Poultrygeist Report post Posted September 12, 2015 Which made him godlike in every version before +R, right? Backdashes are such a red herring. Go watch your last online replay and framestep to see how many frames you spend not blocking every time you try to churn out a backdash.It was enough for Relius to get his amazing backdash mercilessly gutted in CP 1.1 : (I don't care that it's a different game, I'm still not over that! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magaki Report post Posted September 12, 2015 Which made him godlike in every version before +R, right? Backdashes are such a red herring. Go watch your last online replay and framestep to see how many frames you spend not blocking every time you try to churn out a backdash.I actually was mostly joking about that but if you would like to talk about it, sure.First, thing you need to keep in mind is that it's not because a character got moves obviously designed with questionable designs that he's gonna be godlike as his strength will obviously be a matter of synergy with his moveset and his matchups.Also, it's not because a character isn't broken that you have to ignore decisions made concerning said character's direction with "Ohh but he's shit so who cares". Especially if they could have done something else.Would you consider that Dog's 2D being unblockable in every versions before +R was a great choice that led to smarter plays ? Something that was actually removed in +R most likely due to corner fS>dog 2D already being a hilarious yet efficient way to wrap up a round that became even better with the puddle getting a hitbox.Would you also say that Dog being able to attack while you were in blockstun was an interesting idea ?Would you mention that having an FRC point on Sword 623H was a good idea while neutral and conversions with the swords prior to +R truly weren't that great making it the worse summon ? I sure remember Mitsurugi canceling it almost everytime he ended up with it.Was Raoh's super and its huge chip damage and range great design too ? Not to mention its rewards on hit either. While its true that prior to +R, instant Raoh combo were either situationnal or required a lot of tension; Raoh himself got a very good tension gain which coupled with Zappa's high tension pulse allowed to get back the tension used to get him quite fast.And thus, finally, is it smart to give him a backdash that can only be punished on one specific frame ? Speaking of Mitsurugi that I mentionned above, remember how much he loved backdashing like crazy in the corner and punished the opponent afterwards for whiffing a move ?He sure had and still have quite a lot of very weird design choices that were indeed quite useful prior to +R to win rounds while making your opponent ultra salty. Points that I actually loved to use as I've mained him since #R. Whether I love it or not though, you don't need to be a genius to figure out that they could have chosen to tone down all those options and improve his summons better.Something that I would have loved to see them do. Which they did in +R. And in that version, it clearly was too much.And finally, what kind of argument is that ?"see how many frames you spend not blocking every time you try to churn out a backdash"As if mashing 44444 was the only way to use a backdash. Ever heard of defensive options like fuzzy backdashes ? Or IB backdash ?Obviously if you don't use correctly a defensive option or vary them you're gonna get blown up.Same logic as if you use a character wrong or become too predictable result in you losing hard.I would also like to point out that even if you do manage to punish his backdash which will require a hard read, you won't even get a counter hit and you will be quite far unless the backdash was done in the corner. And not every character can punish that tensionless and get a knockdown afterwards. Or even get enough damage to make the Zappa player think that backdashing is a very bad idea.But the worst thing isn't that the backdash only got 1f of punishable recovery but it's a combination of both a VERY FAST backdash and a timing of 1f to punish it.If it had 25f duration for 24f invul, this would have been different but it isn't.Also, it's not a backdash that is specific to just one summon like the defensive options the sword and the dog provides but it's UNIVERSAL for ALL HIS MODES.That means that if you just look at the backdash's frame data itself, you're doing it wrong.You need to consider that he can also fuzzy jump, mash, DP, DP RC, Super(which had and still got a hilarious pushback while only being -15 meaning not everyone can punish it on block), 6P to beat body attacks/5K to beat feet attacks AND backdash.All of those are his defensive options. Does he really need that backdash this badly ? Before +R, do you really think that toning it down and improve other points were a decision that was unthinkable for the devs ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9:02 PM Report post Posted September 12, 2015 snipYes, in spite of the fact that it can sometimes muddy the water in terms of balance or create situations that momentarily detract from the enjoyment of one or both of the players, I like that characters in Guilty Gear often have unorthodox tools that force you to think outside the box or play beyond your immediate comfort zone, and it is (in my opinion) a good design philosophy. I think the diversity of characters and tool sets is the primary reason why strong players' self-expression is so much more apparent in Guilty Gear compared to other fighting games.We're not going to find any common ground on the backdash thing, I found that analysis totally bizarre. I think a lack of consideration for both the concept of active frames and the litany of safe/high percentage anti-backdash strategies and option selects available to the attacking player are leading you to greatly overestimate the utility of backdashing as a defensive tool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tokkan Report post Posted September 14, 2015 http://www.inside-games.jp/article/2015/09/14/91152.htmlRevelator on consoles in Spring. PS3 and PS4. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Poultrygeist Report post Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) >PS3LELAnd yall said it wouldn't happen. Bet you feel really silly for all that antagonism, huh? Edited September 14, 2015 by Poultrygeist Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grim-reaper Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Elitist haters gonna hate !ALL HAIL POVERTY ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Labrys31 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Not bad wait time I guess. Spring. Also why would people say revelator wouldn't come to ps3 anyways?Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grim-reaper Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Because dumb people who think they're making smart points exist.For me, until dark souls 3 and sf5 come out. Nothing justifies getting a ps4 at the moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Badgerine Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Spring is sooner than I was expecting. Xrd SIGN had an almost year long gap between the arcade and console release right? Looking forward to Jack-O'ing it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moogster Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Regarding the Revelator console release, they will be changing a lot of stuff right? It won't feel right if they just add characters for a console release. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Labrys31 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Well they will update story probably. Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ivanchu77 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 FUCK YES PS3 VERSION CONFIRMED!!!!gotta enjoy the free online and higher online activity for at least 1 more game, so happy :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zedar90 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Spring is sooner than I was expecting. Xrd SIGN had an almost year long gap between the arcade and console release right? Looking forward to Jack-O'ing it up.Sign was a little over 9 months. So if for example Revelator would be released in the end of April, it would be 8 months. So it's a little faster, a month, two or three probably.Regarding the Revelator console release, they will be changing a lot of stuff right? It won't feel right if they just add characters for a console release.Expect the same balance as the one is in arcade right now. If it continues like before, it will get a new balance update a little time after the console characters have been added to the arcade. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kosmos badgirl Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Spring?, never expected to be released so soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SQNR Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Expected news, but it's nice to hear regardless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
This Man Report post Posted September 14, 2015 A new disc?Surprised they'll go head to head with SF5. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moogster Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Expect the same balance as the one is in arcade right now. If it continues like before, it will get a new balance update a little time after the console characters have been added to the arcade.Hmm, I do hope they add/change mechanics and balanced updates before releasing the console version. It will feel a little bit kind of a rip off (only in my opinion) if they just add new characters and the new story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grim-reaper Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Pretty sure jam will be released with the game alongside her update's changes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vulcan422 Report post Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) Whoa, Spring release? That soon? Now that's certainly a pleasant surprise.This has got me thinking there may be some interesting plans in the works regarding future updates for the game. Edited September 14, 2015 by Vulcan422 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jocelot Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Noiiiiiiiiice. Looking forward to it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oniros Report post Posted September 14, 2015 FUCK YES PS3 VERSION CONFIRMED!!!!gotta enjoy the free online and higher online activity for at least 1 more game, so happy :DOnline pool of players is shared, if they keep doing it like in -Sign-. Either way, I can't wait to body people online with my inferior version lol. ^_^ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aegis High Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Yeaaah, Baby!!! PS3 version, Jam, free online, haters gonna hate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LockedAndClush Report post Posted September 14, 2015 Spring 2016? That's enough time for HOS to win the polls and get made. I'm happy. /s (though one may dream). I'm glad it's on PS3. Hopefully they can refine the online modes a bit. I'm not necessarily talking about the netcode, though any and all improvements are welcome. More like the interface and all that. I'm pretty used to it by now, but it's extremely unintuitive at first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Layer Report post Posted September 14, 2015 A more refined version of the netcode would be asking too much of Arcsys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dosu Report post Posted September 14, 2015 My PS3 lives another year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites