[Xrd] News & Gameplay Discussion 2 - Console is Out!

[KD]

1 hour ago, deadite said:

I am sure. I have everyones intro and ending movies and the arcade and console trailers. I got the $100000 from completing it too. The locked movies come after both JackO opening and ending respectively.

Not sure what to tell you dude. My movie section has no locks(After Jack-O op, I have Sol ending. After Jack-O ending I have arcade ver 1st opening on PS4 US copy ver 1.02. Didn't bother to do it on JP version but it has the same amount of spaces.

[Jackie Chandler]

What are the best ways to grind World Dollars after finishing Episode/Tutorial/Story Mode and the majority of Combo/Mission Mode?

[deadite]

1 hour ago, Jackie Chandler said:

What are the best ways to grind World Dollars after finishing Episode/Tutorial/Story Mode and the majority of Combo/Mission Mode?

Well episode mode nets 3.1k per run in beginner and 4.1k in normal I havent tried higher difficulties.

[Abominable K]

5 hours ago, deadite said:

Well episode mode nets 3.1k per run in beginner and 4.1k in normal I havent tried higher difficulties.

Difficulty doesn't affect the amount of World Dollars gained, but the number of rounds will.  Max them and mash on Stylish Mode for over 10k a run.

[Jackie Chandler]

23 hours ago, deadite said:

Well episode mode nets 3.1k per run in beginner and 4.1k in normal I havent tried higher difficulties.

Oh, I had no idea. I thought the amount was only rewarded once per character. Thanks!

18 hours ago, Abominable K said:

Difficulty doesn't affect the amount of World Dollars gained, but the number of rounds will.  Max them and mash on Stylish Mode for over 10k a run.

Actually, with matches set to one round each, I think Beginner sets the reward to 3K and Easy sets it to 4K, but Normal and above only reward 5K. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

In any case, using the suggestion to take advantage of Stylish Mode, I tested a method to grind World Dollars automatically for a short time today and I'm fairly pleased with the results. I went to Episode Mode, changed the Rounds to 1 and the Difficulty to Beginner, and chose Ky. From there, I changed my button settings to have X use Slash, and used my fight stick's turbo mode to mash X while the button is held down.

I had to set it up on my lunch break from work, so I didn't get the chance to supervise it much. But when I came back from work today a few hours later, I had 30K more World Dollars than I had when I left, so the system must work somewhat.

I'd like to test some other characters to see if they yield more consistent results, because I'm fairly certain Ky didn't complete Episode Mode every attempt. I'll make a post about it here once I know more if anyone's curious.

[solidscheme]

1. Why did they make Kum's charged Four Tigers Sword such a weird motion? It could've just been 623[k] and let the spinning ground version be 41236k. It's like complicated for absolutely no reason. Also, Air Falcon Dive can be blocked crouching?

2.They seriously screwed Jam:

* 236s, +k does not knock down like in other versions. What's the point of it now (does anyone know)?

* She takes forever to charge a card.

* She's forced to use any card she has as soon as she does that specific charge-ready move. Taking away her mind-game with stored cards (since she can't use them later).

3. Venom's teleport should've had invulnerability on frame 1. For how extremely setup-dependent it is, it's like a waste of a potentially great move.

4. I've been playing a little bit of +R recently and have noticed the 623 motions come out more accurately in it than they do in Xrd. Has anyone tried this out before?
 

[youcanwonder]

Don't quote me...but if I'm not mistaken anytime you had charge cards for jams moves, they were always used right away..like said might be wrong on that. 

I've never had an issue w fireball options so I cannot confirm nor deny that. 

As far as kum goes, I don't mind his motions just take time to adapt to..and when u hold the button his do motions hits more 

[solidscheme]

14 minutes ago, youcanwonder said:

Don't quote me...but if I'm not mistaken anytime you had charge cards for jams moves, they were always used right away..like said might be wrong on that. 

I've never had an issue w fireball options so I cannot confirm nor deny that. 

As far as kum goes, I don't mind his motions just take time to adapt to..and when u hold the button his do motions hits more 

Not in +R. You can store them AND still use the regular versions.

[Destin]

This is based off #R.  There are many things missing from +R.

 

Your venom teleport idea would be horrible for this game.  Just horrible.

[MLSTRM]

On ‎21‎/‎06‎/‎2016 at 4:52 PM, KD said:

Not sure what to tell you dude. My movie section has no locks(After Jack-O op, I have Sol ending. After Jack-O ending I have arcade ver 1st opening on PS4 US copy ver 1.02. Didn't bother to do it on JP version but it has the same amount of spaces.

I have locked slots on Art, Voice, Movie and Character at the end of each section, and the amount would make sense to correspond to Dizzy. (EU version, patch 1.01 since we're getting 1.02 on Friday)

[solidscheme]

44 minutes ago, Destin said:

This is based off #R.  There are many things missing from +R.

 

Your venom teleport idea would be horrible for this game.  Just horrible.

You care to fully elaborate on that? You know instead of giving out a blanket statement? I'll be waiting.

[Destin]

1 minute ago, solidscheme said:

You care to fully elaborate on that? You know instead of giving out a blanket statement? I'll be waiting.

Giving venom and extremely safe, YRC'able escape option that can also pull him out of the corner and give him air options would be possibly the best escape option in the game.  Venom is a character that is fairly hard to approach, with one of if not the best projectile games, strong pokes, and solid anti airs.  His negative is that once pinned down, he is forced to deal with the mixup options the opponents have.  Giving venom such a slippery teleport would make him nearly impossible to have a handle on, and would make his matchup extremely unfun to play for many characters.  Can you imagine poor pote?  Jesus, that would be disheartening.

[solidscheme]

1 hour ago, Destin said:

Giving venom and extremely safe, YRC'able escape option that can also pull him out of the corner and give him air options would be possibly the best escape option in the game.  Venom is a character that is fairly hard to approach, with one of if not the best projectile games, strong pokes, and solid anti airs.  His negative is that once pinned down, he is forced to deal with the mixup options the opponents have.  Giving venom such a slippery teleport would make him nearly impossible to have a handle on, and would make his matchup extremely unfun to play for many characters.  Can you imagine poor pote?  Jesus, that would be disheartening.

Venom's teleport is extremely situational and based on pool-ball placement. Without pool-balls, the teleport goes barely anywhere. His design was to be a zoning character that utilizes his pool-balls for movement/spacing. For him to use his teleport effectively, he has to think 2-3 steps ahead. His teleport since GGX is barely ever used for this reason. How does a non-stop in-your-face character like Sol get a Vulcanic Viper with full invul (get the hell off of me) that actually does damage and knocks down, but the zoner (by design) has no effective option to zone (get away)? That's backwards. People are NOT suppose to go into auto-pilot/flow-chart when they knock a character like venom down (IF he has pool-balls in place). I don't see anyone complaining about Chip's fully-controlled teleport. It's things like this that keeps a specific list of characters in s-tier. We always say "don't nerf high-tier, just improve the others". Now it's "don't give the others what they need because it causes me to have to plan better for them".

[Reki]

1 hour ago, solidscheme said:

Venom's teleport is extremely situational and based on pool-ball placement. Without pool-balls, the teleport goes barely anywhere. His design was to be a zoning character that utilizes his pool-balls for movement/spacing. For him to use his teleport effectively, he has to think 2-3 steps ahead. His teleport since GGX is barely ever used for this reason. How does a non-stop in-your-face character like Sol get a Vulcanic Viper with full invul (get the hell off of me) that actually does damage and knocks down, but the zoner (by design) has no effective option to zone (get away)? That's backwards. People are NOT suppose to go into auto-pilot/flow-chart when they knock a character like venom down (IF he has pool-balls in place). I don't see anyone complaining about Chip's fully-controlled teleport. It's things like this that keeps a specific list of characters in s-tier. We always say "don't nerf high-tier, just improve the others". Now it's "don't give the others what they need because it causes me to have to plan better for them".

A 1f teleport that can escape corners for a zoner is an absurd luxury to ask for. Let alone in xrd with it's yrc system. Imo, Venom is as 'zoner' as dizzy and johnny. I don't recall these other characters having reliable reversals. Also, doesn't venom have a leg up in his matchup vs sol?

[solidscheme]

1 minute ago, Reki said:

A 1f teleport that can escape corners for a zoner is an absurd luxury to ask for. Let alone in xrd with it's yrc system. Imo, Venom is as 'zoner' as dizzy and johnny. I don't recall these other characters having reliable reversals. Also, doesn't venom have a leg up in his matchup vs sol?

2 Questions: What's the point of Venom's teleport? Why isn't it a used more by the pro players that use him?

[Reki]

Just now, solidscheme said:

2 Questions: What's the point of Venom's teleport? Why isn't it a used more by the pro players that use him?

It's exactly how it's used, to relocate venom's scrawny ass away from bad situations. It's mainly used to be proactively slippery to prevent venom from getting cornered. It's a good move but it's kept to have flaws like that so that it's not abuse-able. Actually you see this used vs sol since it slows him down and forces him to be aware of where you could end up. It isn't used more by pro players (jp) because they standardize safer strategies to keep them alive and other pro players will blow venom up if they call it out like by re-actively doing 6P under a ball. Double Head Morbid is actually used less if you're after usage number.

[solidscheme]

35 minutes ago, Reki said:

It's exactly how it's used, to relocate venom's scrawny ass away from bad situations. It's mainly used to be proactively slippery to prevent venom from getting cornered. It's a good move but it's kept to have flaws like that so that it's not abuse-able. Actually you see this used vs sol since it slows him down and forces him to be aware of where you could end up. It isn't used more by pro players (jp) because they standardize safer strategies to keep them alive and other pro players will blow venom up if they call it out like by re-actively doing 6P under a ball. Double Head Morbid is actually used less if you're after usage number.

Venom's teleport can't be abused. When he does it without a ball on screen, he by default appears above (vertically) his most recent position. Once again, he barely goes anywhere. If the opponent stays alert to if he has a ball out, that's the only place he can move to. Smart ball placement is supposed to reward a player. As it is right now, you have the high-tier characters who apply oppressive corner pressure ( http://www.redbull.com/us/en/esports/stories/1331797292555/peeking-into-guilty-gear-xrd’s-character-strengths ) and a character like Venom, who has a teleport that isn't used because like you wrote: Players have found safer strategies = useless move in a character's command list. Once again, you can't abuse a situation teleport.

[Jakestation]

His teleport is awesome mixup tool, its main use is not to be defensive tool, but offensive.

[solidscheme]

49 minutes ago, Jakestation said:

His teleport is awesome mixup tool, its main use is not to be defensive tool, but offensive.

It has the potential to be better than an one-dimensional tool. Even back in the day, N-Otoko would use it sparingly for offence and never for defense (because of those early frames). Venom and the other non-high-tiers are in the position they're in because they lack something/s. We want to see a variety of characters win big tournaments (like AC), but that can't happen if these characters aren't given the proper tools to keep the top-tier honest. Like I said before, Sol; a highly offensive character has the best reversal (space-controlling) move in the game. What sense does that make?

[Jakestation]

Sol needs VV more than venom. Venoms offense and zoning is far better than Sols. I would rather just adjust venoms defense to same as sols than give him more tools.

[Destin]

Characters that have to move forwards are generally at risk of being knocked down more than zoners.  This is pretty 101 stuff solid.

[rayplay]

23 hours ago, solidscheme said:

1. Why did they make Kum's charged Four Tigers Sword such a weird motion? It could've just been 623[k] and let the spinning ground version be 41236k. It's like complicated for absolutely no reason. Also, Air Falcon Dive can be blocked crouching?

2.They seriously screwed Jam:

* 236s, +k does not knock down like in other versions. What's the point of it now (does anyone know)?

* She takes forever to charge a card.

* She's forced to use any card she has as soon as she does that specific charge-ready move. Taking away her mind-game with stored cards (since she can't use them later).

3. Venom's teleport should've had invulnerability on frame 1. For how extremely setup-dependent it is, it's like a waste of a potentially great move.

4. I've been playing a little bit of +R recently and have noticed the 623 motions come out more accurately in it than they do in Xrd. Has anyone tried this out before?
 

I was gonna answer this post honestly, but then I saw that you wanted a teleport to be invincible on frame 1 and if you believe that, you don't need to be making any comments on character balance at your level.

[TheRealBobMan]

Dude, if you want a teleport buff, I'd definitely agree that they could make it so he warps to the oldest ball he has out (like previous games) instead of the newest.  The current version might be easier to understand, but Venom could put out a ball, then change it's position by putting out another ball, which made it harder for the enemy player to track and increased his options.  Instead of only warping to a ball's initial summon position, he had access to every position of every ball because he could summon in any order to set that up (provided he had time to get at least 2 balls out).  I'd also let him hit balls that are already in motion from being hit (like previous games), which also indirectly buffs the teleport since he could warp to a ball that whiffed and hit it again.  These would be pretty good offensive buffs.

Making his teleport fully invul on startup is a terrible idea though.  Do you hate trying to oki against Pot's backdash?  Now imagine that much invul, but Pot could warp to different parts of the stage, or imagine Slayer's backdash shenanigans, except give him Venom's range.

Your Chipp example isn't very good because his teleports aren't invul on startup (they actually only have a few invul frames in Xrd), and the VV example is bad because DPs have lengthy fully vulnerable recovery windows, whereas Venom's teleport has only 5 vulnerable frames at the end of it (only 1 in older games).  Part of Venom's cool points come from being built around having few defensive options (which are just the same ones everyone else always has), and having neutral + offensive options that make up for it.  Hell, in this game he even gets a new reversal option with Blitz Shield, even if it might hurt his offense more than it helps his defense, and can Burst power his Dark Angel to make it startup-invul.

If you want a zoner with a meterless reversal option pick Axl since they gave him one.  Or Ky.  Or you can ghetto reversal with Faust 5D.

I get it though.  You like Venom, but he's a little weaker than other characters.  It's not so much that he needs an escape tool as it's a problem with the stronger characters having really easy-mode setups that are difficult to escape, and everyone all-around seems to have fewer moves that lead to big reward on counter-hit (or the rewards have been reduced), so it's harder to turn a game around when you make a strong read and escape.  Tension pulse/balance seems to have a reduced effect, so if you're patient and IB a lot until you get your opportunity, you don't build quite as much meter once you get back to neutral as you would have built in older games, so that hurts too.  I feel some definite power creep since Johnny used to have to set up an Enkasu to set up Bacchus Sigh, which would probably cost at least 25% for an FRC for that flying combo, or 50% to RC the Ensenga (artificial Enkasu).  Now he can set up his unblockables off of wall-sticks, he can YRC Bacchus Sigh, has YRC on his transport moves which helps his mixup even more...  I get it, blocking is hard, and even if you're good at it, 3 of the top characters have unblockable tech (and Elphelt's is just "DUR I THROW GRENADE THEN SHOOT WITH RIFLE DUR").  Use Venom's offense to avoid having to block in the first place.  If you're forced to block, and you're not fighting ZA/EL/JO, then you have all the tools you need, even if it doesn't look like you do.  You can reversal BS, reversal backdash, reversal throw, OTG burst, reversal Gold Burst, reversal Burst powered Super, IB and FD to create gaps, and can Dead Angle.

 

And since I'm ranting about Venom, how many people think it would be cool if Bishop Runout was his Burst super instead of Dark Angel?  Pay your Burst to have it automatically start at 4 balls or something.

[solidscheme]

23 minutes ago, TheRealBobMan said:

Dude, if you want a teleport buff, I'd definitely agree that they could make it so he warps to the oldest ball he has out (like previous games) instead of the newest.  The current version might be easier to understand, but Venom could put out a ball, then change it's position by putting out another ball, which made it harder for the enemy player to track and increased his options.  Instead of only warping to a ball's initial summon position, he had access to every position of every ball because he could summon in any order to set that up (provided he had time to get at least 2 balls out).  I'd also let him hit balls that are already in motion from being hit (like previous games), which also indirectly buffs the teleport since he could warp to a ball that whiffed and hit it again.  These would be pretty good offensive buffs.

Making his teleport fully invul on startup is a terrible idea though.  Do you hate trying to oki against Pot's backdash?  Now imagine that much invul, but Pot could warp to different parts of the stage, or imagine Slayer's backdash shenanigans, except give him Venom's range.

Your Chipp example isn't very good because his teleports aren't invul on startup (they actually only have a few invul frames in Xrd), and the VV example is bad because DPs have lengthy fully vulnerable recovery windows, whereas Venom's teleport has only 5 vulnerable frames at the end of it (only 1 in older games).  Part of Venom's cool points come from being built around having few defensive options (which are just the same ones everyone else always has), and having neutral + offensive options that make up for it.  Hell, in this game he even gets a new reversal option with Blitz Shield, even if it might hurt his offense more than it helps his defense, and can Burst power his Dark Angel to make it startup-invul.

If you want a zoner with a meterless reversal option pick Axl since they gave him one.  Or Ky.  Or you can ghetto reversal with Faust 5D.

I get it though.  You like Venom, but he's a little weaker than other characters.  It's not so much that he needs an escape tool as it's a problem with the stronger characters having really easy-mode setups that are difficult to escape, and everyone all-around seems to have fewer moves that lead to big reward on counter-hit (or the rewards have been reduced), so it's harder to turn a game around when you make a strong read and escape.  Tension pulse/balance seems to have a reduced effect, so if you're patient and IB a lot until you get your opportunity, you don't build quite as much meter once you get back to neutral as you would have built in older games, so that hurts too.  I feel some definite power creep since Johnny used to have to set up an Enkasu to set up Bacchus Sigh, which would probably cost at least 25% for an FRC for that flying combo, or 50% to RC the Ensenga (artificial Enkasu).  Now he can set up his unblockables off of wall-sticks, he can YRC Bacchus Sigh, has YRC on his transport moves which helps his mixup even more...  I get it, blocking is hard, and even if you're good at it, 3 of the top characters have unblockable tech (and Elphelt's is just "DUR I THROW GRENADE THEN SHOOT WITH RIFLE DUR").  Use Venom's offense to avoid having to block in the first place.  If you're forced to block, and you're not fighting ZA/EL/JO, then you have all the tools you need, even if it doesn't look like you do.  You can reversal BS, reversal backdash, reversal throw, OTG burst, reversal Gold Burst, reversal Burst powered Super, IB and FD to create gaps, and can Dead Angle.

 

And since I'm ranting about Venom, how many people think it would be cool if Bishop Runout was his Burst super instead of Dark Angel?  Pay your Burst to have it automatically start at 4 balls or something.

Him having invul on frame 1 could be balanced out by adding more recovery at the end. His teleport isn't anything like Dhalsim's or Akuma's where they fully control where they go. Ball placement is very important. You wouldn't want to teleport if the ball is right next to an opponent in the neutral (especially with the added frames of recovery). Without any ball, if he's in the corner when using it, he'll still be in the corner. He'll just have a chance to have the opponent's oki to wiff if they go into auto-pilot mode.

No, I don't believe he should be teleporting around all over the place like Harry Keogh, but there are things that are keeping s-tier in their position and I would like to see the gap shrink as far as they can get it. Ok, let's discuss that: What do all the non-s-ranked characters need to be more equipped to consistently take major tournaments? Like Rayplay said, I'm not qualified for this, but I'm sure some of you at least have some ideas. 

[werewolfgold]

2 hours ago, TheRealBobMan said:

Dude, if you want a teleport buff, I'd definitely agree that they could make it so he warps to the oldest ball he has out (like previous games) instead of the newest.  The current version might be easier to understand, but Venom could put out a ball, then change it's position by putting out another ball, which made it harder for the enemy player to track and increased his options.  Instead of only warping to a ball's initial summon position, he had access to every position of every ball because he could summon in any order to set that up (provided he had time to get at least 2 balls out).  I'd also let him hit balls that are already in motion from being hit (like previous games), which also indirectly buffs the teleport since he could warp to a ball that whiffed and hit it again.  These would be pretty good offensive buffs.

This sounds really cool and I'm kind of angry that he doesn't have this now. lol

2 hours ago, TheRealBobMan said:

And since I'm ranting about Venom, how many people think it would be cool if Bishop Runout was his Burst super instead of Dark Angel?  Pay your Burst to have it automatically start at 4 balls or something.

I'd say that an argument could be had about just being able to apply the Burst boost to whichever Overdrive by changing the final input to D. But, I'm sure I'm forgetting some obviously broken super someone has that would make that a terrible idea.