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[Xrd] News & Gameplay Discussion 2 - Console is Out!

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Well, from how everything's going up and down on how Rev 2 is going this weekend, I'd say, that depends. Some people having issues getting it to work, some don't.

Either way, I'll list what you can get in the majority of Rev 2 later on when I get it all 100% complete, again. Some other things of note I'll mention right now.

1. Digital Upgrade DLC (cross-buy) does not, repeat, does not give you Haehyun and Dizzy, only the standalone PS4 Physical/Digital version does.

2. Cosmetic DLC, such as Colors 18-22 + 23/Eclipse and System Voices for characters debuted in Rev 1 (and 2) + Slayers new VA are not included in Rev 2, they are still paid DLC.

1 hour ago, ___Chester___ said:

Where is Baiken's avatar on PS Store? :(

Gonna have to wait a little bit longer if its not in the PS Store. I know there's Answer's avatar, but that's much it for now.

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26 minutes ago, NeoStrayCat said:

Well, from how everything's going up and down on how Rev 2 is going this weekend, I'd say, that depends. Some people having issues getting it to work, some don't.

Either way, I'll list what you can get in the majority of Rev 2 later on when I get it all 100% complete, again. Some thing's of note I'll mention right now.

1. Digital Upgrade DLC (cross-buy) does not, repeat, does not give you Haehyun and Dizzy, only the standalone PS4 Physical/Digital version does.

2. Cosmetic DLC, such as Colors and System Voices for characters debuted in Rev 1 (and 2) + Slayers new VA are not included in Rev 2, they are still paid DLC.

Gonna have to wait a little bit longer if its not in the PS Store. I know there's Answer's avatar, but that's much it for now.

Also, if you have Revelator + DLC for it, and buy the standalone version of Rev 2, it looks like you have to buy your DLC for Rev 2 all over again. It didn't say "Purchased" in the PSN Store for any of Rev 2's DLC that Rev 1 had when I logged in, so it looks like no cross-buy there.

If someone else can confirm that, that would be great.

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I see, well, yeah, I guess they have Rev 2 as a seperate entity if you got the Standalone Physical/Digital version and that's a bit screwy. Although, considering they have their own DLC packs listed, and their own tiered bundles that also include Baiken/Answer in them. Eeeee, yeah...screwy!

Only the Cross-Buy works when you buy them as "Revelator" DLC, including the Answer/Baiken single DLC contents. Sheesh, things do/don't plan well, now do they.

Also, someone suggested from gamefaqs about the DLC issue if you're trying to upgrade...Do this if on PS4 with Upgrade Package.

PS4->Settings->PSN/Account Management->Restore Licenses.

That might help a bit, probably resetting your console might help out too. Also, if any other problems arise, remove demo save data, as it doesn't seem to carry any W$ from it whatsoever.

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1 day later and the Euro PS3 Digital version still isn't patched. The £13.99 paid patch for the Rev2 upgrade still does NOT work. Arc Sys are being utterly silent about this and PQube keep stating the same lie that "The patch is live, Arc Sys pushed the button themselves." And they're at MCM so we're fucked.

 

This is just plain deplorable. I'm gonna be trying for a refund.

 

.

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They had released this intro video a while back, but ASW uploaded an English version today.

 

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10 hours ago, werewolfgold said:

They had released this intro video a while back, but ASW uploaded an English version today.

I just came here after seeing that. It's a really good advertisement and I hope lots of people see it (not just Guilty Gear players).

This may be a dumb question, but does anyone actually use the handicap feature? I've never seen it get any use in any fighting game that has it; everyone seems to prefer playing even games.

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I do, only to test out some stuff, of couse, in a sense, you could make the fights short or last longer with the handicap feature, lol.

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Things like making I-no's Chemical love a little more easier to do (which is weird since Baiken's Suzuran is stiil old-school 63214 instead of just 214 or Yozan Sen still being a DP motion instead of 236 for no good reason like input overlap. Look at Millia's Bad Moon's motion for example) is good way to reduce skill gaps without taking away the practice needed to still execute and commit. Has the e-sport's push and people who don't actually play/understand these games become too strong? Can you imagine GG having that much input lag?

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On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 6:48 AM, Penguinator said:

 

The fact that you will put a normal out when a throw fails is already enough since the normals and their commands are balanced for that purpose (ie. aside from Sol 5K, there aren't any ridiculously fast throw OS normals because 6Ps and 6Ks are either antiairs,  overheads, or some sort of traveling kicks). Throws need to be done at practically point-blank range so they require several free frames for movement with either really fast walk speed (eg. Bedman, Jam) or dash FD break (all characters), which means they lose to both mashing and fuzzy jumps (and in situations where there's no time for normals, you can predict the throw and throw them back which results in either your succesful throw or a succesful throw tech). Mashing (which includes throw-mash since non-succesful throw puts out a normal) loses to frametraps, so instead of a SFIV situation where tech option selects are ridiculously strong, throws in GG are part of the natural and universal fighting game RPS cycle where block beats striking, throw beats blocking, and strike beats throws (GG has around 8F of throw invuln on wake-up). BB avoids teching being too strong with Throw Reject Miss mechanic, but in the end it leads to same results as GG: you were thrown because you were being too passive on defense (ie. holding down-back and barrier-tech instead of trying to mash or jump out).
While having a throw command by itself wouldn't be that different, if throws were made to have longer startups, they would completely lose their meaning as a defensive option. IB + throw is one of the strongest defensive options in the entire game, and the fact that it's universal for every single character is what makes it a really great mechanic (eg. some characters have only 6F normals as their fastest punish options, so losing instant throws would really hurt them). Airthrows are the only valid antiair option in many situations, so making it weak would mean some characters would become much worse and overall lower the skill ceiling for top level play (eg. awesome stuff like Machaboo or Ogawa airthrowing people in the wildest situations would simply not exist).
 
Having rolls would probably end up in the same result as BB: while there are various options for ground recovery, some characters simply have projectiles / setups that either beats all non-invulnerable options (quick rise, roll, not waking up) or creates a huge advantage on safe wake-up (neutral tech) which means in reality you have only two valid options. Changing Xrd in that way would require a huge amount of rebalancing (mostly thanks to all the YRC okizeme setups) and since characters with strong okizeme are designed to be what they are, they would most likely remain to be strong even after the changes so only the gap between strong and weak okizeme would get bigger.

Burst Overdrives apply for the big, cinematic Overdrives that every character has only one of. In general they have long startups and big damage, which means they work well as reversals: Burst version even adds invulns to the ODs that originally didn't have any like Venom's Dark Angel or May's Great Yamada Attack. The other ODs characters have usually serve different purposes and would require a completely different approach to balancing.
For example, Axl's Shark Strike has 5F startup, almost fullscreen range, but low overall damage and no invulns since it's designed for long-range combo extensions and punishes. Should a Burst version of it be invulnerable and do loads of damage? If not, then should it have some other additional effect? What happens with ODs like Sol's Dragon Install and Millia's Chroming Rose which aren't even traditional moves? Once again, this would only mean loads of work on balancing for a pretty trivial thing.

As Ishiwatari has said in past interviews, one major theme of Xrd was to simplify things (eg. replacing move-specific tight FRC windows with all moves having lenient YRC windows) to make gameplay smoother. Adding complicated wake-up options, Force Breaks, and more Burst supers would be the opposite of that, and trying to balance it would be truckloads of more work for the developers that could be used for something much more interesting like new characters or completely new normal/special moves for existing characters (ie. what is already happening with Rev2).

It would be extremely easy to avoid OS grabs situations. All you need to do is have an algorithm that exclusively keeps track of the grab's original hitbox. Street Fighter 3 has a programming setup where the grab's hitbox became the body's location. No matter what is being done, the game should look at a grab attempt and say "what is the original hitbox positioning?" Right now grabs are way too strong. Grab-breaks always look accidental and happen once in a blue moon. It would be nice if a player could react to and punish a throw attempt. Right now it's a vacuum with one frame.

Pressing two buttons to grab means that you're really going for a grab.

Wake-up options are for better back-n-Forth gameplay. Blitz Shield is not affective against many oki situations. Wake-up options makes sure players don't go into auto-pilot and keep their offense varied and honest. Arc took Millia's knock down with Jumping HS away because of how auto-pilot it was. If you're waiting to bait a recovery and it doesn't come, you've wasted your oki opportunity. It's called mind-games. It works the same way if a player doesn't understand that Y character recovers from a knock down slower than X character. A player HAS to be aware of how much meter their opponent has when downed even more than just watching for BS. Limiting player's options because a new/old player has to think more on offense is not a good excuse.

Baiken had Status effects before they were turned into Force Breaks. They could easily be an option she could have after hitting with an Azami/ Suzuran follow-up. They changed the way her counters worked completely, why not the status effects? Like with Hakumen's Drive in BB (which was nerfed), if people are really going to utilize Azami in their strategy, there must be a better reward for putting yourself in such a risky position (literally). She just seems a bit lacking in ways of putting the opponent into her game plan (which is mostly ground-based). Under-utilized moves are such because they are not worth it (like Jack-O's explosion).

In ACR, this is what is written for Baiken on the wiki:

Pros/Strengths

  • Tensionless guard cancels.
  • Multiple excellent ways of breaking out of pressure.
  • Great Anti-Air and Air-to-Ground.
  • Can seal opponent's options with Force Break.

Cons/Weaknesses

  • Poor throw range.
  • Bad attack speed.
  • Below average damage without tension

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Not going to quote all of that, but it looks to me like Baiken is meant to be a defense-oriented character, right? Even without bringing back Force Breaks, they could have managed to fold her debuffs back into her moves. I wonder what their reasons for not doing that were.

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27 minutes ago, tokin fuyou said:

Not going to quote all of that, but it looks to me like Baiken is meant to be a defense-oriented character, right? Even without bringing back Force Breaks, they could have managed to fold her debuffs back into her moves. I wonder what their reasons for not doing that were.

People (mostly casuals I'd say) don't like fighting against defensive characters nor watching them fight, because it's "boring". Just like grapple characters *stares at Potemkin*. Like how Mori struggled to balance Hakumen, and in CP completely revamped the "offensive" capabilities of his counter altogether, but that's a whole nother subject not made for this thread.

 

Being someone who used to main Hakumen aside, I always loved watching Baiken's matches against the cast. There were so many mind games going on in her matches, her versus Jam where she could parry Baiken's counters, or her versus Anji where the match consisted of baiting each other into commit attacks and countering appropriately.

 

Azami, in my opinion, has some very interesting utility that traditional countering may not offer. However, it takes way too long to activate, and has way too much recovery. It's so rarely used now at high level that I can barely even call her the defensive character of the series. Point blank wakeup supers can't even be countered by her, especially when she's on low health.

But my opinion is kinda moot, I'm not playing in Japan and I haven't played against her yet, nor do I play her.

 

Still curious what people have to say about her though.

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8 hours ago, BladeOfJustice7 said:

Azami, in my opinion, has some very interesting utility that traditional countering may not offer. However, it takes way too long to activate, and has way too much recovery.

Isn't azami active on the first frame? Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying. I agree with the recovery part though, Baiken is pretty much dead if azami doesn't catch anything.

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Yeah, for what it is, Azami (or Suzuran) has to be pulled off within the first active frame, so you gotta prepare for that shit plently if you wanna counter your opponents.

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Anji is in Bacon's story mode, but no Testament in Dizzy's? Sadness.

Though the flashback to the classic X2 Sacred Grove stage was neato.

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6 minutes ago, kosmos badgirl said:

Story Part B is only up for Japan?.

What.....???!!!!!

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13 minutes ago, BladeOfJustice7 said:

What.....???!!!!!

 

Looks like is out in Japan with the last update. I'm talking about After Story B .

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Already!?  Working fast.  I'm guessing that 1.02 Patch contains this in part.

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23 hours ago, SixWingedAngel said:

After Story B is out for Eu at least!!

 

Is not out for me. This comes with update 1.02?.

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