[Xrd] Venom Formations and Ball Setups Thread

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

Time to take stock of what setups are still usable around charge blitz. I put a few up on Twitter that I'll write up later when I'm not on mobile. What do you guys got?

[DaiAndOh]

So empty low while doing HS ball safe jump is better in my experience because low blitz is worse, and almost no one in my experience will attempt to guess low blitz anymore, especially with the ball hovering on their body. Once it's expected/conditioned, you can continue to go into the regular safejump when they do have meter or airdash forward.

One thing I want to test if ya'll haven't is the viability of one of my personal go to setups, S>P dash K BH. Mainly if Venom can run over and stop the charge with a low before they get to "all reject" state or throw them.

[BadoorSNK]

Hey, so maybe I didn't notice but I don't think I've seen enough Venom players use a running super jump to augment some of Venom's midscreen setups. I made a video showing how a running super jump J.S can help improve Venom's midscreen K-Ball oki after a 6H knockdown. It also makes it Blitz safe, and Volcanic Viper safe (but not safe from other invincible reversals like Leo's or Ky's)

 

Let me know what you guys think. I mean for all I know, this could be very old news.

[DaiAndOh]

So it looks like it only works off of 6HS, as a 2D would put Venom too far? Also I assume you can FD on the way down to be safe vs other reversals?

[BadoorSNK]

7 hours ago, DaiAndOh said:

So it looks like it only works off of 6HS, as a 2D would put Venom too far? Also I assume you can FD on the way down to be safe vs other reversals?

Yeah, it works best from a 6HS. 2D doesn't usually push them far enough for the running super jump to land RIGHT behind them. The jump would just overshoot them instead. Not to mention, I think because of the shorter distance, you are forced to wait a bit more before you can do the running Super Jump J.S so it would meaty them, and that will leave a gap for them to anti-air you after they block the ball, when you are coming down. But the overshooting issue is the main reason I don't use it after a 2D.

As for Air FD to block reversals, you can do that with some of the slower reversals, but not always. Some reversals can hit Venom out of the recovery of his J.S. I recall that Leo's H Flashkick can be FD's, but his S Flashkick (which is honestly rarely used, due to its partial invincibility) can hit Venom. Honestly I haven't done enough testing with the air FD against reversals.

 

[DaiAndOh]

So why not j.K in this case instead? Doesn't hit the ball properly+positioning with the super jump?

[BadoorSNK]

12 hours ago, DaiAndOh said:

So why not j.K in this case instead? Doesn't hit the ball properly+positioning with the super jump?

Yeah, the j.K won't hit the ball. standing forward jumps, running jumps, and standing forward super jump j.K will hit the K-ball after it is summoned, but a running super jump won't (maybe I can't do the running super jump motion quickly enough but I doubt it). The j.K hit box isn't deep right under Venom. It's only deep a bit infront with his legs so they'll whiff (unless maybe if Venom takes a step back but of course you won't be able to do it fast enough for it to meaty).

[BadoorSNK]

So an update on the setup:

- J.K can hit the ball but it's very hard to do the running super jump so early. And even then, you'll probably land in-front, so it kinda lessens the effectiveness of the setup

- it turns out that you CAN Air FD Vapor Thrust and Leo's Flashkick. Actually with Leo, his H Version WHIFFS. So this is very good news. Haven't tried against Chipp but I imagine similar results. 

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

Badoor, I could kiss you right now. That setup has been my white whale for so long. A pseudo-safejump off any 6H knockdown, works on the whole cast (with variable dash timing), and I get a hell of a mixup? Yes pls.

Also messed with it in the Revelator demo. The setup is viable in the corner (IE off clS bnb > 6H xx SQV 6P[BH] 6H long range knockdown), albeit losing its potency as a DP bait. Also it can still mess up Revelator charge blitz. Midscreen throw is a better option to call out charge blitz, while in the corner going low nets a full launch.

[BadoorSNK]

@snowmonkeyfunky Heh, thanks. Glad you like it. I do like this setup a lot. I initially refrained from using it since I couldn't dependably do the running super jump S without getting a mad struggle instead, but once I got that execution down it's been a real boon to my game. 

And thanks for the additional notes on it. I never thought about using it in the corner but I will try it out.