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DaiAndOh

[Xrd] Venom Formations and Ball Setups Thread

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The setup will be a lot stronger if the loctest PQV buff stays in, why it randomly has shit range compared to every other QV I don't know but it limits the number of situations to set it up off of. Rather annoying. 

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How does it do against backdash busters?

Good question! I tested backdash and the second hit of 2D hits during its recovery 100% of the time, so he can't potemkin buster. It'd be really difficult to confirm on reaction though since the carcass raid charge will likely be wasted. I found an option select to handle it with some labbing; 2D > S Carcass Raid ~ 214X. If the first hit of 2D connects then Carcass Raid happens and 214X input does nothing. If the second hit connects then the Carcass Raid input does nothing and 214X happens, so you can get oki again. Interesting. 

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I am aware of the qvp from a while and I prolong it with 1 cycle of the jk s hs dust. Though never knew that isamu uses it. Neat stuff anyways keep at it eshi.

Also , a setup I use aside from the midscreen telepott , I think it is interesting:

Midscreen knickdown. P ball hs ball, dash in jump quick has into air dash. Not an anti reversal but balls are in escapable and connect air dash combo on hit..

Other stuff willmention later.

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There's a setup that hasn't been discussed much (at least in this thread) that I've been getting solid milage out of lately - double P ball oki.

I first saw Fino do it but Blacksnake gets work out of it as well. Basically, any knockdown into P set, dash up 5P BH into another P ball set, then you can either dash up 5P the second ball and go jc to a high TK MS or low (fake out with whiff MS to catch people trying to react) 2K or use the threat of the second ball to run up and high/low/throw. A few reasons I've been forcing myself to implement it into my oki;

-it's so easy to do even netplay can't botch it. Works pretty consistently midscreen from both 2D and 6H and is damn near impossible to mess up in the corner.

-with the changes to Blitz in 1.1 this setup is one that can and will bait the opponent into wasting meter and still trap them in a lockdown scenario

-it leaves you safe from most reversals and DAs. The only things that seem to be able to escape and actually reach Venom are instant low profiles like GV or maybe STBT.

Thoughts? Maybe I'm overhyping something that everyone else alread knows about and uses extensively.

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I doesn't really need much discussion, but it should be noted for simplicity and effectiveness.

I'm not sure how much it works midscreen though, I always see it in the corner though.

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It's not airtight midscreen but it seems to still work against 90% of people.

"He set a ball, hit it, then SET ANOTHER ONE?! What do I do? WHAT DO I DO?!"

*gets hit by the fifth TK mad struggle that round*

Single P ball is still great for its simplicity midscreen though. Both single and double have become my go to options when I don't feel confident in executing a better setup due to lag, nerves, etc. Not the best, but it's better than nothing.

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I don't recall needing to compensate for wakeup time with single or double P ball oki, but now I'm curious. I'll definitely put some in some time testing in training mode when I get a chance.

Expect yet another obscenely long write up on something that doesn't warrant so much detail real soon!

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I don't recall needing to compensate for wakeup time with single or double P ball oki, but now I'm curious. I'll definitely put some in some time testing in training mode when I get a chance.

Expect yet another obscenely long write up on something that doesn't warrant so much detail real soon!

I love those.  I still feel like I have no clue what to do in a match with this character.

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I don't recall needing to compensate for wakeup time with single or double P ball oki, but now I'm curious. I'll definitely put some in some time testing in training mode when I get a chance.

Expect yet another obscenely long write up on something that doesn't warrant so much detail real soon!

 

In the corner, not really. But midscreen after a combo in ending in 6HS, I'm really doubting it's solid unless they late wake up, if at all.

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I somehow missed the corner oki setup of H QV > S set. The positioning allows you to jump back jS to force blocking while avoiding DPs, then you can airdash forward and do jK > jS (jS hits H ball very late) or airdash jS (whiffs while hitting H ball immediately) > land > low attack. 

 

My next video will probably be on something more basic, like midscreen K ball oki and what situations to hit the ball with jK vs. with jS. It depends on positioning & height of the knockdown; if you pick the wrong one then the ball will either miss or not hit meaty so they can jump out.

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@Eshi

Damn, I was gonna do that with a livestream after I got my PS4 stick. :/ Ah well, we'll all be better off with your cleanly edited and easy to understand vids than me stammering over a bad mic with my crappy execution.

 

@DaiAndOh

You're probably right, but I'll still try to find some use for it. That situation is probably better suited for S>P set dash up 5K etc anyway. 

 

@Kumlekar

I'm flattered, but if you're having trouble figuring out what to do with Venom in general then Dai is an infinitely better resource. He is "da neutral god" after all.

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From a 2D Knockdown:

Summon H,Summon P  YRC IAD crossup j.S (Ball Hit) teleport j.s (ball hit) 

 

I like this cause its ambiguous and looks cool lol but probably not safe against some DPs that have a huge vertical hitbox (like Ky's ) \

Can be done tight enough such that if they try to jump on the first frame they have to block the j.s in the air 

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c.S(3) > HQV > j.H > air P set > j.D(BH) |> dash j.H (BH)|>c.S(3) > IAD JSHD > 6H > set = 182DMG on Slayer, universal. This is strict. You want to delay the initial j.D, it should look like you're around half way down on your descent, as you land immediately dash j.H to hit the opponent first and the ball should follow shortly after. If done correctly everything from the j.D onwards should count as a combo as well as putting venom behind the opponent.

To note, if you have your back to the wall doing this you can rep sqv > 5p > j.SHD if its applicable for 200dmg, this is the version I saw 310 use. On heavier characters like Pot this leads to around 180ish midscreen and it's easy to convert off of if you happen to drop it. On the females and smaller hurtboxes the j.H probably won't hit them but the ball will as usual to carry on the combo. Oh and one last note, this is also applicable from 2k > c.S you will just need to be aware that you have to hit the j.H after HQV a little later.

 

c.S(3) > SQV > j.H > air H set > j.D(BH) |> dash j.K(BH)SH |> c.S(3) > IAD JSHD > 6H > set = 186DMG on Zato. This combo is awfully character specific and so far it seems to only work on Zato, Ky, Potemkin & Bedman. Delay the j.D as much as possible then delay the hits between j.KSH. On characters this doesn't work on which seems to be the vast majority of the cast it's just a glorified j.K oki setup. It's hard to do and not very consistent for me. 

 

edit: cleaned up my awful post.Apologies. 

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So wait. Set the ball in the air, then on your way down, j.D? I'm confused what the l is before the j.D in both of these. landing? Do you set ball, land, jump, do a falling j.D and jump again?

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Yeah my mistake I wrote both of them at 8am and didn't proof. To clarify you air set, j.D on the way down, land and then rejump. I've corrected the post. 

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Are you sure that first combo is universal? I can't get the jH after QV to connect on Venom.

EDIT: Just read the ending bit on smaller hurtboxes. My bad.

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Gonna consolidate all of the 1.1 setups I have written down in various places for my own sake, and if I miss any you guys will contribute too. I'll provide links as I dig them up.

 

Traditional K ball expanded:

So because straight up K ball oki is vulnerable to new blitz, we need to compensate. What I've been seing a lot is jumping in without the ball, then the airdash vs low mixup is used to CH reversal Blitz attempts.

 

Basically, do K ball oki, but if you think they'll blitz, don't hit the ball. Note that going in raw like that opens us up to the 6P+H AA/Throw OS. It'll still be a good option, but by no means the swiss army knife setup it used to be.

 

Alternative:

jP BH moves slower and will CH high blitz and leave you safe from low blitz. Should cover you from the 6P+H OS as well, but is open to escape via nearly every movement option.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQnjiZLZV9Q&t=20m57s

 

The same empty jump principle can be applied to H ball safejump as well, where you have the canned setup that's vulnerable to blitz, but delay airdash chain blows it up.

 

Corner pressure thing:

Not so much a "force a 50/50" deal as much as just keep em blocking.

stuff xx H QV, S set, 2P (H BH), P set, 2S (P BH) xx Teleport to leftover ball.

 

Can kind of force a mixup after the teleport with jS xx MS vs jS land 2K

 

The new go to corner oki:

knockdown xx P set, S CR (P BH), 5P (Charged CR BH), dash in 2S and do whatever.

 

Baits DAs and DPs, safe from Blitz, cranks guard bar, and it's pretty much airtight. Is there anything this setup can't do?

 

Basic idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD-07KO9KP8&t=21m42s

Baiting DA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD-07KO9KP8&t=18m23s

Expanded blockstring example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQnjiZLZV9Q&t=6m57s

Pseudo 50/50 option with jump in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQnjiZLZV9Q&t=7m50s

 

Sample pressure in 1.0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ9HCxUFeDc

 

Monsta Chip feat. Dark Angel:

midscreen stuff > 2D[1] xx P set, Dark Angel, charge HS Stinger (lvl 2-3 it appears? P BH), immideate HS Stinger (charged Stinger BH), teleport jD (stinger BH).

 

A grip of chip, plus enough time to dash up and do whatever you want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD-07KO9KP8&t=21m30s

 

Monsta Chip 2 feat. da BRO:

corner knockdown xx 1-2 ball sets**,  BRO, S CR (BRO BH), (2S xx P set) x N

https://twitter.com/EshiATL/status/580488246821593089

 

Note that if it hits at any point, replace 2S xx P set with 2S xx S stinger to combo.

https://twitter.com/Skeletal_Minion/status/595990678208937984

 

Alternate variant that leaves 2 charged balls as an AA option

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQnjiZLZV9Q&t=16m50s

 

Alternate variant 2 that uses H set > teleport as a mixup tool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQnjiZLZV9Q&t=21m37s

 

**POST 1.1 TESTING: needs 2 balls or more. 0-1 ball BRO sends it at a strange angle

 

BRO frametrap combo:

during corner block pressure, clS xx BRO, *(2P (BRO BH) xx S CR) x 3, 2P > 5D > side dust combo

*they hit a button or try to jump out here and get hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQnjiZLZV9Q&t=2m50s

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The new go to corner oki:

knockdown xx P set, S CR (P BH), 5P (Charged CR BH), dash in and do whatever.

 

 

the charged ball seems to go right over a few hitboxes unless you force them into block with a 2s after you 5p the ball.

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Yeah, after messing with it I'm beginning to realize that followign up with 2S is mandatory for a good chunk of the cast. Might even always whiff on Faust? Not sure. Too tired to test. I'll edit that post accordingly though.

EDIT: It won't whiff of Faust if you make him block.

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