[Xrd] News & Gameplay Discussion 2 - Console is Out!

[Nobus3r1]

"This year top 8 was 7 Japanese so maybe the impression is 'Japanese GG players are too strong'. However, if Xrd is chosen as the main game again at EVO I don't think we'll see the same results next year. 

My impression of foreign players was 'strong defense, focuses on setplay'.

I was able to win against them this year because 'I have many matchup experience, and was able to make the right guesses when it mattered'. If foreign players continue to play and hone their GG play, I believe this gap can be closed."

 

 

Thanks Nage.  We're coming for you next year.

If there's a similar gap between the arcade and console releases of Revelator like there was for Sign then no, we're not coming for anyone.

[TheRealBobMan]

The difference between Revelator and Xrd is probably going to be smaller than the difference between Xrd and AC/+R, so a lot more of our current practice will transfer over.

 

 

But you're right, it's pretty bogus that US PS3 didn't get +R until after Xrd was released in JPN, and then they had it for about a year before we got it.  If they get Arcade Revelator by the end of this summer, I don't know if they'll push to have the console version out by the beginning of next year.  Maybe that would work in JPN, but it would only be one year after we first got Xrd so this market might not respond to it, meaning they'd hold it back a few months.

[TAI-X]

Maybe that would work in JPN, but it would only be one year after we first got Xrd so this market might not respond to it, meaning they'd hold it back a few months.

GG is a much bigger deal in the West than BB, having a wider reach of appeal outside the usual "anime fighter" ghetto. Aksys made a decision to hold back BBCP vanilla, but they'll do everything in their power to avoid delaying the localization of a new GG fighter if Japan has it ready for consoles.

 

(This doesn't apply to releases self-published by ArcSys USA, who are a bunch of slacker assholes.)

[youcanwonder]

GG is a much bigger deal in the West than BB, having a wider reach of appeal outside the usual "anime fighter" ghetto. Aksys made a decision to hold back BBCP vanilla, but they'll do everything in their power to avoid delaying the localization of a new GG fighter if Japan has it ready for consoles.

(This doesn't apply to releases self-published by ArcSys USA, who are a bunch of slacker assholes.)

They did have the game out a month after jpn release of the console. Dont knock em that much lol

[Nobus3r1]

The difference between Revelator and Xrd is probably going to be smaller than the difference between Xrd and AC/+R, so a lot more of our current practice will transfer over.

 

 

But you're right, it's pretty bogus that US PS3 didn't get +R until after Xrd was released in JPN, and then they had it for about a year before we got it.  If they get Arcade Revelator by the end of this summer, I don't know if they'll push to have the console version out by the beginning of next year.  Maybe that would work in JPN, but it would only be one year after we first got Xrd so this market might not respond to it, meaning they'd hold it back a few months.

One would hope it would be smaller but I wouldn't count on it.  Hell, even if the delay between arcade and console release where shorter it would have to be a basically unheard of turnaround time for Revelator to get released outside of Japan this year.  Like let's say Revelator gets an arcade release in September.  At this point a delay between arcade and console similar to what Sign saw (arcade: February 2014; console: December 2014; i.e. 10 months) would be really problematic as that would mean a console release between June and August 2015 (i.e. the fuck over getting the game at Evo release schedule).  Even slightly less than that (i.e. an April or May console release) would, IMO, be problematic from a competative point of view even if such a release at least wouldn't fuck the game out of being considered for tournaments.

 

GG is a much bigger deal in the West than BB, having a wider reach of appeal outside the usual "anime fighter" ghetto. Aksys made a decision to hold back BBCP vanilla, but they'll do everything in their power to avoid delaying the localization of a new GG fighter if Japan has it ready for consoles.

 

(This doesn't apply to releases self-published by ArcSys USA, who are a bunch of slacker assholes.)

The issue isn't between the console releases of the game as in Xrds case there was less than two weeks between the Japanese and North American releases but rather the difference between the arcade and console versions for which there was a ten month gap.  That is an enormous and nearly insurmountable competitive advantage.  America has many advantages over other parts of the world.  Creating conditions that are conducive towards e-sports success is not one of those advantages.  People are too far apart and the countries internet infrastructure is a joke (I realize that the USA has it good compared to many places but compared to Japan not so much).  For example the people being too far apart is, IMO, largely the reason that this year saw more international players placing at Evo in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 (2x Japan, 2x Mexico, 1x Chile) than placed in every preceding top 8 for UMvC3, MvC3 and MvC2 combined (13 total top 8s with 1x Peru and 1x Mexico) as for a game on the downswing, community becomes more important especially since that game is essentially unplayable online.

[TheRealBobMan]

One would hope it would be smaller but I wouldn't count on it.

 

Was I unclear when saying that our current game skill would carry over into Revelator?  They said that they're not making any huge systemic changes with this one.  Having to learn a new game in 6 months compared to people that had it for 1.5 years sucked, but the differences will be much smaller between Xrd and Revelator.  It's not as big of a handicap for us.

 

Compared to the huge shift in gameplay moving from AC and +R to Xrd, the Xrd to Revelator jump wont be that difficult to learn if they don't overhaul anything.  It'll probably just be 5 new matchups, the changes to BS and 5D, and the option to spend your Burst on Overdrives.

[Poultrygeist]

GG is a much bigger deal in the West than BB, having a wider reach of appeal outside the usual "anime fighter" ghetto. Aksys made a decision to hold back BBCP vanilla, but they'll do everything in their power to avoid delaying the localization of a new GG fighter if Japan has it ready for consoles.

 

(This doesn't apply to releases self-published by ArcSys USA, who are a bunch of slacker assholes.)

 

Unfortunately not for reasons I would have liked, there's far more people interested in circle jerking about metal music or Bridget than having fun with the game itself : (

[9:02 PM]

I think if they were to answer questions about the arcade -> console release gap honestly, they would probably just say the same thing Harada is saying about Tekken 7, which is that there's still a lot of money to be made from an arcade release in Japan. When you see players at Mikado with 6,000 games played in 10 months, they didn't get to play those for free because they're top players, and win streaks are capped by the hardware.

They can probably also get away with saying that changes based on arcade players experiences will make the console version better, and that they had to create a new online infrastructure and complete story mode and all that for console.

 

If they don't have enough confidence to put their product out as a globally competitive console game with simultaneous release ala Capcom (which in their defense does incur quite a bit of risk), I think everyone outside of Japan would prefer they find some alternate method of doing things. Personally I'm surprised Japanese players haven't been vocal about it; their opinions would probably hold exponentially more weight, and I would think they would want a larger international scene/prize money, along with getting rid of the colloquial asterisk that follows pretty much all of their tournament victories reminding people they had the game three times as long as we did.

 

Provided it's really just money they're worried about, some kind of paid subscription model where competitive players can get a bare bones game prior to a console release would be more than okay with me. I would pay $10 a month for access to PS4 Revelator with netplay and training mode for the 8 months it's in arcades before an actual console release. I'm sure it's less than the average arcade player spends a month, but it's better than zero dollars and negative press for not having simul release, which is what they're getting now.

[youcanwonder]

Was I unclear when saying that our current game skill would carry over into Revelator? They said that they're not making any huge systemic changes with this one. Having to learn a new game in 6 months compared to people that had it for 1.5 years sucked, but the differences will be much smaller between Xrd and Revelator. It's not as big of a handicap for us.

Compared to the huge shift in gameplay moving from AC and +R to Xrd, the Xrd to Revelator jump wont be that difficult to learn if they don't overhaul anything. It'll probably just be 5 new matchups, the changes to BS and 5D, and the option to spend your Burst on Overdrives.

5 new matchups?? Did I miss something?

[Nobus3r1]

Was I unclear when saying that our current game skill would carry over into Revelator?  They said that they're not making any huge systemic changes with this one.  Having to learn a new game in 6 months compared to people that had it for 1.5 years sucked, but the differences will be much smaller between Xrd and Revelator.  It's not as big of a handicap for us.

 

Compared to the huge shift in gameplay moving from AC and +R to Xrd, the Xrd to Revelator jump wont be that difficult to learn if they don't overhaul anything.  It'll probably just be 5 new matchups, the changes to BS and 5D, and the option to spend your Burst on Overdrives.

There are still many issues with this.  Namely that the Japanese players aren't static.  They're continuing to improve as well and given that they're starting from a position of advantage any handicap to those in the disadvantaged position is going to have a significant impact on the head to head results.  It would be like going into a fight with prime Mike Tyson and letting him get five free hits on you.  Also, I happen to agree with Nage about matchup experience being the biggest difference between Japanese and American players and that is something that a release differential most impacts.  Lastly, there's a good chance that the rest of the world is going to have substantially less than 6 months to learn the new version.  It wouldn't surprise me if Guilty Gear Xrd -Revelator- is at Evo next year if there where fewer non-Japanese players in top 16 than there where this year.

 

I think if they were to answer questions about the arcade -> console release gap honestly, they would probably just say the same thing Harada is saying about Tekken 7, which is that there's still a lot of money to be made from an arcade release in Japan. When you see players at Mikado with 6,000 games played in 10 months, they didn't get to play those for free because they're top players, and win streaks are capped by the hardware.

They can probably also get away with saying that changes based on arcade players experiences will make the console version better, and that they had to create a new online infrastructure and complete story mode and all that for console.

 

If they don't have enough confidence to put their product out as a globally competitive console game with simultaneous release ala Capcom, I think everyone outside of Japan would prefer they find some alternate method of doing things. Personally I'm surprised Japanese players haven't been vocal about it; their opinions would probably hold exponentially more weight, and I would think they would want a larger international scene/prize money, along with getting rid of the colloquial asterisk that follows pretty much all of their tournament victories reminding people they had the game three times as long as we did.

 

Provided it's really just money they're worried about, some kind of paid subscription model where competitive players can get a bare bones game prior to a console release would be more than okay with me. I would pay $10 a month for access to PS4 Revelator with netplay and training mode for the 8 months it's in arcades before an actual console release. I'm sure it's less than the average arcade player spends a month, but it's better than zero dollars and negative press for not having simul release, which is what they're getting now.

I think your ideas about distribution are interesting even if the company that implemented them would get crucified for trying to nickel and dime its customers (even if that's what arcades also essentially are doing).  I also wouldn't imagine that Japanese players care about the non-Japanese community viewing their results as having asterisks attached to them as they [the Japanese players] likely simply view said non-Japanese community as one big piggy bank.  I play Guilty Gear because I have fun playing it.  If I was good enough at fighting games to actually win money playing fighting games I wouldn't play Guilty Gear (or really any non-Capcom, non-NRS game) simply because it wouldn't be worth the effort trying to overcome the publisher/developer enabled hurdles.

[Destin]

Guess what, it's NEVER worth it for fighting games from an economic standpoint. Probably even non fighting games as well

[TheRealBobMan]

5 new matchups?? Did I miss something?

 

Well, 5 per character.  I'm assuming 5 'new' characters.  Xrd had 2 new characters at arcade launch, and 3 more at console launch.  I think it's reasonable to assume they'll shoot for 5 characters with Revelator, even if at Johnny is returning (and more characters could return, but they do have to be at least partially redesigned for Xrd mechanics).

[zissou]

The arcsys international release schedule affects the fun of the game (for me at least). Releases being significantly delayed for you region = discovery phase of the game happens elsewhere. It's more fun to be in on the ground floor.

[Blade]

Just a quick summary of the Interview on Stream:

 

---Daisuke is not an immortal vampire (according to some weird fangirl comments).

---Daisuke apparently helped a guy meet his girlfriend through Guilty Gear (!?)

---No major changes at present.

---No major plans at present (though he's heard a lot of fans clamoring for GG2 Overture-style games, he might consider).

---He likes Iron Maiden (and British Rock)

---He's not too different from Mori (they don't have a design philosophy they follow per se), but they both seek to make something new out of the games they make.

---He leaves "the rest" to our imagination.

[GunBlazer]

 

---Daisuke apparently helped a guy meet his girlfriend through Guilty Gear (!?)

 

Hey, just like that couple who met and married through Tekken.

[greatfernman]

Also, I happen to agree with Nage about matchup experience being the biggest difference between Japanese and American players and that is something that a release differential most impacts.

Even if America got the game a year before Japan, they will have less matchup experience

it's just the size and activity of the community

[heavymetalmixer]

What are these streams about?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plg8tsOOW74

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3WqbZw4X50

[Poultrygeist]

What are these streams about?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plg8tsOOW74

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3WqbZw4X50

Online qualifiers, Toshin-Gekitotsu.

[youcanwonder]

Well, 5 per character. I'm assuming 5 'new' characters. Xrd had 2 new characters at arcade launch, and 3 more at console launch. I think it's reasonable to assume they'll shoot for 5 characters with Revelator, even if at Johnny is returning (and more characters could return, but they do have to be at least partially redesigned for Xrd mechanics).

Ah ok. I was like did I miss some announcements or something lol. I will have to agree. Thinking 1 more for arcade and 2 for console. Wish they would just drop console and arcade at sametime...that will never happen tho lol

[kosmos badgirl]

Interview with ASW president here:

 

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201507/27083681.html

[Kimboslash]

And the news?

[Pomparomp]

And the news?

He appears to talk about the gaps between arcade and home/international releases on page 2, but I can't really decipher much more.

[Chachaman]

Even if America got the game a year before Japan, they will have less matchup experience

it's just the size and activity of the community

Well evo 2014 ultra sf4 had 3 westerns in the too 8 and japan only had a 2 month advantage, vanilla persona had 4 USA in the top 8 and japan only had a 4 month advantage. The time advantage makes a really big difference early on.

[Destin]

It does and I certainly won't disqualify this, but America takes more to Street fighter than GG by a margin compared to Japan.  Now I will say in my experience on average, GG players are FAR AND AWAY more dedicated to their game than SF players but.... it's very difficult to overcome the dearth of players.  We end up knowing certain few matchups better than overall characters, and when it comes to clean play we are just left behind because we don't have enough people punishing our suboptimal choices with the correct options.  Zidane did great (whoooooo go that guy!) partially because he had his own style of Leo that the japanese were actually taking notes to try and adapt to.  A lot of resets with Zweit (sp?) and such that may not be the cleanest form of Leo, but was EXACTLY what he needed to crack the Japanese who weren't used to that sort of play.

[Poultrygeist]

Zidane was great at Evo, he made FAB of all people look free.