GcYoshi13 Report post Posted August 7, 2015 I see Gazou but where's Nage?Let's hope team USA doesn't get wiped by a SolYou block Fafnir by holding forward right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king of heart Report post Posted August 7, 2015 I see Gazou but where's Nage?Let's hope team USA doesn't get wiped by a SolNage/Nakamura/RoiAlso yeah team USA doesn't have a character that would hold up to Sol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rhannmah Report post Posted August 7, 2015 You block Fafnir by holding forward right?I thought it was by doubletapping hold forward Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clamper Report post Posted August 7, 2015 Guys, i've been wondering something: why there's almost zero counterpicking in the Guilty Gear scene? I'm an old SF/Marvel player and started playing Guilty in Xrd, since then i think i've never seen someone counterpick in this game. You'd think Fab would prepare a Chipp against Ogawa or something instead of suffering in this horrible Pot-Zato matchup but it never happens... i'm interested if anyone can say some reasons for this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shtkn Report post Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) I thought it was by doubletapping hold forward since GcYoshi plays bedman, you're more right than you know Guys, i've been wondering something: why there's almost zero counterpicking in the Guilty Gear scene? I'm an old SF/Marvel player and started playing Guilty in Xrd, since then i think i've never seen someone counterpick in this game. You'd think Fab would prepare a Chipp against Ogawa or something instead of suffering in this horrible Pot-Zato matchup but it never happens... i'm interested if anyone can say some reasons for this.I don't know about players in general, but japanese tournaments are character locked so i'd imagine picking up another character for tournament play is a major investment that most decide not to make.For FAB in particular, that's just the way he is. He sticks with potemkin no matter what. I remember him saying so when my friends and i talked to him in japan. I even recall him saying taht he'll stick with pot even if pot gets WORSE in the next game. Edited August 7, 2015 by shtkn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GcYoshi13 Report post Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) Guys, i've been wondering something: why there's almost zero counterpicking in the Guilty Gear scene? I'm an old SF/Marvel player and started playing Guilty in Xrd, since then i think i've never seen someone counterpick in this game. You'd think Fab would prepare a Chipp against Ogawa or something instead of suffering in this horrible Pot-Zato matchup but it never happens... i'm interested if anyone can say some reasons for this.From my experience (this also applies to Blazblue), characters are generally too complex and unconventional where players couldn't have more than 3 viable pocket characters (most generally only main one character at a time).Characters in GG (this heavily applies to previous iterations before Xrd) are vastly complex with a lot of match-up niches that a player must learn. Polishing two characters is not easy unless you have the time and are truly dedicated.GG's mechanics also gives you a lot more options where you don't need to resort to counterpicking. When you IB, your options expand. Same goes with FD. GG offers a lot of varied defensive and offensive options so even if match-ups are not favorable, you still have options. So instead of learning a new character altogether, it's generally more viable to brush up on some things to figure out for a problematic match-up.In the case of FAB, we just have a very good player who makes amazing reads and plays. It helps that his defense is good to allow him a chance when he finds one. His character loyalty will end up costing him, but there's no guarantee he'll be better off picking a new character. Edited August 7, 2015 by GcYoshi13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Poultrygeist Report post Posted August 8, 2015 Guys, i've been wondering something: why there's almost zero counterpicking in the Guilty Gear scene? I'm an old SF/Marvel player and started playing Guilty in Xrd, since then i think i've never seen someone counterpick in this game. You'd think Fab would prepare a Chipp against Ogawa or something instead of suffering in this horrible Pot-Zato matchup but it never happens... i'm interested if anyone can say some reasons for this.Character lock in some cases + characters being overall more specialized than in other fighters. Realistically it'll get better results if you invest all your time into learning one character intimately than it is to spread it out against multiple characters on a decent level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
youcanwonder Report post Posted August 8, 2015 I think some people just like sticking w one char. Sometimes they branch out but most I think in the world of gg stick to their main..BC gg is full of some many options and like others say match up exp and seeing what u can do better Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coffeeling Report post Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) From my experience (this also applies to Blazblue), characters are generally too complex and unconventional where players couldn't have more than 3 viable pocket characters (most generally only main one character at a time).Characters in GG (this heavily applies to previous iterations before Xrd) are vastly complex with a lot of match-up niches that a player must learn. Polishing two characters is not easy unless you have the time and are truly dedicated.This deserves some highlighting. Coming from KOF, the amount of matchup-specific minutiae you have to learn is insane in comparison. Edited August 8, 2015 by Coffeeling Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Poultrygeist Report post Posted August 8, 2015 I feel like it's much less of an issue in BB. I'm a BB player, and since we don't have as many character specific factors as GG I feel it's easier to have a pocket character. In fact the number of high level players who have more than one character might surprise you. For instance, RYO plays both Relius and Ragna, SKD plays Izayoi and Ragna, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakestation Report post Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) Here is some of the arcrevo teams. minami, 0 , endouGazou, Mugen, Fino,Roi, Nage, NakamuraSamitto, FAB, Nakasu,Ogawa, Koichi, KarinchuDogura, Machaboo, KazunokoTaitsu, Otouto, Takehara,Zadi Sharon, HasegawaAin, BOB, KiishaTabun, Seri, RokkaDC, Kedako, Jigokusaka,Chappu, Hotaru, Umecha Edited August 9, 2015 by Jakestation more teams and fixed team ain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skd Report post Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) I feel like it's much less of an issue in BB. I'm a BB player, and since we don't have as many character specific factors as GG I feel it's easier to have a pocket character. In fact the number of high level players who have more than one character might surprise you. For instance, RYO plays both Relius and Ragna, SKD plays Izayoi and Ragna, etc.eek, my ragna is definitely not even close to being a pocket with any utility lol. I would never pick him over Izayoi atm, IIRC RYO's reasoning for picking Ragna (a while back) was because he thought Relius was a lot weaker than he was before, but he went back and i'm...fairly sure plays Relius almost exclusively now. I don't think he'd pick Ragna at all in a competitive sense. N-O plays Rachel and Ragna, and he's sticking to Ragna right now, barely see him playing Rachel anymore. Souji plays 2 characters, but in competitive environments it is almost /always/ Valkenhayn. Pretty sure it's way too difficult to upkeep 2 characters at that level, and unless its like...something to counter a particularly BAD matchup (even then, most players just stick to their guns) it rarely happens because you're often better off just being as proficient as possible, and that takes a lot.Picking another character not only takes time away from that, it takes a different mindset and approach to seriously play the character as well as possible, and switching back and forth between two can end up limiting in some ways. After all, youre talking about people at top level putting their all into one character, i doubt a player even of similar caliber would be able to juggle two characters and bring them to that level. I wouldn't say RYO's Ragna is comparable to his Relius at all, lol.I've been playing Ragna for years and the mental approach and response to situations is so different that picking him nowadays feels so silly. The level of focus required to play as cleanly as possible with a character's tools is something you really need to ingrain, i'm either going to hinder my Izayoi play by concentrating on playing him or play him at a much lower level. Edited August 8, 2015 by skd Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Poultrygeist Report post Posted August 8, 2015 Then I've made a mistake with that post. Oops. Well, either way, I guess the dude's question still got answered. I think most people feel it's safer to rely on what they know than to blatantly switch to a counter character you haven't put as much time in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king of heart Report post Posted August 8, 2015 Here is some of the arcrevo teams. minami, 0 , endouGazou, Mugen, Fino,Roi, Nage, NakamuraSamitto, FAB, Nakasu,Ogawa, Koichi, KarinchuDogura, Machaboo, KazunokoTaitsu, Otouto, Takehara,Ain, Sharon, HasegawaTabun, Seri, RokkaDC, Kedako, Jigokusaka,Chappu, Hotaru, Umecha Some corrections since I didn't check it allZadi (Sin) is with Sharon and HasegawaAin is with BOB and Kisha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Killey Report post Posted August 8, 2015 Ogawa's team looks pretty fucking cheap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leonard-Helsing Report post Posted August 8, 2015 Ogawa's team looks pretty fucking cheap....Because it has Ogawa in it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blade Report post Posted August 8, 2015 Counterpicking DOES exist in GG moreso than BB (at least in GGXrd) primarily because the roster is smaller and there's more opportunity to learn characters.I'm sure it'll show up more often the more knowledgeable players get (and considering not many changes are actually being made, it could be much sooner the longer the games are out).As of right now I can say I barely know how to play as anyone in BBCPEX, but in GGXrd I have a few characters I keep in rotation.That will probably change with time the longer I play. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king of heart Report post Posted August 8, 2015 Counterpicking DOES exist in GG moreso than BB (at least in GGXrd) primarily because the roster is smaller and there's more opportunity to learn characters.I'm sure it'll show up more often the more knowledgeable players get (and considering not many changes are actually being made, it could be much sooner the longer the games are out).As of right now I can say I barely know how to play as anyone in BBCPEX, but in GGXrd I have a few characters I keep in rotation.That will probably change with time the longer I play.Guess they were talking about top level playI remember Kazenuko switching to Ky to beat MarlinPie.but i doubt that's a thing he would ever think about doing here in Japan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blade Report post Posted August 8, 2015 They're ALWAYS talking about top level play. >_> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SoWL Report post Posted August 8, 2015 Well yeah, when people are asking about the reasons FAB doesn't counterpick, you'd assume it's about the high-level play. Any discussion below that would come down to "Do whatever works for you". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blade Report post Posted August 8, 2015 What FAB does at any waking moment doesn't really concern me.What concerns me is the lack of variety some players invest in characters that aren't their main.Yeah, I get that players stick with their mains through and through, but... I'm just what you'd call a random picker I guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D.R.F. Report post Posted August 8, 2015 Well the characters in GG are still pretty strong enough to where you can stand a chance against the entire cast. Some matchups can be very sadlife of course, but I don't think there is a matchup that is per se Chun Li vs Alex or Q Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9:02 PM Report post Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) I think the complexity of GG, and the depth of the characters and engine are what prevent more frequent counter-picking. Guilty Gear gives larger and more frequent payouts for detailed game/character knowledge than almost any other 2D game. Edited August 9, 2015 by 9:02 PM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meister Zeigler Report post Posted August 9, 2015 Guys, i've been wondering something: why there's almost zero counterpicking in the Guilty Gear scene? I'm an old SF/Marvel player and started playing Guilty in Xrd, since then i think i've never seen someone counterpick in this game. You'd think Fab would prepare a Chipp against Ogawa or something instead of suffering in this horrible Pot-Zato matchup but it never happens... i'm interested if anyone can say some reasons for this.Two things, tournaments are character locked in Japan, and character loyalism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TeeJay Report post Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) So..... Machaboo has a Zato?https://youtu.be/_3Dox-NAYMA?t=5468 Daigo uses like 2-3 fingers exclusively? Is that common? I know I have weak fingers but I never thought about not using them. Edited August 9, 2015 by TeeJay Share this post Link to post Share on other sites