[Xrd] News & Gameplay Discussion 2 - Console is Out!

[Nobus3r1]

With all the...discussion of danger time I actually found a mechanic(?) is GGXrd that is, as best as I can tell, handing things differently than any other fighting game I've experienced and that is how the game handles draw rounds with an uneven round count.  So I'm up on some ranked random 1-0 and we get a double KO in round 2.  In most games this would end up as either a do-over OR with both players getting credit for a round and thus the player who is already up a round winning the game (assuming best of 3).  Not so here.  The game gave my opponent the round and we moved on to round 3.  I guess my point is that it's kind of garbage that someone who is down a round is being put in a position to win when they really didn't earn it.  Draws rounds should either count for both players with whatever comes from that OR shouldn't count for either player IMO.

[Hollysmoke]

When's the last time we had a Samurai Showdown game that mattered? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Nobody has been complaining about it, most have been discussing it. I like it but I also don't like it; it has its pros and cons, and that's whats been talked about. You don't need to attack the people in a discussion thread for having an open discussion. Use one of the following templates if you're having trouble:

"I [insert optional "dis-" prefix here]like [insert thing here] because [insert explanation here]"

IE: "I like I-No because she has a snazzy guitar and fun, gimmicky playstyle". Your turn, people.

It's okay to not like a thing, just don't be a jerk about it.

[Maho]

With all the...discussion of danger time I actually found a mechanic(?) is GGXrd that is, as best as I can tell, handing things differently than any other fighting game I've experienced and that is how the game handles draw rounds with an uneven round count.  So I'm up on some ranked random 1-0 and we get a double KO in round 2.  In most games this would end up as either a do-over OR with both players getting credit for a round and thus the player who is already up a round winning the game (assuming best of 3).  Not so here.  The game gave my opponent the round and we moved on to round 3.  I guess my point is that it's kind of garbage that someone who is down a round is being put in a position to win when they really didn't earn it.  Draws rounds should either count for both players with whatever comes from that OR shouldn't count for either player IMO.

This is actually in every Arc Sys game, it was really bad in BBCS because as you technically didn't lost a round, you didn't get your second burst while your opponent got his from the first round loss.

[4r5]

If both players are at match point and you got a draw, in any ASW game it would be a do over, but in HnK both player get a Lose. 

[Final Ultima]

Clash a non jump cancelable move against Potemkin and trigger Danger Time when you're a character that doesn't have a frame-1 airborne or throw invul attack.  Good luck not getting Pot Bustered after the 3-2-1-Go.  If it was just a regular clash the Pot would have to predict it to take advantage of the clash, which would be risky considering that he'd otherwise special cancel into a throw on block if there was no clash and whiff because of the restriction on throwing someone that's in block stun.

 

You can just tap Faultless Defense once the countdown hits 1 and then hold any upward direction and you'll get an empty Faultless Defense Cancel into a jump as soon as you regain control. It doesn't even spend any Tension, which is actually pretty moot because clashing gives you Tension anyway.

[Maho]

If both players are at match point and you got a draw, in any ASW game it would be a do over, but in HnK both player get a Lose. 

That remembers me the Raoh draw glitch I saw a few times on  the arcade version, when you had Raoh on match point and there was a time out draw, at the post-match screen, the character that just lost by rounds count would actually be credited for the win.

[Nyaa]

You can just tap Faultless Defense once the countdown hits 1 and then hold any upward direction and you'll get an empty Faultless Defense Cancel into a jump as soon as you regain control. It doesn't even spend any Tension, which is actually pretty moot because clashing gives you Tension anyway.

 

Does clashes give tension no matter what? Just to theorize here, what if you are in the air, have 0 tension and clash with a move that gives 0 tension, against a character with a meterless DP and danger time is invoked, what can you do but eat the following DP? I mean, sure it's no different from a clash in terms of options you can do but the countdown gives the DP-character quite some time to confirm that 1) you don't have a meterless DP, and 2) you do not have tension to cancel into FD.

 

Or can you always tap FD to cancel clash into regular block?

[Hollysmoke]

Does clashes give tension no matter what? Just to theorize here, what if you are in the air, have 0 tension and clash with a move that gives 0 tension, against a character with a meterless DP and danger time is invoked, what can you do but eat the following DP? I mean, sure it's no different from a clash in terms of options you can do but the countdown gives the DP-character quite some time to confirm that 1) you don't have a meterless DP, and 2) you do not have tension to cancel into FD.

 

Or can you always tap FD to cancel clash into regular block?

Clashes go into neutral so...block? You'll have tension regardless because it's a clash so you'll always have the option to cancel into FD. FD into block.

[bmckay]

Clashes go into neutral so...block?

Exactly this. Danger time is only a gamble. You can either ignore it by blocking and backing away and hoping for the best, or you can try to get that first hit in. I don't like it either, but there it is. Escape it with the neutral reset or try to win the scrum. 

 

In other news, I hope someone is working on translating the loketest notes from tests 2&3. I mean, if I remember correctly, we still don 't even have a full translation for test 1 either. 

[Final Ultima]

Does clashes give tension no matter what? Just to theorize here, what if you are in the air, have 0 tension and clash with a move that gives 0 tension, against a character with a meterless DP and danger time is invoked, what can you do but eat the following DP? I mean, sure it's no different from a clash in terms of options you can do but the countdown gives the DP-character quite some time to confirm that 1) you don't have a meterless DP, and 2) you do not have tension to cancel into FD.

 

Or can you always tap FD to cancel clash into regular block?

 

Clashes always grant Tension, so tapping Faultless Defense is always possible (outside of not having a Tension Gauge). That being said, the Tension Gain from a clash is susceptible to Tension Gain penalties, so clashing immediately after a Roman Cancel will only give you a sliver of Tension. As most grounded attacks require Faultless Defense to block in the air and doing so eats up Tension way faster than being on the ground, being in this situation against a character with say... a multi-hitting DP could very well pose a problem, although the situation itself is obviously quite rare.

 

Clashes go into neutral so...block?

 

Incorrect. You do not return to neutral during a clash, it just has a bunch of additional cancel options that the move would not otherwise have. A clash cannot be canceled into a regular block, any form of walk or jump, backstep, air backdash or Instant Kill Mode. Of course, you can just tap Faultless Defense (as stated above) to return to neutral and then do what you want.

 

In other news, I hope someone is working on translating the loketest notes from tests 2&3. I mean, if I remember correctly, we still don 't even have a full translation for test 1 either. 

 

Location Test #2 changes have been translated since right after the PDF was first released, I just don't think anyone posted the full list in the thread. The Location Test #2 change list includes all the changes from Location Test #1, so there's no need to look at the Location Test #1 change list. As for Location Test #3, there is currently no official change list, the official GGXrd website never even announced that a third location test was taking place in the first place, it was just delivered in the form of a tweet with a link to an announcement on the Arc System Works website.

All I can remember from my cursory glance for info on the day is that Ky's Aerial Stun Edge got a Attack Level decrease, Aerial Ride the Lightning got an untechable time increase and Sacred Edge now hits earlier at the tip so that ranged 6K > Split Ciel, Sacred Edge is now possible. Potemkin's j.K got an Attack Level increase so it can now combo into I.C.P.M. and Heat Extend now knocks down (these changes complete with Consomme screaming "Arc thank youuuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!!!!" and "Welcome back, Potemkin"), but Trishula has reduced untechable time so the 6K > Trishula loop from Location Test #2 can't get 3 reps anymore. Axl got his guaranteed projectile point on Rensengeki (aka Rensen Beam) from Location Test #1 back and his 5P got a beefier hitbox at the end, among some other things. Venom got the extra hits on Dark Angel from Location Test #1 back, and there was... something about QV into S Carcass Raid? Slayer got a 2S > 2HS gatling and I saw mention of something else regarding 2HS, but I can't recall exactly what changed. I think it launches lower on Counter Hit now, maybe regular hit too. Several characters appear to be completely unchanged or changed so little that no-one can really determine what changed.

[Hollysmoke]

-Snip-

I fixed my post. My bad, was tired. You still have defensive options regardless of the outcome. You'll have tension from the initial aggression into clash so you can just cancel FD into a regular block as long as you remember to FD first.

[Angry Guy of DE]

I'm saying Mappa Hunch on HIT against Ram.

Besides that, Slayer's Forward dash doesn't have invul on frame 1 so you get hit by her 5P.

On Hit I guess mappa hunch is only even or something since Ram's 5P is 4 frames to Slayer's 5P at 5 frames.

land a combo on Ram, now I have to be on the defensive as a result :/

[Nyaa]

When does Slayer forward dash have invu-frames? The wiki is pretty lacking on his forward dash. If it's all about the frames what's wrong with Ram? There are other characters with faster startup moves and DP (Looking at you Sol...) and, the majority of the cast got 4f moves anyway.

 

If you're at even frames with Ram 2K will go under her 5P I believe. At worst it will trade against her 2K and if that happens you're in +2 against her.

[Maho]

There's only 6 character with 4f normals, 2 of which have a 3f one, we can also add Potemkin with his 3f PB, but that's far from the majority of the cast.

[Angry Guy of DE]

The problem with that further spaced combos that end with Mappa you have to use the K version because the P version won't reach it in time.

If P Mappa went a little further or was faster in how it traveled Slayer probably could 2K under most attempts to mash simply because of the near one character width gap between both people.

K Mappa is honestly a little goofy with its active frames where in a normal combo ending with it you hit with the first active frame (K mappa has 6 active frames) of the hitbox and the rest pretty much doesn't get used. 

That said, Meaty K Mappa on air borne opponents from things like CH Eternal Wings or 6H on airborne opponents can allow Slayer to link a c.S afterwards for real damage.  But P Mappa?  only really used in BDC and not in combos because it often times doesn't reach.

[daymendou]

4Gamer wiki gives Slayer forward dash invulnerability as strike from 5-7F and full from 7-12F, so 8 frames strike and 6 frames full. I guess you could reversal dash through some 5F moves depending on active frames

This isn't relevant on hit, but Elphelt has 2 Shotgun moves that are 3F.

[SuperJ]

capcom: we're listening, and we hear your voices loud and clear. that's right...... K mappa is now +1 on block. we've gotten a lot of feedback from slayer mains who have problems getting in and ending their combos with sweep.

[Pichy]

Slayer also has 4f of jump startup (so, 3 if you FD correctly) and backdash invul from frame 1. A backdash that... cancels into jumps and specials. So if she tries to mash Punch you BDC Mappa and use that counterhit to knock them down.

[king of heart]

One of the weirdest thing I heard is that Slayer's Bite damage will boost with each bite.

Not sure how it works.

[Martikol]

BDC mappa loses to mash.....

[heavymetalmixer]

Sorry, didn't see the date in the PDF.

Edited March 10, 2015 by heavymetalmixer

[lofo]

Danger time is an universal hated game mechanic that every player wants removed.

Nah, I think it's great. It's entirely engineered around creating ridiculous and hype situations, and at worst you can go super defensive.

 

edit - Slayer can BDC bite after mappa hit to beat mash btw. BDC DOT can also work

[Hollysmoke]

Has anyone released any information on the 3rd loketest yet? Or is it one of those just bug fixes and 0 balance patches.

[jak d ripr]

Has anyone released any information on the 3rd loketest yet? Or is it one of those just bug fixes and 0 balance patches.

 

Yea we got some info in the pot forums, apparently j.k has been buffed and ICPMs start-ups been reduced so now we can actually turn stray j.ps into a corner carry and knockdown. So I guess in summary, yes, there seem to have been some changes at this loketest, I have no idea why they haven't been posted yet.

[Mumm-Ra]

So was ABA confirmed already?