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Hollysmoke

[Xrd] I-No vs. Sol Badguy

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  • Use this thread to discuss the Sol Badguy matchup.
  • If the matchup is giving you trouble, check to see if this post already contains info which will help you. If not, be as specific as possible when asking for help and others will be glad to give advice.
  • Please focus more heavily on discussing how to play the matchup properly than who is at advantage/disadvantage.
  • This post will be updated to collect useful info over time.
Round Start:
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Neutral:
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Offense:
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Defense:
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Punishes:
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Combo Notes:
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Fought enough Sols to give a bit of insight on this matchup

 

HCL is semi-useful. If it's read, Sol can just dash in and get in your face real fast. So this needs to be used sparingly and with purpose for mainly punishing sol's bad choices in neutral (riot stomp, far gun flame, etc)

 

Grand Viper and 2D will low profile sol against a lot of your hoverdash jumpin's (mainly j.K, and j.S) j.H might work, but haven't tested this. 

 

You can safe jump the DP with hoverdash j.K, but a good sol will mix it up with backdashes / 2D / blitzshield to beat it.

 

VCL > YRC > FD is probably the safest choice as an oki option

 

cool tech vs neutral gunflame: hoverdash 3 slightly > note > YRC > airdash. this will get you high enough to do note > YRC to get over gun flame and have the note follow without getting canceled.

 

If you can detect the sol's wildthrow patterns, sniff it out with a VCL > YRC for a big punish. 

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Is there anywhere to get out of Sol pressure with I-No? And how do you deal with Bandit Bringer I can't Anti-Air it so I'm always force to block it. It's really annoying when Sol players just start spamming it.

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Is there anywhere to get out of Sol pressure with I-No? And how do you deal with Bandit Bringer I can't Anti-Air it so I'm always force to block it. It's really annoying when Sol players just start spamming it.

 

For your first question it really depends on what kind of pressure but the answer is always yes; the how changes based on what he's doing though.  6P can anti-air Bandit Revolver/Bringer but it's not always reliable depending on the blockstring setup beforehand. If you instant block the last hit of Revolver you can punish with throw so practice that instant block timing (most characters don't need to instant block, but I-No's ground throw range is short and she gets pushed too far if you don't IB unless he does Revolver super deep).  If he's acually going for Bandit Bringer (not Revolver) a lot you can usually STBT under it to escape.  VCL can anti-air both Revolver and Bringer and you get a counter-hit combo from it but the timing is tricky enough that it's not really worth the risk.  If you're a god you can jump and instant air-throw him out of Revolver and if you do this even once he should be a lot more hesitant to use it going forward.

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Is advice from people playing the other side of the matchup welcome here anyway? 

 

Some hints from a Sol player (with plenty vs I-No experience) - if Sol does Bandit Bringers very predictably, try to jump towards him and instant block (normal block is fine too, but IB is better) the Bringer. Basically free throw as you land (becomes -4 due to landing recovery), unless it hit from really, really far. You can even throw BB out of it's startup. Be careful though, because good Sol players will utilize the opening you create this way to YRC the Bringer and grab you or just straight up do Revolver, which you have to FD. I-No's 6P usually results in clash with Bringer at far range or outright loses to ones done deep enough, and you DON'T want to eat a CH BB, like... ever.

Blitz Shield is also an option, but remember that BB can be YRC'd very, very late into it's startup and early active frames, so it's not a foolproof solution. I'm pretty sure that a certain distance BB can be stuffed with I-No's command throw (got hit with it this way multiple times), but if you miscalculate it you're eating a beefy punish for that. 

Always bear in mind that when Sol does a Bandit Bringer in pressure (not necessarily intending it to hit you, just keep you blocking) it's to reset this pressure, and for the most part he's free to do so on I-No if you didn't IB the Bringer on the ground. Multiple options beat what you have, so don't try to contest Sol's pressure reset there too much, unless he's predictable, of course. Try to wait for that point in Sol's pressure strings where he's forced to reset it again and escape from the corner, you have the mobility to do so. Force him to commit to more risky approaches by keeping him out with FD, but don't overdo it, because that's asking for a command throw. Patience is your friend against Sol, but at least you play a character that can wholeheartedly repay him for his kindness with bollocks mixups of your own. 

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Thanks guys. Fought a Sol but still got crushed unfortunately:( this one was IAD and mash Punch after every reset and keeping me in the corner this way. Tried 6P but got stuffed everytime. Even tried J.p myself but he beats me.

Uhhh. Anyone have the time to play a few sets sometime to show me what I'm doing wrong?

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Sol's j.P does an excellent job of shutting down our AA.  He kinda leans forward and so his hitbox tends to safely reach over 6P, and since it cancels into itself and is active for a really long time he doesn't even have to be precise like with his j.S.  If he's just spamming j.P though, he's not actually trying to mix you up so you can block him and go from there.  I honestly feel like Wild Throw is there to scare us into pushing buttons so that we get CH into bigger damage than WT leads to, so while you want to disrespect him from time to time, you have to know when to block.

 

Sol should only be using Bandit Revolver to keep you from jumping out.  Once he stops doing it, jump out, and when he starts, stand and block it.  Since it's -5 now you can actually IB and punish with 2K into a full combo, but the timing is pretty strict.  Even though it's possible on regular block, I wouldn't try it because Sol should only be using it at a certain spacing, and at that spacing he's going to hit later in his active frames and make it safe against that.

 

For Bandit Bringer, jump > IB, jump > throw, BS, and other options were already covered.  That said, reaction Gold Burst is an option if you want to ham it up, and Fortissimo/Desperation are other good options for ruining his day.  If you IB a most of his string before the BB and he's autopiloting enough that he doesn't adjust for it, or if he tries to get fancy and go into BB and at unexpected time off of a low level move, you could potentially walk forward and crouch/2K under it, then punish his landing recovery.  The super risky thing is prediction 6H if he does it in neutral (wont work if he was pressuring you), but in Xrd it's not worth it since CH 6H wont lead to a 50% combo meterless like he'll get off of the CH BB you're going to give him.

 

If you predict Fafnir or 6H, you can attempt to poke first with 2S.  Even if he's at max range, which is where you normally wont be able to combo into HCL from 2S, your 2S will likely Counter Hit and you'll be able to confirm the knockdown.  STBT will get owned by 6H, but you can sometimes use it to beat out Fafnir.  Sometimes though I get hit out of STBT before it starts, which is odd because it low profiles right up until it goes active.  You're really only going to benefit if you think he's going ot 5K/6P/Fafnir from closer than his max 6H range and use it to beat those, since any further away will let him reaction 2D or get away with random 6H CH confirm into 60% combo.  Try to learn j.D FDC so you can jump over 2D/f.S/5H pressure options.  All of these options have sizeable enough recovery that you can get a punish for making them whiff.

 

If he does Kudakero your best bet is probably to jump up and IB it, but watch out for YRC.  If you're not in the corner when he does this you can potentially cross under it like with Bandit Bringer, or you have the option of jumping to make the ground hitbox whiff and go for a punish on that.  Kudakero actually has terrible landing recovery and is only made safe by the shockwave after he connects with the ground.

 

If he tries to press you with 6P > 2S in the corner, block till he has to respace a little bit and then FD 1-2 hits to make his follow up pokes whiff.  This is difficult because of the range on f.S/5H/6H, but you'll have to try it from time to time.  If he tries to run in from around that range it's easier to read Wild Throw and disrespect him or get out of the way.  Again, if you're jumping out you're going to bait him to keep you in check with Bandit Revolver.  If he does that you can IB into a full punish.  If you're really feeling yourself and you're on match point + 50% meter + they're in hellfire, you can activate IK mode on prediction against Bandit Revolver and then actually throw it out on reaction to the BR with the screen freeze.  I wouldn't try it against Bandit Bringer though since our IK animation will clash it at most ranges.  :vbang:

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Damn, Bob thanks. This post wasn't in vain. I'll try to use as much of the advice as possible. I see I'm gonna have to start really practicing my IB. Didn't know it's that important for this matchup.

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IB helps a lot in a lot of places.  I guess to contrast that, you need to learn where to FD.  The thing is, you burn more meter when using FD in this game than in AC/+R, and tension pulse seems to build slower too.  For this reason I emphasize the use of IB more than FD, at least early on in a match.

 

 

Sol actually has a hard time dealing with FD.  He wants to be in your face, so if you push him out you can mess him up good.  The problem is that overuse of FD will leave your tension depleted and you'll be starving for meter to do other things, and if you're that committed to blocking you're going to let him get away with more Wild Throws than you'd really like him to.  Overall IB is important for any matchup because it opens up punishes you wouldn't otherwise have and helps you build meter faster, but FD is actually probably more important for this matchup.  More than most others anyway.  Just make sure you IB to build up your tension pulse when he's going for frame traps, but then occasionally FD to push him out of range and make him whiff something so that you can punish.

 

 

Sol has a lot of moves that aren't active for very long, so while he has some strong tools for baiting backdashes (BR, BB, GV, Fafnir, 6H, deep 5K, Gunflame, spam j.P, j.H), you can make him whiff a lot of pokes (c.S, f.S, 5H, 2K, 6P, 2D) to get a punish.

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Are there any good ways to anti-air sol? His j.HS seems to just ignore 6P a lot of the time, and a lot of the time when I use it against bandit bringer, it either clashes or whiffs (and it seems like he recovers first too if it does whiff). I try to use 2K to low profile it but if I mess up my timing that's basically death. 

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Are there any good ways to anti-air sol? His j.HS seems to just ignore 6P a lot of the time, and a lot of the time when I use it against bandit bringer, it either clashes or whiffs (and it seems like he recovers first too if it does whiff). I try to use 2K to low profile it but if I mess up my timing that's basically death. 

 

There's been a lot of anti-air discussion in general recently and we just covered some of it vs Sol.  6P is pretty good you just have to time it well (as Bob mentioned though he can screw with it with j.P), don't try to low profile Sol with a normal that's never worth it.  Going under BB with STBT can work though.  For other anti-airs you can try 5P or HCL/VCL depending on angle or just jump and meet him with an air-throw or SM (SM is gaining partial invincibility after the patch too so our anti-air game is definitely getting a little better).  I don't really have any problems using 6P against Sol, just have to adjust to his timings (both Sol and the player controlling him).

 

On the opposite end of the jump-in game, how do we safe jump Sol?  I know I've seem something mentioned about it before but can't find it again.  I can't get 66956 FF VCL to safe jump vs him off of any knockdown, he can always reversal VV before I can block, tested in training mode and wasn't able to find any effective timings regardless of knockdown (P dive, 2D, HCL~D, Throw).  I've been getting blown up by a local reversal-happy Sol and I know I need to be baiting that but I don't actually have an answer that works.  Is VCL YRC the only real option here?  Of course I'm sure something like hoverdash j.H into the ground would work but I don't know if there's any easy setups for timing or if it's just a 'practice it til you get a feel for it' kinda thing.

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