Jump to content
Anne

[Xrd] News & Gameplay Discussion 2 - Console is Out!

Recommended Posts

19 hours ago, Poultrygeist said:

I hope the pizza cutter (j.2S) makes it in but I'm not holding my breath.  

The problem is that her most fun creation is ac and +r. Reload dizzy had a few things being 2d ranges and special cancel frc with ice spike allowing unporated damage (need some confirm).

Besides that not having j2s and holding air pike feel strange. And of course double fish input... so I'm not really a fan of reload dizzy even though her normals were sightly better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, zaeris said:

The problem is that her most fun creation is ac and +r. Reload dizzy had a few things being 2d ranges and special cancel frc with ice spike allowing unporated damage (need some confirm).

Besides that not having j2s and holding air pike feel strange. And of course double fish input... so I'm not really a fan of reload dizzy even though her normals were sightly better.

I think most people would agree that the bold part is true for pretty much all characters. I can't recall many people here on Dustloop being stoked about their favorite character being reduced back to Reload status. But we all take what we can get. Dizzy players will just have to hope that Arcsys decide to bring back some of her fun things from +R.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am betting we will be getting the hold pike thing and double fish

But I wouldn't mind Reload Dizzy. She was fun

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Jocelot said:

I'm kinda surprised at Jack-O being top 5 in the usage list tbh. But then again so are Johnny and Jam so it's probably new character hype (plus Johnny is good sooooooooo)

On the one hand I'm not super surprised because new and shiny usually equals popular.  On the other hand she plays kind of weird and from having watched matches I'm not sure that people are all that close to figuring out how she should be played yet.  I guess "new and shiny" is winning out.  Also unless there's really something I'm missing it feels like not enough people are using the kamikaze minions.

14 hours ago, iBeK3n said:

@Nobus: I don't entirely agree with your point. But the fact that a fellow GG old man would mention Werdum (or any obscure MMA/UFC champ) makes me think we now have to be Dustloop best buddies.

My example called for a current UFC champion who had at least one weight class on me (not that Daniel Cormier couldn't also kick my ass).  Plus Werdum seems like a pretty cool guy so he'd probably just try to finish someone who's obviously overmatched ASAP as opposed to drawing out the fight to prove a point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know what to expect about Dizzy.

They did an awesome job with Millia, they got rid of her Lust Shaker follow up (Awesome and fun combos out of that) but that's a change I can live without no problem, then they got rid of her jHS by replacing it with j2HS but they made it so that jD would come quicker so that her combos could feel the same way we were used to; finally they mixed together her HS Tandem Top with the 25% tension one (slowish startup, two hits disc); Millia had some substantial changes but her power and gameplay style is pretty much the same of older games (At least that's the feeling I got)

And then we got Jam who's so underwhelming that even hardcore Jam players like Teresa says that she's pretty bad and that you don't get a good enough of a reward for all the effort.

My best guess is that Dizzy will retain j2S and 2 button fishes (I believe this with Millia's Tandem Top in mind); I don't know what they're going to do with her ice spike though, ice spike with proration and lower recovery frames would allow her to make some fun combos without ridiculous amounts of damage now that we don't have FRC. Also I want to see how are they going to deal with her bubbles because I feel like they could become a bit overwhelming with Xrd's Roman Cancel system.

I'm freaking excited about my 2nd favorite character being incorporated to the game, can't wait to see her combo routes, how will she play and most important how glorious will she look with Xrd's art style and new design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, MX_Engellier said:

I don't know what to expect about Dizzy.

They did an awesome job with Millia, they got rid of her Lust Shaker follow up (Awesome and fun combos out of that) but that's a change I can live without no problem, then they got rid of her jHS by replacing it with j2HS but they made it so that jD would come quicker so that her combos could feel the same way we were used to; finally they mixed together her HS Tandem Top with the 25% tension one (slowish startup, two hits disc); Millia had some substantial changes but her power and gameplay style is pretty much the same of older games (At least that's the feeling I got)

And then we got Jam who's so underwhelming that even hardcore Jam players like Teresa says that she's pretty bad and that you don't get a good enough of a reward for all the effort.

My best guess is that Dizzy will retain j2S and 2 button fishes (I believe this with Millia's Tandem Top in mind); I don't know what they're going to do with her ice spike though, ice spike with proration and lower recovery frames would allow her to make some fun combos without ridiculous amounts of damage now that we don't have FRC. Also I want to see how are they going to deal with her bubbles because I feel like they could become a bit overwhelming with Xrd's Roman Cancel system.

I'm freaking excited about my 2nd favorite character being incorporated to the game, can't wait to see her combo routes, how will she play and most important how glorious will she look with Xrd's art style and new design.

There's no way Dizzy will get that much of what she had in AC and +R. Even with Millia, j.D just became jump cancellable and she still lost alternate angles on her pin. Dizzy retaining j.2S or two actions with one fish summon isn't a best guess, just a hope that will be dashed whenever she finally makes it into the game. At most, she might get a new option for high-low mix-up and changes to her fish to accommodate the potentially more aggressive playstyle Pachi would like to design her with, and even that might be expecting too much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hated dizzy's jump 2s and the double fish, so I'm super hyped for a reload version. She's definitely my favorite version.  Jump 2s made redundant so much of her air moves it jus became a go to in so many situation, did not promote thinking. That's not even going into how stupid iad 2s overhead was.  

 

The double tap fish was WAY too strong in neutral for characters that had trouble with it. I had never in reload felt "man, getting a fish out isn't good enough!" It almost always lead to at least one mixup which was all it should.  The double fish also was stupid good for oki, where she could already pretty much win off one knockdown.  Made her mixups braindead easy.

 

hold spear I like, but it could certainly slow down the game sometimes.

If she got just her reload package + yrc she would be number one in the game flat out. They will need to throw some nerfs or yrc lockouts.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Destin said:

I hated dizzy's jump 2s and the double fish, so I'm super hyped for a reload version. She's definitely my favorite version.  Jump 2s made redundant so much of her air moves it jus became a go to in so many situation, did not promote thinking. That's not even going into how stupid iad 2s overhead was.  

 

The double tap fish was WAY too strong in neutral for characters that had trouble with it. I had never in reload felt "man, getting a fish out isn't good enough!" It almost always lead to at least one mixup which was all it should.  The double fish also was stupid good for oki, where she could already pretty much win off one knockdown.  Made her mixups braindead easy.

 

hold spear I like, but it could certainly slow down the game sometimes.

If she got just her reload package + yrc she would be number one in the game flat out. They will need to throw some nerfs or yrc lockouts.

 

So sad, you should hope for a good character, not a "ok" one. I don't really get the hate over stuff she might not even get back.

I can't wait to see her new animations and revamped moves!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My main hope right now is just that some of her moves get different animations to reflect a change in her as a character (and since it's practically a given that j.2S won't come back, that'd be a convenient way to change one of her air normals into something as useful for mix-up). I absolutely agreed with Satou when he brought up on Twitter that it'd be more interesting for her to willingly fight to protect her family rather than being pulled around by Necro in battles she hates being in.

Regarding gameplay, as I said earlier, she might play somewhat differently in Revelator, but Pachi's comment was too broad to really make any solid assumptions about what exactly they'll do with her if they indeed go in that direction. But as long as she keeps her solid space control, she could turn out fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Destin said:

What did pachi say exactly?

http://www.ggxrd.com/rev/ac/XrdElection.pdf
From @greatfernmans evernote, who was so kind and translated it some time ago: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s296/sh/26144efa-a120-4380-938c-6c1948f387c5/251d86b7853f98d5a84e9ac2a8330c2a

" DIZZY
First Appearance: GUILTY GEAR X
A character who has a variety of projectiles that are good are beginning pressure and who also has mobility. She has been a setplay character and she probably has good affinity with the roman cancel system, but rather than backing off, I want her playstyle to involve more aggression. Also, she's a mother now, and her move names are amazing."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How is "j2S being gone" a given? I've not seen any announcement on that matter

 

When Pachi said that he wants Dizzy to play more aggresively I guess that he's saying that because she'll lose her 25% tension specials (always forget the name of those lol) which were some huge zoning tools, instead of shifting that power into new tools or her current arrow and/or bubble he might want to give her a more aggresive game style; this is why I think that mantaining her j2S and double tap fish is probable, if you get rid of some useful zoning tools AND mixup/okizeme moves what else does she ends up with?

Then again, this is just my point on view, I'd gladly have them get rid of some zoning she has and tay away from her fish (Maybe rework what each button does) and j2S (Which IMO are one of her most iconic moves); We shall just wait and see what TEAMRED comes up with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MX_Engellier said:

How is "j2S being gone" a given? I've not seen any announcement on that matter

It's a move exclusive to X and the AC era, and Xrd is basically ignoring the latter.

3 hours ago, MX_Engellier said:

When Pachi said that he wants Dizzy to play more aggresively I guess that he's saying that because she'll lose her 25% tension specials (always forget the name of those lol) which were some huge zoning tools, instead of shifting that power into new tools or her current arrow and/or bubble he might want to give her a more aggresive game style; this is why I think that mantaining her j2S and double tap fish is probable, if you get rid of some useful zoning tools AND mixup/okizeme moves what else does she ends up with?

Then again, this is just my point on view, I'd gladly have them get rid of some zoning she has and tay away from her fish (Maybe rework what each button does) and j2S (Which IMO are one of her most iconic moves); We shall just wait and see what TEAMRED comes up with.

As I said, the comment itself is pretty broad when he says he wants her to be more aggressive (honestly, even though I was the one who corrected that part of fernman's translation, SRK's "more in-your-face" is probably a better way to convey what the Japanese says, so I'd rather go with that from here on), so it would indeed be better to wait until she actually gets added.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Destin said:

#R dizzy was great, and I did great with her.

i am hoping for an interesting character, that matters much more than a "good" one.

Lol, she was one of the few high tier next to bridget in reload....... even thought there were a few monster class character.

11 hours ago, Destin said:

I hated dizzy's jump 2s and the double fish, so I'm super hyped for a reload version. She's definitely my favorite version.  Jump 2s made redundant so much of her air moves it jus became a go to in so many situation, did not promote thinking. That's not even going into how stupid iad 2s overhead was.  

 

The double tap fish was WAY too strong in neutral for characters that had trouble with it. I had never in reload felt "man, getting a fish out isn't good enough!" It almost always lead to at least one mixup which was all it should.  The double fish also was stupid good for oki, where she could already pretty much win off one knockdown.  Made her mixups braindead easy.

 

 

this is where I can't reconciled the 2 statement, even with all her changes j2s and double fish input.. dizzy was no means a great character in Ac... average at best. I don't understand how you can say having j2s and double fish will make her awesome. And fish summoning itself was rewarding only on kd, which is basically emphasizing that every character on KD gains that advantage how is that any different from other characters KD into Oki, and I-no is still queen of KD into Oki but that doesn't make Ino godly by itself. The most important aspect is neutral or else ramlethal wouldn't be bottom.

However +R was a different best and only due to the nature of the fish and not the ability of double input.

7 hours ago, Kyosuke Kagami said:

Drop the bubble. Leave the rest.

There, perfect with the newer RC system

 

I don't understand this concept where people say dizzy with yrc is going to be insane... where there are already multiple characters using yrc with projectile that are already good. And yes this is an arms race. Even looking at Ky stun edge yrc, I don't see how dizzy will come close to that besides ice spike yrc is it sticks. fish yrc is probably no different than disc yrc.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dunno, I mean I'm not expecting +R Dizzy because that would be foolish, but I would rather they tailor her to Xrd system instead of cherry pick what parts of her old versions to incorporate.  I also don't think j.2S being her go-to air normal is a bad thing even if it does invalidate a lot of the other ones, but couldn't you say the same for normals in a lot of other situations?  Like there's usually a go-to ground normal for pokes, go-to air for air to air and for jump/dash ins, etc.  Actually them fucking with her normals is one of my bigger concerns, because as stated earlier great oki doesn't mean much if you struggle in neutral.  I guess we'll see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, zaeris said:

Lol, she was one of the few high tier next to bridget in reload....... even thought there were a few monster class character.

this is where I can't reconciled the 2 statement, even with all her changes j2s and double fish input.. dizzy was no means a great character in Ac... average at best. I don't understand how you can say having j2s and double fish will make her awesome. And fish summoning itself was rewarding only on kd, which is basically emphasizing that every character on KD gains that advantage how is that any different from other characters KD into Oki, and I-no is still queen of KD into Oki but that doesn't make Ino godly by itself. The most important aspect is neutral or else ramlethal wouldn't be bottom.

However +R was a different best and only due to the nature of the fish and not the ability of double input.

I don't understand this concept where people say dizzy with yrc is going to be insane... where there are already multiple characters using yrc with projectile that are already good. And yes this is an arms race. Even looking at Ky stun edge yrc, I don't see how dizzy will come close to that besides ice spike yrc is it sticks. fish yrc is probably no different than disc yrc.

 

 

She was in a great spot in reload, spent most of the game's life at about 9-10 of 23, a pretty good middle tier if you ask me. Though that's not what I was attempting to convey, more of one should prioritize interesting over fun, and I have faith in red to make her interesting.

She wasn't a monster in AC, but AC power levels were insanely high. AC almost anything would be a monster in here. She only needs single fish to get top 3 oki in the game, double fish was just lazy and therefore less interesting. And the it made it even more difficult in neutral for characters that had trouble with the fish in neutral.   She could easily be given double fish and j.2s and still be bottom tier depending on how they balance her, but I was just stating the moves take away from her fun high level long term.  

Geist: having a catch all normal isn't horrible, but is less fun than using a toolbox and finding the right took for the right spot. Having more layers than "attack or not" makes a character more fun for most in the long term.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, redsilversnake said:

It's a move exclusive to X and the AC era, and Xrd is basically ignoring the latter.

like Ky's special cancelable :f: :k:, Slayer's air :d: :k:,  Chipp's combos out of air hit on 1st Rekka, Zatou/Eddie alt summons w/ :d::db::b: :h:, Johnny wall bounce MFs leadin' to recoin combos and so on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Destin said:

Geist: having a catch all normal isn't horrible, but is less fun than using a toolbox and finding the right took for the right spot. Having more layers than "attack or not" makes a character more fun for most in the long term.

I do respect this POV, since it seems to parallel the way Guilty Gear is naturally a toolbox based game where you're only really limited by your meter (and execution I suppose).  I guess I just thought of the move purely in terms of "this move is good and I want it back."

 

1 hour ago, Destin said:

I will be sad to lose some of her normals if they do a whole Johnny redesign. I realllllly want to hold onto far s.

That's what I'm worried about, that redesigning her will be for the worse, but in theory I think it's better for her in the long run if they remake her from the ground up so she can be the best Xrd Dizzy she can be, as opposed to trying to "port" an old version of her and it failing, which is what it seems like happened to Jam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×