[Xrd] News & Gameplay Discussion 2 - Console is Out!

[Uncivilized Elk]

It's a solid C. Serviceable. 

 

People who say it's unplayable are ridiculous. People who say there's nothing wrong with it are also ridiculous. Rare time that the middle ground isn't a fallacy IMO.

 

But it's barely an improvement from +R when I'm playing with the people I played +R with. It seemed to even out the worse connections but didn't make the subpar/decent-ish connections any better.

[nyyyyy]

They patched the netcode twice within 20 days, what more do you want? they are working on it.

 

I think one of the problems is that different people have different standards. The fighting game market is simple: Street Fighter wont lose players to any other title the same way Guilty Gear wont lose players to Street Fighter. This gives developers a lot of room to fuck up without having to fix their mistakes as fast as possible. The fans are loyal and used to a P2P model. What are the people going to do about online being shit? Play less? Fine, less server load for us.

 

However, if you come from a competitive PC gaming background youre not used to this level of fuck ups. F2P models mean that you would lose a shit ton of money if your game wasnt playable for a week. Netplay is what these games are about and is why its never flawed (apart from CS:Source which was ridiculously bad in the beginning). There are also a truckload of alternatives with decently sized communities. Something consoles generally lack.

 

Fighting games used to be an offline only genre. Recently developers started to understand that they have to change if they ever want to jump on the cashgrab bandwagon. SFV's cross platform play is the perfect example here. Of course it will take time for them to adapt. But its still logical that a person who is used to the flawless netplay provided in any other genre in existence will end up being disappointed and maybe even shocked by the abysmal quality provided by japanese studios. Because lets be honest, most japanese developers provide an abysmal online experience. That even applies to RPGs or MMOs.

 

I still remember people telling me that the EU servers of FFXIV:ARR were located in Canada and caused players to have ~160ms. No western studio would consider this an acceptable situation. You dont label it EU when the servers are located in NA. Youre blatantly lying to your customers about something that they will notice the second they log into the game. Thats how little japanese studios understood about a proper online environment. I am optimistic that this will change soon though.

[Sanger Zonvolt]

Netcode was unplayable before, but the new patch has really fixed almost everything.

 

1f-2f for most matches is a huge turn around.

 

People on the JPN version will have to deal with 12f delay just a little longer.

[entnervt]

Yeah, until tomorrow. Which is only a few hours away in Japan.

[deadite]

Fighting games will always be an offline experience for me. It's the only genre that I can not tolerate any kind of input lag. Slight input lags don't really matter much in RTS or FPS. In fighting games, were every frame matters, I won't be doing any online until we get light speed internet, but by then we'd be complaining about net code fighting someone from Jupiter Station. I'm glad we have sizable community where I live and we get to meet up at least once a week.

[nyyyyy]

Fighting games will always be an offline experience for me. It's the only genre that I can not tolerate any kind of input lag. Slight input lags don't really matter much in RTS or FPS. In fighting games, were every frame matters, I won't be doing any online until we get light speed internet, but by then we'd be complaining about net code fighting someone from Jupiter Station. I'm glad we have sizable community where I live and we get to meet up at least once a week.

 

If youre seriously implying that 30ms latency doesnt have as much of an impact on a CPMA/QA match as it does on a fighting game then your opinion is basically worthless. Every game is based on pixels. FPS games arent any different in that regard. Why do you think 120Hz are a thing in FPS? Because frame advantage is neglectable? 

 

The point is that people are used to a better experience which is the reason why they tend to bitch. And as of right now, fighting games are the only genre that provides a rather bad one. I dont really see a logical explanation why this shouldnt be changed.

[huber]

Slight input lags don't really matter much in RTS or FPS. In fighting games

you're wrong and bad

[SoWL]

Accidental double-post, hurr.

Edited December 25, 2014 by SoWL

[SoWL]

People who say there's nothing wrong with it are also ridiculous.

If you mean me, all I did was report my own experiences with it. Of course, seeing all these weird bug reports raised some questions, but why should I call the netcode bad if it was all good for me?

[Chev]

you're wrong and bad

He's half right. In most RTS for example the networking model, called lockstep networking, is delay-based with huge built-in input lag (ie depending on the game your units will execute orders with a lag that can be up to half a second by default, which is hidden quite simply by the fact your unit will give a vocal answer immediately. Since you don't have direct control you can't feel the difference, especially since the same lag will be built into offline modes) and so high lag isn't a problem. FPS use an asymmetric model where only the server or host is authoritative and everyone else get delays combined with rollbacks, which are compensated in other ways. For example in the Source engine there's a 100ms delay on everything, only hidden to the player through having only his own character move locally with 0 delay and rollbacks, and having weapons compensate for the 100ms delay server-side (basically they shoot players' past selves).

 

Fighting games are more directly sensitive to lag because (at least so far) for better of for worse the genre isn't willing to make the same concessions to accuracy shooters, where no player has a correct view of the game, did.

[o Nereus o]

I really don't understand why the online is an f- to you lol. You do realize there's other games with way worse online out there, right?

 

 

It's like, you're a teacher and cause one kid got a 100 in his test, every other kid who didn't get a 100 but maybe got 95 instantly gets a zero cause if this one kid got 100 so should every other kid. This is not how grading is supposed to work lol.

You can't really use that argument. If a Netcode is shit.. a netcode is shit. Plain and Simple. 

[D.R.F.]

Rollback when? #GGPOsaveus

[TheRealBobMan]

I played for a few hours last night and while I had ONE game that was in the 12-20fps range, my worst games fluctuated between 4-7 and my best games were a stable 2-3.  It feels way better than +R did.  Now I just need to get some quality internet to improve it further.

[Syklone]

Let's not attack other members guys. Even if what they're saying is uninformed lol

[D.R.F.]

Yea. The game has improved for me. I still get like 20 frame spikes every now and again with a body though

[Dreiko]

You can't really use that argument. If a Netcode is shit.. a netcode is shit. Plain and Simple. 

Yeah and if it's neither the best netcode ever nor horrible and unplayable, it doesn't deserve an F. That's all I'm saying.

[Uncivilized Elk]

Yeah and if it's neither the best netcode ever nor horrible and unplayable, it doesn't deserve an F. That's all I'm saying.

It's subpar. 

Again, horrible and (literally) unplayable is 0 - 10%. If it's actually unplayable it's the same as not having a netcode at all. You can boost that by 50% and still be in the F zone, because guess what below 50% people stop giving fucks about what letter to assign. 

Your grading is bad, and there are teachers out there harsher than you.

[Circuitous]

Alright, make a fucking thread if you guys want to keep arguing about the netcode.

[JRSven]

My GG Xrd started freezing before the title screens. I've tried deleting and reinstalling the data, but it's still doing it. Suggestions?

[XXXDC]

My GG Xrd started freezing before the title screens. I've tried deleting and reinstalling the data, but it's still doing it. Suggestions?

Ps4 ver?

Might have to do with PSN being down (hacked or something).

[king of heart]

These arguments reminded my how much I miss the PS2 days where we judge games by offline experience.

I never had any problem online ever since game was released in Japan.

[JRSven]

I unplugged my Ethernet, and it works now. I guess it hangs waiting for a PSN response

[Orrax]

I think I have seen more complaining about this game than any other game I've played. The game's fun, and most people seem to think it's fun, and then I see people making a huge deal out of practically everything that bothers them.

 

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that people shouldn't complain or that the complaints aren't valid. I'm just amazed at how much time people spend focusing on the negative aspects of the game as opposed to the positive aspects.

[Renly]

I've played over 200 matches online. The netcode is far from being bad. Like it got worse after the first patch but now it's good. It's crossplay with PS3 which is really cool. I'm happy with it. If they make it even better, great. The fact that I can get 2frame delay vs japan on wireless connection is amazeballs to me.

[TheRealBobMan]

Hey, so I was just messing around with IAD j.P > VCL YRC.  I usually delay the VCL by a few frames to make it easier to YRC in the window where the other player isn't in hit stun (also to try to bait them to push a button), but I'm confirming that if you manage to cancel the j.P directly into VCL and YRC in that one frame gap, the 6 frames of YRC startup are instead replaced by immediate YRC when the VCL hits on the same frame.  Fortunately the proration added by the time slow doesn't apply in this case even though the YRC is technically occurring on the same frame the other player is getting hit, which should probably be putting them in hit stun and causing it to be RC instead of YRC.  Whatever, costs less meter and leads to more damage.  I'm not complaining.

 

I was seeing footage of j.P > VCL YRC frame traps long before the console verison came out, but had no way of knowing 100% if they had to delay to account for the YRC start up or not.

 

Still, this is different behavior compared to non-projectile attacks.  If you YRC a projectile and it hits during that 6 frames, you get a YRC on hit.  If you attempt to YRC a physical attack and it hits during those 6 frames, it becomes RC, or at least it feels like that's what happens.

 

Another example of the projectile thing is point blank Note.  If you YRC right as it appears, it'll be frozen there during the screen flash and hit during the time slow for reduced damage (in this case it's actually possible to throw right before the note hits even though it's on top of the other character).  If you YRC such that it hits, you'll actually have the exploding note image while the YRC is activating and freezing the screen, but it'll do full damage on hit instead of reduced damage.

 

 

I'm pretty sure I talked about this a little bit somewhere before, but I feel like I should point it out again here.  It was probably already confirmed, but meh.  I feel like it's something people should know.  I'd also like more thorough testing of what happens with an attempted YRC of a physical attack that hits during those 6 frames.  Replays can display inputs and move 1 frame at a time right?