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MisguidedMaster

Sin vs Elphelt what do??

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I am personally struggling my life away with the the match up against Elphelt. It seems like she can confirm off of anything into a full combo and I'm finding it very hard to get in, especially against a keep away Elphelt.

Anyone got any tips that could make this a little easier?

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Everyone can confirm everything into a combo so that's not really anything special. You outrange her on everything and 2S goes under her 5H so you wanna play the range game and keep her stubby normals out.

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6p beats her 5s, bridal express (spaced well), and 5h. 

Elk hunt destroys 5h 

Pinberry is the real problem and if you have to block it, you should IB it and peace out. You never want to be where she wants you to be.

Shotgun stance is the real problem and if she has you in the corner, you may want to make a diagnostic on your resources because all your defensive options are about to be tested.

FDing is bad because the pushback isn't substantial, you lose wayyyyy too much meter every time you block a shotgun blast and she will still be in your face but now you have no meter.

IBing is good to gain meter but you are going to get chipped.

If the Elphelt player is being predictable, I usually block until she is out of range for a blast and I Blitz Shield when they attempt to S their way back into position. 

DA is a best option that works very well against being locked up in the corner. 

When they start baiting the DA, you then FD jump out to avoid getting hit by S trying to leave the pressure. 

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Does anyone have anything updated on Elphelt? She seems just as oppressive as 1.0, and it seems like any button I press I just lose. 

 

Edit: Also no one seems to play her Also combos don't wokr on her. Also I'm really on tilt.

Edit Edit: Seriously, Millia's a piece of shit, and I'd rather play her. At least she makes sense.

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Elphelt is actually a pretty good match-up for Sin tbh.

 

What are you struggling with exactly?

 

You win neutral game from midscreen and 3/4 screen. When you're close she has better nomals, but that's only if she's pressuring your or start of the round.

Her life goes down really fast and she doesn't have many wake-up options so you can really bully her on knockdown.

 

Vs shotgun stance:

-Learn to mix up IB, FD, and backdashes when you're blocking 

-OS 2P flicker FD to blow up her rolls midscreen if they like doing that.

-Don't get hit in the corner

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To be fair, max range driver CH is finicky on El because 
 

1. if she's holding a grenade, it saves her
2. At a lot of distances the jump followup is finicky as fuck

I'd like to add that El actually has more health than  you do, but shadow is right about her defense is only meh. Her backdash is goofy as fuck but whatever

Also, to add:
Vs shotgun stance

-Don't worry TOO much if you get hit no char in this game can fucking handle shotgun stance. Try to avoid the situation.

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It seems like her pokes just straight up beat all of sins normals at any range, and she can safely approach with the grenade. It seemed to me that the neutral was veryy similar to millia where any whiffed normal even at full screen means she gets to be right up in your face. And yeah she's got a weird hitbox and seems to be floatier. Standard bnbs seemed to hit fine but any conversions off of awkward hits in the air were more unreliable than other characters.

I played the dude a bit more after posting and I'm starting to get the matchup. You gotta be a lot more aggressive than other matchups because if you try to sit back and play a spacing/poking game she has so many ways to get in that you just can't cover them all and you're one mistake away from her getting in and controlling the match fit the rest of the game. Of course she has plenty of ways to stop your advance, but your chances of coming out on top in the long run are higher than zero. Also, she seems to win all trades just to make you a bit more mad when there's lag. But like everyone said, her defensive options go to shit once she's blocking, and you're kind of free to go ham once she's blocking.

Lastly, Shotgun stance is dumb. Why doesn't she have any knockback? Why is there so much chip? Why does she get an unblockable in addition to having no knockback? Why is she allowed to block? Leo isn't allowed to block in his insane stance, why does el get a pass?

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Ok so your last point, on shotgun stance:

As I've said in every post before this, shotgun stance is probably her single goofiest tool and is full of bullshit.

Everything else, from the top:

Any range normals getting beat: Improve your footsies.
Any whiffed normal even at full screen being their turn: Improve your footsies. In other news, even Millia cannot confirm a turn off fullscreen whiff without reasonable commitment.
Hitbox: SHe's a light-class char. Most stuff should work just fine though. 

Neutral: I don't know about having to be more aggressive than usual, but you should be actively exercising  your range over her and not letting her set up, for sure. All chars can stop sin advance, but elphelt, besides having above average buttons doesn't have anything too crazy. Winning trades: I don't know what you're trading with where she's winning cleanly. If you trade point blank, you're in neutral in point blank, and as stated, her buttons are better up close, so take some caution.
Lag: Lag is shit, fuck netplay anyways

So honestly, I think this is less of a matchup problem. This matchup is a fairly vanilla Sin matchup. You have superior range and power, and you use it to bully Elphelt and kill her before she can lock you down in the corner and rip your soul in half

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Again in shotgun stance be careful of just holding block and waiting for a spot because its not going to happen. You have to mix up your defensive options a bit if you want to not just get wrecked.

FD to push her out and use that to either get away or just get some space for buttons or to force her to come in. 

Instant block to create bigger gaps in her pressure so you can hit a button, Blitz, or DP her.

Backdash if theres a big enough gap or you instant blocked. THis will cause her to whiff and leave you with several options afterwards.

Her command grab in Shotgun stance is really slow so you have a lot of time to get away.

 

Remember her Bridal express can be thrown if done too close or IB into a punish. If its too far you can commit to a DP to beat out her inevitable 2P. Against air bridal express use 6P at better angles, face her in the air, or even DP (riskier obviously)

If you're forced to block Bridal express at safe distances you just lost all your pressure and she's going to take her turn. Thats when you start using DP, backdash, FD, blocking, etc to try and keep her from always just pressuring you into death.

 

Her S buttons and up close buttons definitely will beat yours, but you just have to pick better ranges and spots. Her neutral is definitely a lot stronger and scarier than Millias, but blocking her is a lot easier too.

Honestly the only struggle with confirming against her is CH BD from full screen can be finicky at times.

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Again in shotgun stance be careful of just holding block and waiting for a spot because its not going to happen. You have to mix up your defensive options a bit if you want to not just get wrecked.

FD to push her out and use that to either get away or just get some space for buttons or to force her to come in.

Instant block to create bigger gaps in her pressure so you can hit a button, Blitz, or DP her.

Backdash if theres a big enough gap or you instant blocked. THis will cause her to whiff and leave you with several options afterwards.

Her command grab in Shotgun stance is really slow so you have a lot of time to get away.

Remember her Bridal express can be thrown if done too close or IB into a punish. If its too far you can commit to a DP to beat out her inevitable 2P. Against air bridal express use 6P at better angles, face her in the air, or even DP (riskier obviously)

If you're forced to block Bridal express at safe distances you just lost all your pressure and she's going to take her turn. Thats when you start using DP, backdash, FD, blocking, etc to try and keep her from always just pressuring you into death.

Her S buttons and up close buttons definitely will beat yours, but you just have to pick better ranges and spots. Her neutral is definitely a lot stronger and scarier than Millias, but blocking her is a lot easier too.

Honestly the only struggle with confirming against her is CH BD from full screen can be finicky at times.

This seems more in line with what I experienced. Ground Bridal express is a bit minus isn't it? Gunframe says -5 but it's still 1.0 frame data(I think). I guess it depends on how late it hits.

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Ground Bridal is probably the only pressure tool that is easy to deal with. It's only plus at max distance or close  to max  which can't be achieved that often. Also IBing should let you throw her out at any distance. Finally, we are part of the happy few who can DP her out of its startup, and Blitzing it is still an universal viable answer. Air Bridal can be a real pain if used correctly though, be sure to be on point on your AA timings if you call out one.

 

Also, yes Ground Bridal only saw a change in its pushback, frame data for it is exactly the same

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