[CT] Hakumen vs V-13

[JackG]

V-13

Matchup Statistics

Japanese Ranking: [finput][/finput] yet

Personally: 3.5-6.5 (or something similarly awful)

Punishes:

Unfortunately this section is going to be pretty lacking, as most of what Nu does is 100% safe. However, here's a few things.

214d: This is Nu's charge up gunflame-of-swords move, and is one of her only moves that actually has a long startup. If you can see her start it, IAD in and net that beautiful counterhit j.c for land 5c combo.

66 Dash Cancel: Nu can special dash cancel all of her ground d moves and 6c, like 5dd and I think maybe 4dd. During her dash, she is invisible but still vulnerable to low attacks. Do a quick 2b and follow into 214b>236a if you get the hit while she's coming at you.

4b: This is Nu's ground overhead, which hits once mid and then again high. You can try to counter inbetween the 2 hits, but the move is unsafe enough to punish the recovery with a 5c or 623a~a if you're farther away.

236236d: not necessarily a punish, but if V-13 pressures this super against you, you can just jump and IB (tap back repeatedly: you won't airdash backwards since you are in guard stun.) This way you get lots of bar and since you're off the ground you can't be mixed up.

631246D: The large overhead drive sword super. Often used as a reversal super from knocked down V-13s who don't want to block on their wakeup. If blocked, you get a counterhit 5c into pretty much whatever you want, just make sure you block high!

Anti-airing:

She's probably never going to come in on you in a way that you can anti air, so you probably don't need to worry about this too much.

Zoning:

Obviously she will be zoning you the entire match, but fear not Hakumen brethren! If you gain that life advantage at any point in the match, back into the furthest corner away from V-13. Full screen all she can hit you with is the spinny wheel or the drive overhead (which has 30 startup frames, so you should be fine blocking.) If you keep across the screen, her drive moves won't get you and you force her to move in. From mid screen her mixup isn't that amazing, so feel validated turtling mid screen and IBing her swords so long as you have a health advantage. It's much easier to force her to come to you than vice-versa. Once she gets impatient and tries to rush you down, start throwing out moves like 623a~a and j.C to stuff her closer moves.

Their game plan:

Pressure midscreen drive swords at you, hoping to catch you off guard and get a sizeable combo with knockdown. If you roll midscreen, she will force another 3k damage down your throat with a 5d pickup if timed close to correct at all. She will anticipate you trying to get in, usually through the air, and will anti air you with her choice of 2d, 2c, and 6a. If you get close, she'll backdash. If she's getting close to the corner, she'll probably do a C or D move followed by her command dash cancel (66) and get to the other side for free. Occasionally she'll use this command dash for dash in throws or crossup mixups. if she cancels her drive moves into 66 SHE STILL HAS FRAME ADVTANGE, so don't poke!

Strategy:

The clock is your enemy, as in general I get to actually connect with V-13 in my range an average of maybe 2 or 3 times each match. That being said, the easiest way to lose this match is to get impatient and IAD j.C'ing to close the gap. V-13 can easily and reliably anti air you every time with a drive and juggle for an easy 3-4k damage. This matchup is especially tricky for H-man because his dash is a non jump cancellable ground hop, meaning he can't running jump + barrier as a means to get in. superjumping forward gives very little horizontal movement, but it's a lot better than doing an unsafe IAD and getting counterhit.

In general you'll want to advance by walking forward, or superjumping/double jumping forward. either way you're not getting very far, but you're making V-13 commit to either doing air pressure or ground pressure to keep you away. In my experience it's a lot easier to advance on the ground, because V-13 is going to be fearing IAD j.C counterhit if she's throwing out moves to beat ground movement. Most of the time even dash is unsafe to do midscreen due to her drives being exceptionally meaty and will usually pick you up for a full combo from that as well.

she will pretty much ALWAYS backdash when you get remotely close to her. You're movement sucks, and her backdash is the best in the game in terms of speed and distance. Push her towards a corner so she can't backdash anymore. Keep assuming she trying to find a way out, so look for her command dash (teleport) to get out or sj IAD.

If you get the health advantage, let her come to you. If you keep across the screen, her drive moves won't get you and you force her to move in. From mid screen her mixup isn't that amazing, so feel validated turtling mid screen and IBing her swords so long as you have a health advantage. It's much easier to force her to come to you than vice-versa.

If there's one good thing about this matchup, its' that most of V-13's attacks (most notably her multi hit sword super) hit lots of times. This is great for the H-man, as you can nonchalantly tap back during these high-hit pressure moves and get TONS of meter. Every time I see V-13 do the many sword super, I just jump and tap back. When you're in the air, you can't eat mixup so long as you're either IBing, Barriering, or both when she runs up, plus you get tons of bar. That being said, I spend a lot of matches sitting with full bar vying to find a way in. This is one matchup where I feel it's usually a good idea to throw a few stars for the sake of closing the gap, primarily through 623A (the semi-invincible dash.) If you've got the tension to spare, might as well use it to get in.

Instinctively you'll want to roll forward after V-13's knockdown combos. I can pretty much say that you should never do this unless she's in the air or close enough to you, as a 5D as you roll will easily pick you up for another big combos into knockdown. Additionally, if you get knocked down and V-13 does the multi hit super, you'll get hit for rolling as well. Best bet is to just neutral tech as soon as you can and patiently block it out. This is all spacing specific, but if V-13 knocks you down too close to her, you can catch her with a roll towards>special cancel (usually 214b or 623a~a) to avoid her 5d oki. You will of course have to play yourself and find what situations and spacings are safe to roll and which aren't.

best advice is just to play it safe and patiently. At least this is my take on the matchup.

Char specific details:

Her hitbox is very awkward, especially on the ground and doing moves like 2c. You may look like you're going to hit her if you're descending with a j.C (which you all know is huge) but will oftentimes miss and just pass through the wing part of her hitbox. I guess her wings don't really count for being part of her hitbox.

She only has 10000 life, so when you get in and score a hit blow the tension you've presumably saved up and make it hurt!

Links:

the following two videos show how the JP Haku-men handle V-13. Notice there's a lot of superjumping and blocking/IBing, with little approach. Every now and then they'll try to get in with a j.C and hope to catch the V-13 off guard.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7212604

Gorou vs. 0

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7212978

[zer0kage]

Not to toot my horn but the tags here do provide some points about this matchup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBTQHkV2Su0&feature=channel_page

A more recent one with some tags though it's actually more for my personal fixes. I know as a Hakumen player I need to capitalize better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwPeriBUkdE&feature=channel_page

To be honest some of the tactics in approaching her are picked out from Sanma's videos in Kohatsu.

I don't advise Timing out her which was my plan throughout the 2nd link. If you're up her face with a lead, stay there. Everything else is covered in Jack G's post.

Thanks for the detailed guide Jack G.

Here's a few questions about this that I have yet to test...

If she does her air downwards shot can you actually get a free hit with 623AA?

Parrying her sword will cause the next one to whiff... Do you think that actually creates a window to close the space?

If you have meter to spare do you think a 632146C against her slower projectiles is guaranteed?

[JackG]

Thanks for the videos Zero. I found those square hitboxes you added in were pretty useful on ways to approach Nu and close the gap.

I don't advise Timing out her which was my plan throughout the 2nd link. If you're up her face with a lead, stay there. Everything else is covered in Jack G's post.

Thanks for the detailed guide Jack G.

I guess I didn't phrase it exactly right. I don't 'intend' to time out V-13 when I play, but it just seems to happen a lot. Basically what I'm saying is try to get the health lead early, and then let her come to you. It's definitely a lot better stalling and letting her come to you/timing out versus you trying to finish the job hastily and eating 3500 damage combos for not being patient. Unfortunately it's hard to get that health lead early due to Hakumen's need to build up stars and because V-13 can backdash at the start of the round and start drive pressure 100% safely.

If she does her air downwards shot can you actually get a free hit with 623AA?

I haven't exactly tried it either, but 623a only give's upper body invulnerability. I think since most V-13s do the aerial drive stuff super close to the ground anyways, you'll still probably get hit. Then again, I'm not sure you even have a window of opportunity to do that if V is timing all of her ground drives into TK drive stuff decently well.

Parrying her sword will cause the next one to whiff... Do you think that actually creates a window to close the space?

That's in interesting question, what counter have you been using that causes the second one to whiff? 5d, 6d, and 2d are all completely invulnerable throughout the startup, execution, and recovery even on whiff. The total frames for each are 20, 24, and 32 respectively. That being said, if you can time a counter to completely avoid the second hit of drive (for example you counter 5d and cause the next 5d to whiff) Then I imagine you have ample time to IAD in before she can recover and anti air you.

If you have meter to spare do you think a 632146C against her slower projectiles is guaranteed?

I've tried it once or twice without much avail. The invul runs out on the super fairly quickly and it's pretty slow, especially full screen. To make matters worse if V-13 is full screen you'll be doing at best 1500 damage because Hakumen's super has a primary hit that does 4000 damage and a projectile hit that does 1500 depending on how far away they are.

[qwerty]

something i've tried with favorable results is replacing my j.C jump ins with j.B. j.B seems to have more vertical range (directly below hakumen) than j.C and it crosses up much easier as well. it doesn't have the damage or projectile munching properties of j.C, but it can net you some decent options if you counter hit. of course, the biggest reason i use j.B instead is because it's just a faster move. you (usually) don't get counter hit out of startup like you do with j.C.

[ckosra]

Gorou vs. 0

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7212978

[zer0kage]

I'm gonna look on more ways to get by Nu's sword strings. As someone who's been rolling around with that character there should be more ways to approach her rather than play the 5050 iad or 623A game to close in. Let's take a basic one like. 5DD 4DD <mixup with either 236D or jc j2DD> If you can IB the first 2 hits you can actually closed in for free with 623A. Infact if you IB at least the 2nd one 623A is already possible. Free hits with normals like 6C or 5C are guaranteed should Nu insist to press buttons that time lol. She can still block at least if she manages to react fast enough. Shippu still not guaranteed. 5DD jc j2DD Similar to the above but she is actually safer from most forms of punishment. However, Nu can counter it with 5DD backdash cancel 5DD For this string after you IB the first few hits you are still enforced to another guessing game with 5DD or 2/3DD. Nu players don't normally use this too much unless they do catch on to how you IB and use 623A. I'll look into more. Sometimes when you wanna take on against the stupid characters it's good to learn them abit to understand their mixup better. Hakumen can really become deadly once you can immediately see a pattern in your opponent's offense.

[ryokoalways]

What I want to see is Inoue playing a competent Hakumen. In my opinion, Inoue has by far the best nu thus far. This could give a bit more insight on the matchup (or just show how much shittier it can become >.>).

[kulabear]

For me all of the Nu's I've played do the same basic pattern. (drive combo into the low hitting projectile) So 9/10 times you know whats coming. I'll just jump into the air, barrier block the first hit. Wait for the combo to start to die down then air dash in with B or C. Then then hurt begins. I actually have a replay online with Nu that I won. Oh yea there's a nice "lolwhat?" moment in the second round.

[Angrynord]

I know Nu has some heavy delay on some of her projectiles...I wonder if 236236D might be effective for closing the gap. It's sad that if it shows efficacy that it burns half a meter, though at this point I'm perfectly willing to blow meter to get a hand on Nu. Thoughts? Note: I am aware that the counter super doesn't work the same way when it counters projectiles, that's why I'm wondering.

[kulabear]

I know Nu has some heavy delay on some of her projectiles...I wonder if 236236D might be effective for closing the gap. It's sad that if it shows efficacy that it burns half a meter, though at this point I'm perfectly willing to blow meter to get a hand on Nu. Thoughts?

Note: I am aware that the counter super doesn't work the same way when it counters projectiles, that's why I'm wondering.

I think it might depend on the projectile Nu uses. If its a drive attack I'm sure it could work. But I don't think it would counter any of her other projectiles since they hit low. I think watching for the 4D high sword would be better, after you see that 236a > 623a. It could theoretically work and burn less magatama.

[ryokoalways]

If it's a normal sword summoner, nu has enough time to super jump in the air to dodge yukikaze (super flash will provide the player with more than enough time to react). Which is why you really should use that super against melee, and only if it's a kill shot because you'd do more damage if you use a regular D catch and combo off it.

[DonPatch]

the counter super is actually incredibly useful against nu. it's unblockable, crosses the entire screen, and can counter almost anything she throws at you. not to mention a staple of her long range mixup is the 4D sword which is easy to counter on reaction. if you can sit back and guard long enough to get those 4 stars, you have a fairly easy way in. plus it has a huge hitbox, so even if they try to get out of it there's not much chance they'll be able to. I whore this when fighting nu's

[Kumlekar]

Are there any videos of the super counter being used for this purpose?

[ryokoalways]

No because it's useless against nu. Yukikaze can be dodged with one super jump. And even if they screw the timing up, they still have a second jump to work with. It's a waste of 4 magatamas. And for the love of god do not play passive against nu. Play cautious, but go ape-shit the moment you can get in her face.

[Kumlekar]

Anyone else love how Haku shouts "Crap!" whenever he gets hit with an overhead in this fight?

[DonPatch]

No because it's useless against nu. Yukikaze can be dodged with one super jump. And even if they screw the timing up, they still have a second jump to work with. It's a waste of 4 magatamas.

And for the love of god do not play passive against nu. Play cautious, but go ape-shit the moment you can get in her face.

ah, but you see even if they jump over it, the move is completely invincible and gets you right in on her. one of the only things that makes this fight overly difficult is how hard it is to get close to her, and this does the job perfectly. I would hardly consider this move useless in this fight, especially considering how easy it is to get stars against nu if you're good at IBing and know how to play defensively.

[Spark]

Actually the super counter isn't completely invincible if they time their super jump right they can land right next to you and punish. Even if they don't try to punish you for it they can still just super jump and air dash to the other side of the screen.

[Kumlekar]

I still call for video proof from either side.

[DonPatch]

you're right, I think it has 12 frames of vulnerablility at the end? something like that. it won't work in all situations I'm sure, otherwise the matchup would probably be even, if not in hakumen's favor, but I still wouldn't be so quick to call it useless. most likely the people I do this to have probably never even seen hakumen before, but even the people that know to jump over it don't seem to be able to punish very well before I recover. at the very least it's a nice way to remind nu that she can't just stand back and spam swords until you die. even putting that little bit of fear into her can possibly open up a new route to win with. I personally feel this option is worth playing around with, considering he doesn't exactly have much else going for him in this matchup

[qwerty]

i don't know, i seem to have a decent time waiting out nu's pressure (her midscreen mixup game really isn't all that good, and most nu's just do 5DD 4D 236D for pressure anyways) and finding my opening. of course, it is still hard as fuck to actually win, because you can't make any mistakes, but it's doable. my hardest time against nu is wakeup, actually. if i tech forwards, i get whacked by the forward mawaru- if i tech backwards, i get whacked by the backward mawaru. any time i wake up i hope she acts stupid and does gunflame instead, since that's actually punishable depending on the distance she's at.

[reaVer]

i don't know, i seem to have a decent time waiting out nu's pressure (her midscreen mixup game really isn't all that good, and most nu's just do 5DD 4D 236D for pressure anyways) and finding my opening. of course, it is still hard as fuck to actually win, because you can't make any mistakes, but it's doable.

my hardest time against nu is wakeup, actually. if i tech forwards, i get whacked by the forward mawaru- if i tech backwards, i get whacked by the backward mawaru. any time i wake up i hope she acts stupid and does gunflame instead, since that's actually punishable depending on the distance she's at.

Just keep down if she wants to play that mixup, tech after you see the thing getting close to you. You should roll through those mawarus that way.

[qwerty]

but teching through a backwards mawaru at just the right moment when you're in the corner is a bit easier said than done. :\ plus then if i tech through the mawaru she has a chance of landing 4D on me which is even worse.

[reaVer]

she can't specifically hit you if you move in the right direction. There's a range where 4D works, you're supposed to roll outside that area. You can also eat the mawaru and forward tech into her face.

[Fendir]

How do you guys handle the gravitation field thingy? Hakumen is slow as it is, but when V-13 decides to use gravity field it's like time has stopped, I really can't seem to work out any good ways of getting out of it.

[reaVer]

use 236A and 623A at the right timings, wait for this field to nearly disappear before you attempt anything.