a kind of important option select.  YRC is looking more and more insane as people test it.

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Looks broken as hell... might have something to do with button priority, maybe you can't plink RC but YRC can be plinked? I have to test that. Might be the most broken thing in the game so far...

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Yeah, that's pretty bad.  We have this.

 

We have YRC with invul frames.

 

We have this thing I still don't fully understand where you can YRC a move without the 6 frames of startup.  There's the known version with projectiles where you do the input as the projectile starts (like VCL), and when the projectile makes contact it becomes YRC instead of RC (you can do stuff like I-No 5P/j.P > VCL as a gatling and YRC it on the hit if you're frame perfect).  However, if you do something like I-No's 2P > 2H as an example, which has a 2 frame gap on block (1-frame on hit), you can YRC during that gap even if you have 50+% meter.  Normally under those conditions if you attempt to YRC and make contact during the 6 frame startup, you get RC when you make contact (try it with I-No's dives).  I noticed it because you can use Desperation super, then YRC during the 2 frame window before the projectile hits, and the projectile actually goes away.  Another example is I-No 5K > f.S.  For whatever reason the game decides the startup isn't going to apply and does YRC before the next hit makes contact.  This makes frame traps super powerful if you have 25%.  And it's confusing because you're not buffering a YRC either.  You have 50%+ meter so if the gap hasn't started up yet, you'll just get RRC.

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we were testing it about half a month ago

https://youtu.be/_EAFyTxDQhY

read the youtube description. i tweeted a bunch of things about it but it's been buried under half a month of tweets so if you really do want to read it go dig i guess idk

 

edit: nvm it's not that far down cause most of my tweets are @ people. it's on march 18th

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So, if I understand the description right, it's like this:

RC can only be done during or after hitstop. So if you input RC when the enemy is in hitstun/blockstun, but you're already doing the next move (so it's before hitstop for this one - does that histop requirement reset as you move on to the next hit? Seems pretty pointless) and the enemy leaves hitstun/blockstun for some reason, you'll get a YRC (which doesn't have the hitstop requirement)? Seems gimmicky as hell and not very practical for anything beyond obvious baits... I hope that's the case, because it seems too good to be easy and abuseable. 

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yeah the video was just demonstrating that it wasn't that YRC has a more lenient plink timing than RRC. so i didn't really explain it much cause i already tweeted out the explanation.

RRC only registers buttons presses after (or during maybe i'm not sure) hitstop, so you have the hitstop occur midway through your plink.

so the RRC detection basically detect one or two button presses only. but since YRC doesn't care about hitstop, it detects all three, and so if it's YRCable situation, then YRC comes out.

 

what is strange is that even though the opponent was already in hit or blockstun before hitstop, it still OSes the RC. that's the part where i said i think it's because each instance of hitstop resets the RRC detection.

 

It's really super finicky, i can't get it consistent at all

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We have this thing I still don't fully understand where you can YRC a move without the 6 frames of startup.  There's the known version with projectiles where you do the input as the projectile starts (like VCL), and when the projectile makes contact it becomes YRC instead of RC (you can do stuff like I-No 5P/j.P > VCL as a gatling and YRC it on the hit if you're frame perfect).  However, if you do something like I-No's 2P > 2H as an example, which has a 2 frame gap on block (1-frame on hit), you can YRC during that gap even if you have 50+% meter.  Normally under those conditions if you attempt to YRC and make contact during the 6 frame startup, you get RC when you make contact (try it with I-No's dives).  I noticed it because you can use Desperation super, then YRC during the 2 frame window before the projectile hits, and the projectile actually goes away.  Another example is I-No 5K > f.S.  For whatever reason the game decides the startup isn't going to apply and does YRC before the next hit makes contact.  This makes frame traps super powerful if you have 25%.  And it's confusing because you're not buffering a YRC either.  You have 50%+ meter so if the gap hasn't started up yet, you'll just get RRC.

I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding how YRC works or something. As soon as you input the RC motion, you immediately stop whatever you were doing. So any physical hit (like 2P > 2H example) the hitbox never comes out at all because the 2H was canceled. It isn't 'without the 6F of startup', the YRC startup is it's own animation with no hitbox so there's no way anything could hit.

The reason you get weird stuff like having hit people with a projectile and still gotten a YRC is because the color of the RC is determined at the time you start it, and on top of that some projectiles will continue to spawn/exist regardless of if you YRC the startup or not. So in the VCL case, you are inputting the YRC before the projectile connects at all, but it continues to exist and go active and hits the other person during the YRC startup time. Ky's CSE is one of the easiest places to see this in action.

How projectiles behave during a YRC is on a per-move basis. Sometimes you get funny stuff like "you can YRC before the projectile exists and it still comes out" and sometimes you get stuff like Trisula where "The projectile doesn't come out unless you cancel the move after the projectile is already active."

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