[Xrd] Ramlethal - Oki Thread *WIP* (Updated 01/20/2015)

[Killey]

It might whiff on Bedman and Elphelt. Some characters might need a delayed 2h cancel from 2d or else it will whiff on them too.

 

Yeah, I haven't fully tested on the cast yet. I know it whiffs on Faust as well and you'll have to do a delayed 2HS or do a j.2HS to time a perfect meaty. I'll be updating that post once I finish testing on the entire cast.

[Complexity]

Yeah, I haven't fully tested on the cast yet. I know it whiffs on Faust as well and you'll have to do a delayed 2HS or do a j.2HS to time a perfect meaty. I'll be updating that post once I finish testing on the entire cast.

 

Well it isn't all too bad that the sword can whiff. It can set up some very cheesy command throw setups if the opponent doesn't know that the sword will simply pass through his character's sprite without putting him in blockstun.

[Putin]

You also need to delay it on Leo, it's the only character I play "regularly" which 2D > instant 2H whiffs on

 

This happens because he wakes up a few frames later than most of the cast, I wonder if any characters wake up EARLIER than most of the roster which would potentially make 2H meaty impossible. Doubt it though

 

edit

lol just realized that the wakeup frames table is only a few posts up, I remember seeing it some time ago but was to lazy to look for it again

[Complexity]

My initial tests on the 2d > instant 2h were that it would whiff on Millia, Venom, Faust, Leo, Chipp, May and Ramlethal herself, while completely whiffing on Bedman and Elphelt even if delayed. However, the combo involved was a much shorter combo that would lead to the opponent landing slower from the 2d (characters fall faster the longer the combo), and in turn would lead to the instant 2h being too fast on characters like Millia, resulting in a whiff.

 

With longer combos, the wakeup timing pretty much shifts downwards for every character because they land faster and recover faster. I wouldn't be surprised if there are characters who can mash their fastest move out to hit Ramlethal and deactivate the swords.

[Killey]

The wake up frames chart is just for face down timing and doesn't account for face up timing. If you check the dustloop wiki you can get the wake up frames on the entire cast for face up knockdowns. The meaty 2HS set ups I posted after a j.8D knockdown is for face up timing so I've proven off of certain set ups there's no wake up timing that prevents you from getting a meaty set up. However, Slayer will always be able to back dash cancel on wake up to avoid or mitigate sword oki.

 

My initial tests on the 2d > instant 2h were that it would whiff on Millia, Venom, Faust, Leo, Chipp, May and Ramlethal herself, while completely whiffing on Bedman and Elphelt even if delayed. However, the combo involved was a much shorter combo that would lead to the opponent landing slower from the 2d (characters fall faster the longer the combo), and in turn would lead to the instant 2h being too fast on characters like Millia, resulting in a whiff.

 

With longer combos, the wakeup timing pretty much shifts downwards for every character because they land faster and recover faster. I wouldn't be surprised if there are characters who can mash their fastest move out to hit Ramlethal and deactivate the swords.

 

Yeah, you need a longer combo for the set up to work on characters like Millia. The combo starters I'm using are either the standard PK, KPP, PPP or (PK) c.S, j.8D, IAD j.K, j.S, j.8D, PPP. I'm basically looking for around 15 hits for the 2D, 2HS setup. I was actually playing around with PK, PK, PPK on Faust and I might be onto something with this but need to do more testing when I get home from work today.

 

After figuring out meaty sword setups from Dei's corner deployed sword combos I wanted to figure one out when I had swords equipped or after a long corner combo. The meaty set up I figured out after Dei's corner combo only works if the starter is short but if you do a corner carry combo or a corner IAD combo you can't get the j.8D knockdown and the oki options after wards are different. I usually end up doing a 2D knockdown into a 2PPK YRC mix up but if I don't have 25% meter I find that my oki options after wards were limited and people's tendencies in that situation is to hold up back allowing them to block the first sword rather high up. I wanted a set up that stops people from holding up back on wake up and mitigating the mix up.

 

If anyone has played around with the meaty sword set ups off of j.8D you'll notice that if anyone tries to up back on wake up they'll get hit during their pre-jump frames. They can't up back FD or sj FD either since 1f jumps don't exist in this version. They will always get hit before they can actually jump. So unless they have a fast enough invulnerable back dash they ain't escaping that first sword without considerable risk.

[Killey]

When going through the general discussion I noticed that some of the safe jump setups weren't listed.

 

Add the following to Midscreen 2KK Ender:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsSoFZIpsns

 

Setup: 2KK > j.6HS > j.K

Swords: HS sword equipped.

Info: You perform a normal jump and do j.6S at the peak then time a deep j.K as your falling for the safe jump.

Reversal Safe: Yes vs Sol.

 

Add the following to Corner Throw Ender:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMajMt9a5dQ

 

Setup: Throw > j.2HS > j.K

Swords: HS sword deployed in the corner.

Info: After the throw perform a  jump and do j.2HS at the peak of the jump then time a deep j.K as your falling for the safe jump.

Reversal Safe: Yes vs Sol.

 

Add the following to Corner 5K4K Ender:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uquOQBp77b8

 

Setup: 5K4K > dash 9j.6S > j.K

Swords: S sword equipped.

Info: 4K knockdown pulls the oppponent out from the corner slightly allowing for this cross up set up. The j.6S after the dash forward jump needs to be at the peak of the jump. Then time a deep j.K as your falling for the safe jump.

Reversal Safe: Yes vs Sol.

[XuxuBelezA]

Theres a setup I saw a japanese player attempt (I think, bc he kinda failed)

 

Setup from 2KK ender. Both swords equipped.

 

Grounded 6S, dash jump 6H changing sides, air backdash and jH xx 214K

 

Double crossup into an overhead, the first crossup should be easy to block but if they happen to get hit by it you can just land and confirm 5S and dauro instead of commiting to 214K. Or you can just bet on the second crossup hitting, 5S->dauro is just a lot easier to combo into and gives you more dmg potential.

 

Here's the ghetto cellphone capture puush http://puu.sh/gSCZ4/f08cd7baa5.mp4

 

Loses free to airthrow, but the opponent has to know, I've hit some ppl but still unsure of how effective it actually is, gives you swag points but its definitely gimmicky and shouldnt be abused.

[Killey]

Haha...that looks really cool but there's a pretty gap for the opponent to do something. Definitely doesn't look reversal safe but it does require them to correct their reversal input. Even if they don't go for the air grab they can definitely up back or super jump out. If only you could get the 6S to hit a bit more meaty it would be better. I wonder if you could YRC the j.6HS to screw up their escape option timings to make the mix up tighter.

[XuxuBelezA]

those things could work too, but I just really like it for the looks

 

you can get meaty 6S if you cancel from 2D, but that doesnt really happen a lot midscreen, I've actually been thinking in trying to use 2Dxx6S in midscreen pressure and go for oki setups in case 2D happens to hit, mostly bc I've grown tired of 2DxxDauro every time

[jak d ripr]

 

When going through the general discussion I noticed that some of the safe jump setups weren't listed.

 

Add the following to Midscreen 2KK Ender:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsSoFZIpsns

 

Setup: 2KK > j.6HS > j.K

Swords: HS sword equipped.

Info: You perform a normal jump and do j.6S at the peak then time a deep j.K as your falling for the safe jump.

Reversal Safe: Yes vs Sol.

 

So I'm curious for this set-up, in the video you had your S sword equipped, does the set-up change if the sword isn't equipped? Like should I got for 2.S instead of just raw S deploy? Also, is there a general rule for these set-ups in regards to whether or not you have the sword equipped?

 

Finally, the main post doesn't have anything listed for setups after a mid-screen PPP ender. Does this just mean there aren't any at all? Or did the OP just forget to post the one's that exist? At the moment I do a HS sword set, but it doesn't seem to hold them down to let me really do anything else.

[zaeris]

You need sword equip because it has the less amount recovery for any 2kk meaty set up.

[Killey]

So I'm curious for this set-up, in the video you had your S sword equipped, does the set-up change if the sword isn't equipped? Like should I got for 2.S instead of just raw S deploy? Also, is there a general rule for these set-ups in regards to whether or not you have the sword equipped?

 

Finally, the main post doesn't have anything listed for setups after a mid-screen PPP ender. Does this just mean there aren't any at all? Or did the OP just forget to post the one's that exist? At the moment I do a HS sword set, but it doesn't seem to hold them down to let me really do anything else.

 

All of the setups posted in the opening and by me tells you which swords need to be equipped or deployed. In the one you quoted only the HS swords needs to be equipped. As for PPP set ups from midscreen there's no real tight mix up you can go for. 

[muerto]

 

So Pain posted a video containing a lot of neat stuff awhile ago:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlGN7aJC2ts

 

 

I didn't even know 5KK gave knockdown. Thanks to Pain for posting this and to Daiji our lord and savior.

Was practicing these ones and noticed that the meaty 6h whiffs on chipp and sin, this is because of their latter wakeup timings (30f according to the wiki) you can fix this by delaying the 6h a tiny bit (teorically around 2 frames) just a tiny thing i though should be noted.

 

[Nyaa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HicXleE_bp8

 

You can do a fuzzy after 2KK, combos midscreen and of course in corner.

[Scrubplayer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HicXleE_bp8

 

You can do a fuzzy after 2KK, combos midscreen and of course in corner.

Work on everyone? This seems pretty cool. Much fresher than doing run up 6K at least lol.

[zaeris]

You need to add cavet that it is character specific where jk jc jk works on few standing characters and works on people with good reaction that can switch block early.

[Nyaa]

Few? Works on all but Faust, May and Ky. Uncertain about Sin/Elph/Leo (Don't have them)

[Nyaa]

Yo, backdash YRC jK is safe from DP's if used as an oki option, and against Sol it evades his DP entirely so no RRC for him.

[Complexity]

I know backdash YRC and j.k dj.k fuzzies are legit mixups but are they practical though? The timings to get them seem really tight. Never seen a match where a player tried to go for them and succeed either.

[Nyaa]

I play a lot online and I consistently get out backdash yrc jK but online fuzzies are pretty hard. I still go for them now and then because I gotta do it to master it. It's just timing. Backdash yrc jK is really easy to practice as well.

 

If I could guess I would say I have around 80% successrate (either overhead hits and I get combo or opponent DP's blocked) with backdash YRC so it's very practical. It just sucks that doing the YRC prorates the combo.

[Putin]

After which setups do you use backdash YRC mixup?

I realized I'd completely forgotten about that option until a couple of days ago, I'm thinking that it should be great for those times when they somehow block all of your mixups and you have no other choice but to start pressure. You can confirm off j.K normally, but you have to autopilot into Dauro if the opponent knows the mixup and you 2D instead

[Nyaa]

If you end a combo with 5K4K you have enough time to do j2S land backdash YRC jK. Hits meaty, hold crouchblock after jK for it to be safe from DP. Well at least on Sol with his wakeup time.

[zaeris]

I assume you need s sword in close position

[Complexity]

It seems pretty difficult to do backdash YRC outside of setups because of how close you have to be to the opponent and the fact that he must not be in any form of blockstun or hitstun. I don't see a situation how you can get the backdash YRC off without the risk of getting thrown.

[Nyaa]

It's pretty easy to combo into 5K4K from either a equipped or deployed combo so yeah S-sword must be out. I only use it in a setup, and mostely after 5K4K because it puts you exactly in front of your opponent regardless of prior hits in the combo.

 

https://d.maxfile.ro/clcqrhhapu.mp4Made a short video. If the timing is correct you're already airborne when they wake up.