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[Xrd] News & Gameplay Discussion 2 - Console is Out!

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Mike, a pro Jack-O player switched to Johnny:

Who wants to be going through all of that setup with zero inevitability for all your hard work (Jack-O)? All it takes is a couple of hits (or a blocked counter attack) and BOOM, right back to square one. Raven already takes massive damage and he has a mechanic that wants him to sacrifice more? Especially when reaching level 3 isn't even threatening? The needle projectile duration is barely longer than level one. His grab is the same speed no matter what and the swipe and distortions just gain a little more damage. Jam has a hell of a time setting up two charges for any type of mix-up. There's zero need to do all that when there are already characters that do what you're sweating to do without the sacrifice. Sin's calorie meter might as well not be there because by the time he's done with a combo, he can quickly eat. How often have you seen a Sin without meter and not able to eat? How often have you seen Jack-O with level 3 houses? How often have you seen Jam with at least two charges? How often have you seen Raven with at least a level two meter? These setup characters aren't worth it.

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I can't really agree with people saying "Every character is strong". If that was true, we'd see every character place high in tournaments and it would vary, not be consistently the same 4-5 characters out of 20. I bet you'll NEVER see a Jam player win a GGXrd Rev tournament, that's for sure. Not saying the game has to be perfectly balanced because that is impossible to achieve but try to get it to where it is fairly respectable in range. When you start seeing 9-1 and 8-2 match ups, I start to question balance. GG is more balanced than a lot of other games. I will give it that but it's far from ideally balanced.

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58 minutes ago, The Badgerine said:

How bout we wait until after EVO to have this discussion?

There have been tournaments already for many months (since last year) on a high level in Japan. What more do we need to see friend? I don't want to see a bunch of Sin, Johnny, Sol and Millia players taking up the top 16 at Evo. That is not going to look good. How are we supposed promote this game after that? Why should anyone buy DLC characters if they're not worth the effort?

Slightly of topic:

I can't get it out of my head with Bedman. He has a 8-way air dash, all of his Task can be done anywhere, but his main move, Deja Vu can't be done in the air? So for example, he has some of his marks floating in the air, but can't utilize them for air combat because he's limited to a ground Deja Vu. SMH (but he seems so cool in the story mode lol)

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Well, what I mean is its a little premature to make assumptions about character usage and success at EVO.

Recall last year's EVO where not a single Elphelt was in sight in Top 8, despite her ridiculousness.

In my opinion, anything can happen dude.

Not everyone plays characters based on their tier placement. The character enthusiasts (read:FAB, Zidane) will always be there, and their strong showings with such weak characters might inspire a few folks to pick up their characters.

EDIT: I won't discourage you from worrying though, it guarantees you less pain, and it shows you care, and we all appreciate that.

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7 hours ago, solidscheme said:

Why go through all of the set up with characters like Jack-O (Whose leveling progress when destroyed starts back at square one) or Raven (whose level 3 pain meter doesn't feel really different from his level 1) when you can have everything with no sacrifice?

how u gonna post just that match and leave stuff like this aside though?

 

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Question is are ppl quiting there char BC someone else is more powerful or are they quitting them BC they like the other char more?? Also millia and chip have the worse defense in the game so of course if they get hit they almost gonna die lol

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It is interesting when there are many types of character, but in a tournament you mostly see one type only. I have to say, it is satisfying when you defeat someone with a "low" tier character.

Now, back here, Millia can die fast, however her offensive is undoubtely strong, which is why many people like her. Sin is a mixed case, because his defense is neutral, but he can't just spam his specials that consumes gauge, but attack that uses gauge has a big range and big damage, however he needs to eat to refill it. Jack-O is a real time Strategy, she needs to have the surprise element on her side to play, in my opinion. Johnny isn't that strong, compared to Millia, but has a better defense and the coin, which can boost some attacks, oh, and also good range and fast attacks...

My only concern of badly broken here is Raven... he has a Hyper-Armor stance that "absorbs" the damage and fills his gauge (We can fill it just holding the button too), but shouldn't he has a better multiplier rather than x1.11, which is the third worst in the game? I may be wrong, I never played with him, I want to play, but I can't understand that.

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The stance builds over time but one thing to note that the amount it builds is based on hits and not damage.

Sure if you are sassy you can YRC as a type of armor to potentially punish moves that are safe on block, though you do get pushed back slightly when you eat hits in that stance.

Raven has really good movement abilities, strong oki set-ups, and moves with pretty good range (though seemingly bad frame advantage) so I think being a little squishy is a fair trade off.

Should also note that at level 3 excitement his stab time super probably has some of the best minimum damage for a super regardless of scaling due the number of hits and raw base damage of the kick at the end.

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4 minutes ago, Angry Guy of DE said:

The stance builds over time but one thing to note that the amount it builds is based on hits and not damage.

Sure if you are sassy you can YRC as a type of armor to potentially punish moves that are safe on block, though you do get pushed back slightly when you eat hits in that stance.

Raven has really good movement abilities, strong oki set-ups, and moves with pretty good range (though seemingly bad frame advantage) so I think being a little squishy is a fair trade off.

Should also note that at level 3 excitement his stab time super probably has some of the best minimum damage for a super regardless of scaling due the number of hits and raw base damage of the kick at the end.

If you think about it, it is a little worse the stance build on hits, and not in damage, because against some powerful characters can be a pain (like Sin specials).

My point about his defense is not him being squishy, it is just the x1.11, I mean, he doesn't need to be x1.00, but shouldn't around x1.06 be better for his gameplay? I may be wrong, it is my opinion.

I remember many of his boosts through the excitement gauge, specially his super, the only problem is fill that gauge, but along time people will get used to do so, I mean, to fill it up is not as fast as Sin eating, so it can be a little harder to fill it over time.

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I'm pretty sure if it was based on damage it would either be absurd to balance in the sense that it would be either too costly to use or too easy to get the advantages of level 3 excitement.

On the flip side of his defense being 1.11, yes it is 3rd worst in the game being overshadowed by Millia at 1.22 and Chipp at 1.3 defense.  Yes it is not great but it is managed by his amazing guts.  His guts is higher than even Chipp's (based on the wiki) so once you hit that 50% life mark you will be that much harder to kill.

Its also hard/unfair to compare Raven's excitement gauge to Sin's Calorie gauge since Raven only gets better the more you can fill it up whereas Sin is effectively reliant on that to do pretty much anything.  Also consider that the current Sin is one that has had changes since his original debut on Xrd Sign on consoles so Raven will also get some changes/improvements at a later version.



 

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7 hours ago, HGhaleon said:

I can't really agree with people saying "Every character is strong". If that was true, we'd see every character place high in tournaments and it would vary, not be consistently the same 4-5 characters out of 20. I bet you'll NEVER see a Jam player win a GGXrd Rev tournament, that's for sure. Not saying the game has to be perfectly balanced because that is impossible to achieve but try to get it to where it is fairly respectable in range. When you start seeing 9-1 and 8-2 match ups, I start to question balance. GG is more balanced than a lot of other games. I will give it that but it's far from ideally balanced.

That's assuming every player have the same amount of skill, and the position in tournament is only determined by your character.

Then why is FAB always reaching top 8 at least ? His character is bottom tier. That shouldn't be possible.

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Probably not forever, it should be a PSA to anyone that might think of getting the to DL the free characters now so you don't have to spend either in-game $ or real money to get them.

I still laugh at people that had to pay for Elphelt in Sign.

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16 hours ago, Epic said:

What I meant by that is that they go from one extreme to the other, overnerfing characters instead of fixing them. Robo Ky from R to /, Eddie from R to /, Ram etc. They pretty much went from overpowered to unplayable.

I'll give you Elphelt because that is a good example how to do it right, but to me that's just an exception.

Eddie in / was lower mid tier.  That's far from unplayable.  I was playing dizzy in slash who was worse and she didn't feel unplayable either.  I don't think ram is unplayable either in this, I've seen plenty of Japanese do work with her.  Yeah they missed the mark a bit, but they didn't go too far from where they needed to be tbh, it's not bad balancing.

 

robo was horrible in slash though, I agree.

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1 hour ago, Angry Guy of DE said:

I still laugh at people that had to pay for Elphelt in Sign.

Forget about Sign, you can laugh to those EU plebeians that have to pay to play Kum instead.

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22 minutes ago, Clousephinat said:

Forget about Sign, you can laugh to those EU plebeians that have to pay to play Kum instead.

Don't, we already feel miserable without that.

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2 minutes ago, JustaMaskedFreak said:

Iam from Brazil and the DLC doesn't even show up for me... :vbang:

Did you make sure to look on the Add-ons section? For some reason, DLC does not appear alongside the game.

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