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[Xrd] News & Gameplay Discussion 2 - Console is Out!

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27 minutes ago, 9:02 PM said:

No, but I'm sure you'll get a few of the standard Zato/Millia responses. I think 1.03 is a really great patch overall, but Jam and to a lesser extent Ramlethal should have been given more substantial buffs in my opinion.

What were Ram's buffs again?

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2 hours ago, 9:02 PM said:

P,K,4K last hit whiff cancellable

As in special-cancellable, normal-cancellable or Roman Cancel? I don't seem to get anything out of it :/

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Finally got this game. I played Xrd SIGN so little that it's almost like starting all over. Years of casual pad play, with it's screwed up P and K mapping, have made reading this game's notation trickier than any other. Oh well, gotta get used to it...and Dizzy's altered normals which keep screwing with me. Why change her S to 4S? bleh.

now I just need my own internet connection...

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8 hours ago, GunBlazer said:

As in special-cancellable, normal-cancellable or Roman Cancel? I don't seem to get anything out of it :/

It just allows you to whiff cancel the 4k out of pk as far as I know, so it's pretty meaningless overall.

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5 hours ago, Devdan said:

Finally got this game. I played Xrd SIGN so little that it's almost like starting all over. Years of casual pad play, with it's screwed up P and K mapping, have made reading this game's notation trickier than any other. Oh well, gotta get used to it...and Dizzy's altered normals which keep screwing with me. Why change her S to 4S? bleh.

now I just need my own internet connection...

Haha, I feel your pain on 4S. Should have made it 6S. Gotta undo years of block back habit now. :/

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Was there anyone people feel should've been nerfed also that wasn't with this patch?

No, but I'm sure you'll get a few of the standard Zato/Millia responses. I think 1.03 is a really great patch overall, but Jam and to a lesser extent Ramlethal should have been given more substantial buffs in my opinion.

I personally welcome the shorter max charge times with open arms.

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toco toco tv, a small french web/TV series where Japanese creators present places in Japan which they like to visit or inspired them, will feature Daisuke Ishiwatari in the next episode of their game creator special.

If they follow their old upload plan the episode should be available on the 15th of August. English subtitles will be available.

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The first 2 sets between Daru and Ogawa were not recorded as far as I know, but you can catch the last one in part one. I can't find the grand finals anywhere (would love to see it), but they were exclusively on Japanese TV apparently.

Spoiler

 

 

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So how does everyone feel about Dizzy so far, both Japanese and Western players, just initial impressions. Since she hasn't been out for too long.

 

@youcanwonder https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPlzFwhsAGlyjCObLK-E8Yw

Mark Of the Gear has been coming out with ombo videos for the longest time, and if not, just search videos on youtube.

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She's weak IMO, most of AC+R Johnny mains were destroying both randoms and the good players in the very first week (See Karinchu for example), I use Johnny as an example because both of those characters are quite challenging to master, and even like that it was pretty obvious from the get go that Johnny would become huge in the future.

Meanwhile, THE Dizzy god, Kazuki, after 2-3 weeks of her release and a huge ammount of training with her, finds it difficult to win even against randoms (And he got completely destroyed by FAB, and yeah, while FAB is the best potemkin around, I think it's weird how Kazuki couldn't win a single fight against Dizzy's previous best MU)

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1 hour ago, BladeOfJustice7 said:

So how does everyone feel about Dizzy so far, both Japanese and Western players, just initial impressions. Since she hasn't been out for too long.

The JP players I follow have different ideas of how to play her, but they seem to agree that while she has some good changes (Kazuki, for instance, likes her new 6P, IIRC), she still needs to work for wins, though they're all still working on specific MUs. And while they haven't explicitly said so, some of what they've said seems indicate she's actually gotten even more technical.

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5 hours ago, MX_Engellier said:

She's weak IMO, most of AC+R Johnny mains were destroying both randoms and the good players in the very first week (See Karinchu for example), I use Johnny as an example because both of those characters are quite challenging to master, and even like that it was pretty obvious from the get go that Johnny would become huge in the future.

Meanwhile, THE Dizzy god, Kazuki, after 2-3 weeks of her release and a huge ammount of training with her, finds it difficult to win even against randoms (And he got completely destroyed by FAB, and yeah, while FAB is the best potemkin around, I think it's weird how Kazuki couldn't win a single fight against Dizzy's previous best MU)

That's not really enough to go on. While Johnny did get nerfed in the update, he still seems strong, so his players will retain an advantage over those picking up a character that's fresh to arcades (as there apparently are players who don't play on console).

As for Kazuki, putting aside that he's not "the" Dizzy god, he's made it clear over Twitter that he's still working out a lot on how to play her, even now. So while Potemkin likely could still be a good MU for her, that doesn't mean FAB won't still have an advantage in terms of both the time he's put in and the skill he's gained through experience.

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She seems more zoning based than her ACR iteration, and can't just go in whenever she wants, and needs to use her summons to cover her. As @redsilversnake put it, she seems more technical now, instead of having the ability to essentially bulldoze over characters before.

 

I asked for your inputs after watching Kazuki and Makki play, that's why.

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3 hours ago, BladeOfJustice7 said:

She seems more zoning based than her ACR iteration, and can't just go in whenever she wants, and needs to use her summons to cover her. As @redsilversnake put it, she seems more technical now, instead of having the ability to essentially bulldoze over characters before.

 

I asked for your inputs after watching Kazuki and Makki play, that's why.

That's what I thought since day 1: Why have Dizzy be like Margareth and Nine that can do everything, when Xrd is trying to be more balanced and there's Ram as a more agressive zoner?

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The current dizzy's are doing a bunch of things wrong at the moment, everyone is sorta a patchwork of ideas and they haven't congealed them.  Inefficient combos, a bunch of questionable okizeme choices, even tech they made is not being implemented yet, even though it is the better option.  Many of her strong corner options involve a non bufferable 1f input (and two bufferable 1f inputs), so I don't expect you to see non training mode monsters pulling those out yet.

 

Dizzy is more technical than ever, and really has to work harder for her wins than before.  This is a good thing.  She is meter dependent for the first time... ever?  This is also a good thing!  The changes team RED did were worth the wait.

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The thing here is, that her strongest Oki tools are way too f***ing unreliable, take her K Fish as an example, you need to have "the feel" of how fast every character wakes up in both face down/up position in order to delay precisely her Fish so that it becomes a meaty, you don't need that kind of knowledge for Millia where you can just knockdown > HS Tandem Top > Mixup. And even if you somehow screw up the Tandem Top you can just 2K/2S to avoid a backdash/jump and go for a mixup anyways.

That's why you see most of the Dizzy players (Myself included) just going for 2D > H Fish since it's more of a safer choice, and, while H Fish may be an easiest Oki compared to the P/K version (Except on certain characters like... Ky/Johnny I think where even H drake whiffs), it lacks of mixup options, and yeah, you can just summon P/K Fish > Meaty 2K > Blockstring, but come on, any of you guys that have played her enough time to get a general idea of how she works will agree with me when I say that doing that isn't worth because of the mixup options compared to a proper K Fish meaty/H Fish.

And, I'm just throwing this one out, but I actually don't think she's more technical compared to before, she just needs REALLY bad some QOL changes, mainly, make it so that her P/K Fish are less of a pain in the a** to use as an Oki tool, if they do this single little change, even if they don't change her awful buttons (fS trading against certain 5P? The f***?) it'd be okay, since you'd still have to work you a** off to score a KD, but now you could ACTUALLY focus on pulling off the crazy difficult setups instead of going "Oh crap, let's see if the Fish doesn't whiff".
 

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Not entirely Xrd related but could anyone explain to me why Dry-Ace/julius belmont posted this video, which seemingly is about Dogura?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53dLRzZxZ0Q

 

Just curious

 

@Destin

Why are these changes a good thing? How is she meter dependent? And how do you like her compared to her ACR iteration, I know you've played her for a very long time.

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I would prefer if Dizzy wasn't yet another projectile okizeme character. Got enough of those already. So everything I'm hearing sounds good.

A keepaway style would fit her character better story-wise.

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One comment that a friend who is trying Dizzy is a little annoyed with is that her 4S can be low profiled by some really random things like...

Leo's cross-up slash

or

Sol's running animation (is what he said)

probably also doesn't help her when only her c.S is + on block where everything else is minus and a frame or two slower on start-up than other characters.

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On August 6, 2016 at 10:17 PM, MX_Engellier said:

The thing here is, that her strongest Oki tools are way too f***ing unreliable, take her K Fish as an example, you need to have "the feel" of how fast every character wakes up in both face down/up position in order to delay precisely her Fish so that it becomes a meaty, you don't need that kind of knowledge for Millia where you can just knockdown > HS Tandem Top > Mixup. And even if you somehow screw up the Tandem Top you can just 2K/2S to avoid a backdash/jump and go for a mixup anyways.

That's why you see most of the Dizzy players (Myself included) just going for 2D > H Fish since it's more of a safer choice, and, while H Fish may be an easiest Oki compared to the P/K version (Except on certain characters like... Ky/Johnny I think where even H drake whiffs), it lacks of mixup options, and yeah, you can just summon P/K Fish > Meaty 2K > Blockstring, but come on, any of you guys that have played her enough time to get a general idea of how she works will agree with me when I say that doing that isn't worth because of the mixup options compared to a proper K Fish meaty/H Fish.

And, I'm just throwing this one out, but I actually don't think she's more technical compared to before, she just needs REALLY bad some QOL changes, mainly, make it so that her P/K Fish are less of a pain in the a** to use as an Oki tool, if they do this single little change, even if they don't change her awful buttons (fS trading against certain 5P? The f***?) it'd be okay, since you'd still have to work you a** off to score a KD, but now you could ACTUALLY focus on pulling off the crazy difficult setups instead of going "Oh crap, let's see if the Fish doesn't whiff".
 

That sounds more like a personal execution problem.  Generally speaking (offline of course), I run my okizeme with little fear of things whiffing or not being meaty, and H fish has great options out of it you crazy.

Either way, the fish bite is active for like 3f, that's plenty of buffer to land it meaty if that's the oki you want to use.  

Her oki right now is way more technical than it was in #R or Slash (which is what we are comparing this too).  You have many things to consider based on positioning, opponent, meter, and face-up face-down.  She has a ton of character specific combos and setups, and many characters have more specific ways around that need to be accounted for.  My okizeme routes though have ballooned up, thanks to yrc, and the threat of yrc I have directions to reset or reed tallish a mixup on almost every piece of my pressure.  She may simplify down as optimal things are discovered, but as of now she is totally more technical.

@blade: She used to require 25% meter for combos... And that was pretty much it lol.  Now she takes 50% for decent combos, and 25% for safe summons, which is pretty important to the flow of her games.  If you didn't use projectile yrc, she would be worse than Slash dizzy at the current state.

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