[Xrd] News & Gameplay Discussion 2 - Console is Out!

[king of heart]

Zato needs to be nerfed hard. Hes just so dumb

He is not because dumb people can't play him

Just like Ogawa said: "nobody is willing to play a hard and weak character" aka KOF 13 Ash.

 

Also check all the Major tournaments worldwide and see if there was was a Zato wining beside him.

 

Check this out Ogawa is the only Zato between the best 40 players in Japan

 

http://ggxrd.com/pg/ranking_view.php?p=1&mode=exe&type=psr_rank&character=all&filter_type=area&guild=&term=

[D.R.F.]

He is not because dumb people can't play him

Just like Ogawa said: "nobody is willing to play a hard and weak character" aka KOF 13 Ash.

Also check all the Major tournaments worldwide and see if there was was a Zato wining beside him.

Check this out Ogawa is the only Zato between the best 40 players in Japan

http://ggxrd.com/pg/ranking_view.php?p=1&mode=exe&type=psr_rank&character=all&filter_type=area&guild=&term=

Hey man, talking about Ash that way hurts my feelings:(

[Coffeeling]

Ash isn't really worth the work in comparison, but at least he has dumb stuff he can do. He's more like Potemkin with 6K loops than a completely castrated character.

[Renly]

The only dumb characters in this game are Elphelt and Faust. Zato is hard to play and rarely does he land these crazy setups you cry about.

[Icekin]

.Check this out Ogawa is the only Zato between the best 40 players in Japan

 

http://ggxrd.com/pg/ranking_view.php?p=1&mode=exe&type=psr_rank&character=all&filter_type=area&guild=&term=

 

And then you get to 42 and it's Zato-world.

[GKHiryu]

The only dumb characters in this game are Elphelt and Faust. Zato is hard to play and rarely does he land these crazy setups you cry about.

If Zato rarely lands those crazy setups, then either the player in charge doesn't have them down or his opponent prevents him from doing that successfully. I usually see the unblockable once per two matches (3 rounds) or once per three matches (2 rounds) and I have years of Zato matchup exp.

[youcanwonder]

Guilty has never been a balanced game, and the developers know this. Its that way for a reason though, i feel they like it when weaker chars earn victories. Some chars will gets buffs and nerfs and then it will change again w a new update. Im glad they are updatimg the arcades w the console chars, arcades are bigger in JPN and im sure they wana get their hands on the console chars so more power to em. Ppl quot bitching and go w the flow.....imo

[king of heart]

Just like i asked before.

Can anyone with a premium Nico account upload the Tokaige 2015 Xrd stream to YouTube ?

http://sp.live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv207729131?frompc

[Sanger Zonvolt]

Not specific to Zato, but I don't think a character being hard to use is a good excuse for them being allowed to be ridiculous.

 

Also I-no was bottom tier in AC and very hard to play, people still put the work into her.

[king of heart]

Bottom tier were Johnny, Anji and Bridget.

[StylisH]

Not specific to Zato, but I don't think a character being hard to use is a good excuse for them being allowed to ridiculous.

 

Also I-no was bottom tier in AC and very hard to play, people still put the work into her.

 

I-No was mid tier in AC

[Sanger Zonvolt]

Bottom tier were Johnny, Anji and Bridget.

She was just a bit better than those three, but still very much on the low end.

 

Koichi considered her to be bad.

[king of heart]

Low and Bottom have different meanings.

I-No was a bad match up for Eddie the best character in the game.

[StylisH]

Low and Bottom have different meanings.

I-No was a bad match up for Eddie the best character in the game.

 

In AC that matchup was at best 5-5.  Eddie had no bad matchups, same as Testament.

[Sanger Zonvolt]

Low and Bottom have different meanings.

I-No was a bad match up for Eddie the best character in the game.

The point is I-no didn't have match ups in her favor across the board like Eddie AC and Zappa +R, most of her match ups were bad, and people still did bother to learn the character.

 

I'm not saying Zato needs to be nerfed in Xrd, I just don't like the idea of difficulty to play means the character is allowed to have outright better tools than the majority when applied to any balancing decisions for any games.

[king of heart]

In AC that matchup was at best 5-5. Eddie had no bad matchups, same as Testament.

http://kayin.moe/GuiltyGear/actiers.html

[Sanger Zonvolt]

-

[StylisH]

http://kayin.moe/GuiltyGear/actiers.html

 

I see your tell, and I'll raise you one:

 

Ogawa’s matchup list for Eddie(featured in July 2009 issue of Arcadia)

6:4 – Sol, Ky, May, Millia, Chipp, Faust, Baiken, Axl, Venom, Testament, Slayer, I-No, Bridget, Robo, Anji, Jam

6.5:3.5 – Zappa, Dizzy

7:3 – Potemkin, Johnny, A.B.A, Order-Sol

 

Source:

 

http://www.norematch.com/2011/10/18/ggxx-ac-tier-lists-and-matchups/

[king of heart]

I see your tell, and I'll raise you one:

Ogawa’s matchup list for Eddie(featured in July 2009 issue of Arcadia)

6:4 – Sol, Ky, May, Millia, Chipp, Faust, Baiken, Axl, Venom, Testament, Slayer, I-No, Bridget, Robo, Anji, Jam

6.5:3.5 – Zappa, Dizzy

7:3 – Potemkin, Johnny, A.B.A, Order-Sol

Source:

http://www.norematch.com/2011/10/18/ggxx-ac-tier-lists-and-matchups/

This is not a match up chart these are their different preferences and what match up they are comfortable with and not even different players with the same character can have different opinions.

Just like we said that 10000 times.

Even here in Japan no one managed to reach half of Ogawa's level unlike Konsome who can beat FAB.

Ogawa is just too humble to admit that he is wining with his own skills.

[StylisH]

This is not a match up chart these are their different preferences and what match up they are comfortable with and not even different players with the same character can have different opinions.

Just like we said that 10000 times.

Even here in Japan no one managed to reach half of Ogawa's level unlike Konsome who can beat FAB.

Ogawa is just too humble to admit that he is wining with his own skills.

 

So the best player with this particular character able to utilize said character to their max potential gives his honest opinion and you just let it fly by?  Tier lists and matchup charts are made, to the best of my knowledge, by analzying play at the highest level and determining the outcome in a best of 10 (usually) series.  I'm taking Ogawa's opinion on Eddie's matchups and running with it,  And last I checked, the man IS the highest level of Zato/Eddie out there. 

 

Ruu and Zatou both played two of the worst characters in the game, yet they bodied people left and right.  No one questions their bad matchups or the fact that they are bottom tier.  I wish people would stop using Ogawa as a crutch (not saying you are in particular) to say "well Zato is only good because no one else plays like him."  Get serious people.

[king of heart]

Now i am kinda wondering what are arguing about.

With all the stuff you are saying makes no sense.

Satou said the same thing that you wish people to stop saying.

And most of the top players at Mikado agree with that.

Why would they Nerf a character that is not dominating tournaments.

That's retarded.

[StylisH]

Now i am kinda wondering what are arguing about.

With all the stuff you are saying makes no sense.

Satou said the same thing that you wish people to stop saying.

And most of the top players at Mikado agree with that.

Why would they Nerf a character that is not dominating tournaments.

That's retarded.

 

We are getting off topic, so I'll say my last piece and let it go. 

 

I did get a bit off base from my point, which was that as THE Eddie/Zato player, Ogawa's opinion, while not law, goes a LONG way as far as matchups for his character is concerned. 

 

By the way, that list you provided was a bit outdated, but it's cool.  The original "thing" was his bad matchups.  I said none, you disagreed and claimed I-No. 

 

And now, back to our regularly scheduled program:

 

Nerfing Zato would have some problems.  He got nerfed in +R and NO ONE PLAYED HIM.  Note I didn't say he doesn't need changes, but outright flogging him with the nerf bat may not be the way to go.  Small changes here and there would be ok, mostly to Shadow S.  That move is a bit much.

[king of heart]

So we are agreeing on the same thing from a different perspective which is totally OK with me.

Anyway 4 days left and we will see what will happen to him.

[DaiAndOh]

Bottom tier were Johnny, Anji and Bridget.

 

Anji is not bottom tier in AC. That list you posted was from 2007. The game and character developed.

 

Don't get it twisted, he's not a hidden god, top or high tier. Just not at that level.

 

That list also has AC Millia in C...funny joke.

On another note, hoping ASW even for the test, releases changes. But even if not, our ability to communicate and translate with Japanese players is better than ever, so hopefully we'll see what's going on.

[GKHiryu]

Can't we just agree that Zato's mine - drill - thing should be removed? I mean it's only used for unblockables anyway, so it's not like he would lose anything not braindead. You know. Leave him strong as it is, just make him require skill consistently. Other than that I really don't see anything that should be nerfed. The most annoying stuff is shadow out of puddles, but that can be played around if you know yourself and the enemy.