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[Xrd] News & Gameplay Discussion 2 - Console is Out!

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Game is actually very easy to learn thanks to actual good tutorials and challenges. They teach you basically everything.

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I tell everyone, plus that everything else is easily found on dustloop, but you can lead a horse to water and all that.

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Well speaking as someone who just started playing with the release of Xrd I can say there isn't much you can do to convince someone to start playing this game. This is not an easy game to learn, so unless a person is commited to investing the time in I don't think there's much you can do. Especially coming from something like SF4, I can't imagine how fast this game seems to someone whose only ever played that game.

GG in general can be radical for new players who eapecially comes from street fighter as their main games or newbies who are learning fighting games in general.

Sometimes I think coaching and explaining at tournament might be a good idea. While motivated players would find all of those online with forums and youtubes. Maybe a hands on approaching with corners design to educate players about fundamental and promote matches analysis because often the case is new players dont know what they are doing wrong or know what the counter measures are.

Then there is of course skill level mismatch in casual set ups. If people want to play without feeling they are getting bodied too often perhaps make an easy, intermediate and expert casual set up.

Of course with any radical thinking or prep it doesnt still adress the motivational drive because not everyone is there conpetetively. Hence why I suggested encouraging more social activities, having pizza/maccas and talking about fighting games, lol can work.

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When I said I liked Overture, he was shocked, like 0:

When I asked about BDSM, he was shocked, like D:

"Considering what an aggressive nature Sol has and that you based him on yourself in spirit, would you consider yourself a dom more than a sub?"

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Game is actually very easy to learn thanks to actual good tutorials and challenges. They teach you basically everything.

 

The fact that all this stuff is needed further proves my point, learnig this game requires a bigger time investment than your average fighter and that lengthy(but very informative tutorial) is just proof right there. I'm not saying this as a knock to the game, I love the complexity behind the game, it never feels like things are difficult for the sake of being difficult(except those goddamn 6k loops, but w/e), but with all that said the fact is this is neither a straight forward game to learn or play.

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The fact that all this stuff is needed further proves my point, learnig this game requires a bigger time investment than your average fighter and that lengthy(but very informative tutorial) is just proof right there. I'm not saying this as a knock to the game, I love the complexity behind the game, it never feels like things are difficult for the sake of being difficult(except those goddamn 6k loops, but w/e), but with all that said the fact is this is neither a straight forward game to learn or play.

The amount of shit you need to know about SF4 to function on a basic level that isn't found anywhere inside the game is obscene,

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*sigh* aight, no point in dwelling on this argument anymore seeing as how it's neither necessary nor really going anywhere. I gave my assumption for why some people find it hard to attract more players and I guess you all disagree, no real reason dwelling on it any longer.

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"Considering what an aggressive nature Sol has and that you based him on yourself in spirit, would you consider yourself a dom more than a sub?"

Hard to be a convincing dom with all those belt straps shackled onto you.

 

I'm just saying.

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7. BBxGG when? + 50. Other Mori collaborations?

"When Mori finishes BlazBlue and I finish Guilty Gear, then we'll make a crossover"

...BB's nearing completion, but there's a ways to go for Guilty. It'll be a while.

 

I am pretty sure that this basically means never (or highly unlikely). GG wont 'end' the current cycle for another decade and even if BB gets a final expansion, its pretty likely that it will be remade like Xrd was. Meaning that neither of them will ever 'be finished', especially not at the same time. 

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The fact that all this stuff is needed further proves my point, learnig this game requires a bigger time investment than your average fighter and that lengthy(but very informative tutorial) is just proof right there. I'm not saying this as a knock to the game, I love the complexity behind the game, it never feels like things are difficult for the sake of being difficult(except those goddamn 6k loops, but w/e), but with all that said the fact is this is neither a straight forward game to learn or play.

 

Just because there's more content to learn doesn't make it harder if all the tools required to learn the content is available. Xrd does this quite well; SF 4 does not.

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learnig this game requires a bigger time investment than your average fighter

are you really saying that "your average fighter" requires a significantly smaller amount of time to learn how to play  :psyduck:

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GG in general can be radical for new players who eapecially comes from street fighter as their main games or newbies who are learning fighting games in general.

Sometimes I think coaching and explaining at tournament might be a good idea. While motivated players would find all of those online with forums and youtubes. Maybe a hands on approaching with corners design to educate players about fundamental and promote matches analysis because often the case is new players dont know what they are doing wrong or know what the counter measures are.

 

I just hand people a controller and say "what do you WANT to do in this game?"

 

The amount of shit you need to know about SF4 to function on a basic level that isn't found anywhere inside the game is obscene,

 

Because reading the game's instruction manual is too hardcore.

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Granted Manuals don't talk about frame data or all the finely tuned stuff of that nature, but they do talk about "how to play the game" for first timers.
 
If they want to know more, isn't that what friendly communities are for?

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The main reason Daisuke doesn't like Soul Calibur has more to do with the uber fanservice DLC content it gets (similar to problems SFxT and Tekken were plagued with, DOA5 is even worse too), rather than the gameplay itself... since Blitz Shield is pretty much an ersatz form of SC's parry system if you think about it.

 

Huh? What fanservice DLC or extra content in general has the main tekken franchise ever got besides old tekken ost for stage music(which was an amazing idea) ?

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Because reading the game's instruction manual is too hardcore.

 

crouch teching, FADC, what a link is, what a cancel is, that stupid "can't cancel into a special unless you linked into your last normal" rule, and practical or easy combos are found nowhere inside the game. FADC is in the manual, but manual isn't available on steam at least. To learn all of this stuff people had to consult online sources or be told. Hell, I remember renting SF4 back in '09 and thinking 3P for ultra meant press P 3 times. The game doesn't try to teach you anything. 

 

Huge amounts of people new to fighting games still stuck with it and learned it, but with a ton of the western scene, if you try to turn them on to anything else(except fucking MK for some reason) you'll get something along the lines of "i wanna get into that!" but can't get them to put in any effort. Couldn't even keep KoF alive.

 

 

edit:It's me, I'm the '13er cynical about the state of the fgc

Edited by Pomparomp

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GG is hard as fuck for new people to learn, I don't know what everyone is going on about.  The complexity is necessary for many of the interactions and design points, but that doesn't make it easy. 

 

SF4 is the easiest fighting game to get to the point where you are really playing fighting games.  By far.  The problem is it caps out in interest way earlier by the same tools that are used to make it accessible.

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Playing FGs aren't difficult and Xrd is no exception. They're ironically among the most intuitive genres still around despite their reputation. It's holding one's self to the arbitrary standard of competitive/competent play that's the challenge - as well as finding someone at your relative skill level. 

 

The more niche the game, the more difficult the latter statement, and Guilty is a bitch in that regard. 

 

 

-Kimosabae 

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GG is hard as fuck for new people to learn, I don't know what everyone is going on about.  The complexity is necessary for many of the interactions and design points, but that doesn't make it easy. 

 

SF4 is the easiest fighting game to get to the point where you are really playing fighting games.  By far.  The problem is it caps out in interest way earlier by the same tools that are used to make it accessible.

I'm honestly willing to disagree with the GG point. When I first played GG, it was reload (judgement to be more specific) and I was still playing FGs at a relatively casual level at that point, and even back then, I could still under stand the basic mechanics. P chains into K chains into S etc. You can cancel them into specials on hit or block. Dust leads to an air combo. Burst either gets you out of a combo if you're in one, or gives you full meter if you do it raw. RC lets you cancel anything for half your meter. Etc etc. Maybe it's because I was a fast learner, but I never found the mechanics of GG hard to understand back then until I got to FRCs and slashback. Even with all the movement options, I just saw as "Oh, it's like playing megaman X or something". I always figured people just get overwhelmed at the sheer amount of options you have in GG, despite the fact that you can totally take baby steps to each one. 

 

But maybe I'm just a fast learner or something. 

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I would say gg is def more complex then most fgs. But way more difficult to learn during xx series. But it's changed some since then and has alot of options and easier to pick up. The training mode is great..but like all fighting games u gotta put time in.

Another big problem is when newbies try to pick a comolex/advanced char to learn from the start...now don't get me wrong, some can learn them but don't go jumping into the game that way wo understanding the mechanics..besides hitting a button to attack lol. The end of the day tho...its just learning and taken the time to learn. Playing w others will def help out...but if ur community is an asshole like mine then good luck lol. But w us...we do it to weed out the weak..if u not gonna learn or try quit wasting our time lmao...omaha scene is great lmao

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Regarding Kaizen's reply over my last post over Blade's Q's: Sorry, wasn't paying much more attention. >_>

 

But yeah, some things down now to cross off.

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I'm honestly willing to disagree with the GG point. When I first played GG, it was reload (judgement to be more specific) and I was still playing FGs at a relatively casual level at that point, and even back then, I could still under stand the basic mechanics. P chains into K chains into S etc. You can cancel them into specials on hit or block. Dust leads to an air combo. Burst either gets you out of a combo if you're in one, or gives you full meter if you do it raw. RC lets you cancel anything for half your meter. Etc etc. Maybe it's because I was a fast learner, but I never found the mechanics of GG hard to understand back then until I got to FRCs and slashback. Even with all the movement options, I just saw as "Oh, it's like playing megaman X or something". I always figured people just get overwhelmed at the sheer amount of options you have in GG, despite the fact that you can totally take baby steps to each one. 

 

But maybe I'm just a fast learner or something. 

I mean, that's cool and maybe it clicked with you.  But I have taught a TON of people a lot of different games.  Getting people comfortable in SF4 is like 8 things, basic antiairs, a basic poke or two, VERY basic tick throws, maybe a 2-1 off a hitconfirm (advanced).  At that point, you actually start to see people fall into real fighting game mechanics, once the anti-air's are in place they start spacing, being careful with their stupider moves ect. 

 

In guilty gear it takes forever before they stop basically facerolling at each other with their gradually more advanced combos.  This isn't because of YRC or slashback or whatever, those are much higher level issues.  This is because the basic mechanics to actually prevent people from running all over you are way more difficult than "hit down and fierce".  So beginners just keep getting run all over.

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I always thought of GG as simple to pick up and difficult to get good at but that's probably not true for people who start with SF4 or something, just that when I was real young I played a lot of MVC and Darkstalkers so I was already accustomed to fast stuff by the time I got my hands on GG for the first time.  Not that that should discourage anyone because despite that there are tons of 09ers who can still scrub the floor with me QQ.

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Game is actually very easy to learn thanks to actual good tutorials and challenges. They teach you basically everything.

They teach you everything in theory. Then you start a vs match and it's all down the gutter.

 

I mean seriously, I know people who've been playing for months, are very capable as far as combos and offense goes, but still press buttons on wakeup even if my Deja Vu covers the whole of their character like a big block of hitbox that it is. You can learn the system and the mechanics, you can even know your character inside out, but the tutorial would have to be on a completely different level and scope to actually teach how to play versus.

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