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[Xrd] News & Gameplay Discussion 2 - Console is Out!

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I have been stomping 8th-10th Dan (LV18-20) Zato's on JP PSN today like they were nothing.

I can totally see why Ogawa tend to lose to Sol more than other characters.

If Sol and Eddie where 5/5 in AC

And Sol here is better and Zato is weaker than AC Eddie then I guess it now 4.5/5.5 in Sol's favor.

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EX drill fixed a huge flaw in him being really defenseless without the shadow.

Also the defense reduce in Xrd is something really major IMO.

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Can't we just agree that Zato's mine - drill - thing should be removed? I mean it's only used for unblockables anyway, so it's not like he would lose anything not braindead. You know. Leave him strong as it is, just make him require skill consistently. Other than that I really don't see anything that should be nerfed. The most annoying stuff is shadow out of puddles, but that can be played around if you know yourself and the enemy.

 

I can't speak for the development team, but I imagine they kept Eddie's drill in because they still wanted Zato to have access to unblockables while shifting them away from being the core of his gameplay.  Of his previous unblockable tools (Eddie's drill/puddle and overhead, HS drill FRC), the only one he has left is the one with the fewest setup options and requires heavy commitment; a well-timed burst hurts Zato more than other characters because you're removing Eddie from the picture for the duration of drill+recovery (also, wakeup backdash~YRC+FD).  He seems to be balanced around it as well given that his damage tends to be a bit low most of the time, and many of his combo routes don't grant a knockdown unless he terminates them early or burns a chunk of meter.  His ability to loop unblockables should be taken out though.  That's just a little ridiculous for this game.

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If Zato rarely lands those crazy setups, then either the player in charge doesn't have them down or his opponent prevents him from doing that successfully. I usually see the unblockable once per two matches (3 rounds) or once per three matches (2 rounds) and I have years of Zato matchup exp.

I'm talking about the only Zato that is doing well and that is Ogawa. Just saw 3 matches of his latest Mikado tournament and he set them up zero times for an unblockable. Do you really think that set up is common if you see it once per three matches? It is rare and stiuational.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhHlWS8-Op0

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOOJPOkNdsg

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Dunno but i hope they buff more than nerf, keep that shit in bb plz.

Zato's shark super also needs to be changed completely, it looks too cool to be so useless.

Maybe make it the old shadow d but costs meter or something for minimal shadow meter.

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I'm talking about the only Zato that is doing well and that is Ogawa. Just saw 3 matches of his latest Mikado tournament and he set them up zero times for an unblockable. Do you really think that set up is common if you see it once per three matches? It is rare and stiuational.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhHlWS8-Op0

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOOJPOkNdsg

 

I think that if I lose one round out of a possible six to eight due to a certain setup, then that's a tool that should be taken into consideration when we're talking balance changes. Even if character had combos and setups that are so improbable to pull off that it's safe to consider them combo movie only material you still have to keep them in mind if you're theorizing on how to balance a game.

 

Furthermore, just because Ogawa does something (or doesn't) is only one of the arguments for or against changing the move. By that logic, Potemkin should be nerfed. After all, FAB is ichiban* on the leaderboards. Not only the character's maximum should be taken into consideration, but options on other skill levels as well. We can praise Ogawa all we want but and overwhelming majority of the players will never fight him.

And sorry, but I don't think you read my whole post. I clearly said that it's possible for opponent to play well enough that Zato is prevented from setting up the UB most of the time.

*ichiban means "number one"

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We assume ogawa is using as close to the best tactics as possible, so if it is not being used, the tool is not as strong as you think it is.

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We assume ogawa is using as close to the best tactics as possible, so if it is not being used, the tool is not as strong as you think it is.

Oh ffs...

YOU assume Ogawa is using as close to the best tactics as possible.

That doesn't change the fact that you're missing the point. If you don't acknowledge that there's more to character balance than their absolute maximum potential then there's little we can talk about. I'll just say it again - there's a hundred players that will face Ogawa. The rest three hundred thousand that bought the game will never face anyone even close to that level.

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Oh ffs...

YOU assume Ogawa is using as close to the best tactics as possible.

That doesn't change the fact that you're missing the point. If you don't acknowledge that there's more to character balance than their absolute maximum potential then there's little we can talk about. I'll just say it again - there's a hundred players that will face Ogawa. The rest three hundred thousand that bought the game will never face anyone even close to that level.

Of course there is balance beyond the highest level.  Buuuuut, the breakpoints between balance you are considering are probably not the best ones.  If people are at a high level of eddie/anti-eddie play, then it is likely best to let them climb the ladder a few rungs more towards the highest level of play.  I can understand if you personally are bothered by the semi-unblockable, but there are apparently solutions and superior tactics beyond that.  

 

The drill is clearly intentional.  It was probably ALWAYS intentional.  Eddie has been perfectly balanced with the semi-unblockable before, they feel like he should be able to run his pressure game with little eddie and end it with a reset combo.

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I think that if I lose one round out of a possible six to eight due to a certain setup, then that's a tool that should be taken into consideration when we're talking balance changes. Even if character had combos and setups that are so improbable to pull off that it's safe to consider them combo movie only material you still have to keep them in mind if you're theorizing on how to balance a game.

 

Furthermore, just because Ogawa does something (or doesn't) is only one of the arguments for or against changing the move. By that logic, Potemkin should be nerfed. After all, FAB is ichiban* on the leaderboards. Not only the character's maximum should be taken into consideration, but options on other skill levels as well. We can praise Ogawa all we want but and overwhelming majority of the players will never fight him.

And sorry, but I don't think you read my whole post. I clearly said that it's possible for opponent to play well enough that Zato is prevented from setting up the UB most of the time.

*ichiban means "number one"

Except for the fact that Ogawa is the reason Zato is considered good. Nobody else is even close. One unblockable which isn't really an unblockable its a hard to block set up that is difficult to set up in the first place that happens maybe once in 3 games is not unbalanced. Remember that you have burst when this happens once in a blue moon. We were discussing if it was rare and as you can see it is rare against decent players. It really should not lose you the round.

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Except for the fact that Ogawa is the reason Zato is considered good. Nobody else is even close. One unblockable which isn't really an unblockable its a hard to block set up that is difficult to set up in the first place that happens maybe once in 3 games is not unbalanced. Remember that you have burst when this happens once in a blue moon. We were discussing if it was rare and as you can see it is rare against decent players. It really should not lose you the round.

Look at it from design perspective, not from arcade top10. Would you say Zato is mediocre if Ogawa was not around?

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