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Monokeros

Leo Combos/Setup Discussion

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In certain cases where you can't do Rekka>RC>66>HS route and have to result in the 66>5K>c.s, my friend found out you can use 66>6P>c.s, does about quite a bit more damage.

In certain combos it doesn't bring you close enough to do more damaging air variations, though it usually is even.

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2k, 5s, 5h, rekkas, RC, 236.h, 5k, 5s, j.s(1hits), dj.s, j.h, j.236h

does 175 and gives back turned

OR

 

2k, 5s, 5h, rekkas, RC, 236.h, 5k, 5s, j.s(2hits), dj.s, j.h, j.d, whiff/land, meaty [4]6s projectile 

does 172 and throws a fireball right in their face if they neutral tech. however if they tech forward they could blow up your charge direction and no fireball, so maybe read how they like to tech first..?

 

I think more needs to be discovered about 236h. along with that vague video, sometimes in a match ill intentionally skip the first rekka to get into back turned and go for marvel vergil bullshit online crossups...and 236h will sometimes keep me in front of them and hit them extra fast. so not only does it combo sometimes, but sometimes it doesn't even cross up (and yes, I know its a spacing thing, but this has happened to me when im point blank in their face)

 

ALSO, working on 2h counter hit combos, at the moment im doing

 

CH 2h, 236h (whiffs), BT.s, 214s, RC, 66, 6p, air combo

 

I just say "air combo" cause j.s push back was frustrating me last night and not letting me find a universal/optimal route...also note you have to jump cancel the 6p, cant do a 5s like youd normal do for a launcher.

im going to test out an IAD j.d after the RC today...we'll see.

2k, 5s, 6k is a good "semi" block string that leaves you plus in case youre wondering how to fish for CH 2h. cause in order for this combo to work you have to hit confirm into the 236h rather quickly so you gotta be looking for it. 6k is love! use it!

or 6k and toss out a 5k afterward, its a frame trap that blows em up for trying to jump out..? feels like it

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Doesn't j.K > 9 > j.K j.HS do more damage than j.S > 9 > j.S j.HS ?

 

 

Haven't really found a situation yet where you can't do Dorito RRC > dash > 6C dash > air combo

What is the situation where that doesn't work? Just too many hits before rekkas?

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When I do BT H>BT S>BT H>BT S>Rekka3>RRC>... the j.H>j.236H grey beats for me(Done on Sol). Also happens when I'm doing CH 5H>5K>c.S>5H>Rekka3>RRC>...

I suppose it is hitstun scaling affecting it. Either that or it's a height thing. Not too sure, I might be doing it with the opponent a bit too high.

 

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3bC0GthXlM#_=_

 

This is relevant to our interests.

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So this seems interesting - I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this. If you time your BT.S > 214S properly on an airborne opponent in the corner then you can link in 2P > 5S > into an air combo. Which air finisher is what i'm trying to work the kinks out of. I've been doing this on Sol in particular... hopefully it works on everyone or most.

This is what I have so far.  These are all in the corner or must be carried to the corner by the time you do 6[H].

5K > 5S > Rekka123 > RC > 6[H] >BT.S > 214S > 2P > 5S > j.K > j.H > (236H) - Would be 223 Damage but the 236H doesn't wanna link withou blue beating. There's probably a better combination to work out but I'm not sure. Maybe [2] > 8H? instead of making it a jump finisher? But it'd be really nice to have the BT oki.

This for sure works:

CH 2H > 6[H] > BT.S > 214S > 5K > 5S > j.K > j.H > 236H - 239 Damage.

And this Probably works? It's hard for me to pull off because i'm not the greatest player, but I did it once and I'm not sure if it was a fluke or not - sometimes j.K likes to blue beat if you dont 5k when Sol is low enough.

CH 2H > 6[H] > BT.S > Stahl Wirbel >  6[H] > BT.S > 214S > 5K > 5S > j.K > j.H > 236H > 284 Damage.

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So this seems interesting - I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this. If you time your BT.S > 214S properly on an airborne opponent in the corner then you can link in 2P > 5S > into an air combo. Which air finisher is what i'm trying to work the kinks out of. I've been doing this on Sol in particular... hopefully it works on everyone or most.

If you look back over this and the general discussion thread, yes that is EXACTLY what you should be doing in the corner.

 

You can hit 5K 5S usually, as long as you don't hit 214S too low in which case you may need 2P.

 

The followup depends on the combo, sometimes you can only get the j.K j.HS, but from some starters you get a full air combo.

 

wanted to quote the vid, but you can't quote edits on dustloop?

Some really nice RC extensions in that video, also nice to have a video compendium of which 236H air hit combos are easier one what characters.

 

Some pretty crazy corner carry in those, might actually be out best of RRC, saving them for anti air confirms.

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170 damage:

5K>5S>5H> rekka x2>RC> 5K>5S>5H>rekka x3

If the opponent is crouching you can do 5S>5f.S for extra damage (186 for 2 extra far S attacks and 177 for 1 extra far S attack)

doesnt have the corner carry that rekka x3 rc has, but leos best mixups seem to be midscreen left/right oki after rekka x3 anyways.

Speaking of rekka x3:

Following up with 236 H wiff, it is better to do BT P because it will ALWAYS hit meaty, whereas earliest timing BT K is easy to wiff. Also, using BT P>K>S is a better confirm than BT K>S.

The mixup to this is to use BT dash crossup as the main mixup. Also use BT P>S before the crossup to have a basic 3 way mixup between high/low/crossup.

I think this is leos mainline mixup and its available after rekka x3 which makes it pretty good. BT mixups should go straight into rekkas as well with the same okizemi setplay.

Its like sf4 ibuki kunai mixups, in a nutshell.

Also, some other very important stuff:

All of leos highs and lows scale damage... Except for his BT K. Also, his 5k DOES NOT prorate. So thats extremely good.

-edit

Nope his BT K scales as well.

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That's actually my spreadsheet, haha.

EDIT: I missed the 70% when I originally copied it down from the source (link on the top of that spreadsheet), it is indeed 70%.

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Oh bah... Ok good to know. That does indeed kinda suck... But more importatnt imho is that 5k doesnt prorate. Also.. Does BT P prorate? And finally, do moves only prorate when used as the first hit of a combo or do they prorate no matter where in the combo they are used?

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Most moves only prorate when used as a combo starter. There are a few that do prorate mid-combo however. In the wiki, the ones that say Initial would prorate only if used at the start.

There's also the RISC gauge affecting proration. When it is over half full, it does not prorate subsequent hits(forced proration still takes place) in a combo at all, until the gauge falls back down to below half. This is how in that defensive options combo, he did 320 damage on Venom from a 5HS CH starter.

 

EDIT: See post below.

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Actually, the RISC gauge replaces proration if there's any amount in the gauge at all; when over 50%, it will be flashing and any hits that land during that time will be counterhits, even mid-combo hits.

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Some other combos/setups for you guys:

 

Corner:

-5k, c.S, HS, rekka, rrc, j.D, 6[HS], BT c.S 214S [2], 2P, 8HS

 

-CH 5HS, 6HS, 5P, 5K, 2HS, rekkas (the 6HS 5P is a link and works on standing or crouching characters, but the remaining combo will not at the max range 6HS)

 

[4]6HS YRC mixups:

-His j.P/j.K is an instant overhead on some characters getting up, so he has 50/50 options from [4]6HS yrc after rekkas midscreen. With proper timing, if you 66, jc, j.P at the right moment, you can get an IOH on Pot/Slayer/Ram/Ino (maybe more but I've confirmed on those). This will not work if they block the projectile first. The IOH must hit first, then the projectile.

 

-If you have the meter to burn, 236HS yrc is great after this, forcing them to guess on 6K (anti throw) 2K/S (low), no yrc (crossup)

 

Both of these options can be done midscreen.

 

J.D delay yrc (after j.D activates) can serve as a marvel style tri-jump on oki, complete with 3-4 way mixup options. Because of the delay though, it may be impossible to practically use.

 

Be wary (anti-leo strats):

 

-If someone IB rekka 1, you can be throw out of rekka 2

-you can be thrown out of 236HS if you cancel from certain moves

-The j.D yrc mixup isn't that hard to block for seasoned players, or people who know the options

 

I'll post more as I find it.

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I apologize if this isn't new, but this is the biggest damage I've found off a typical 5K starter, but I've only tried it on Sol so far so I don't know if it's universal:

 

5K 5S 5H XX [2]8H(2) RC whiff j.D, walk forward 6H, dash 5K c.S jc j.K jc dj.K H XX j.236H [225 on Sol]
 
The combo for sure works with one more normal in front, like a counterhit 6K, although I believe you have to remove the double jump in that case.  Edit: Off counterhit 6H, it seems like you have to cut both the second j.K and the j.H, unless I'm just bad which is entirely possible.  
 
I wanted to find a good corner variant for this using the 6[H], BT S XX 214S stuff, but nothing I've tried will allow j.236H to still combo, and just doing something like 2P XX [2]8H is worse damage than that midscreen combo up there.  I tried c.S 2H XX [2]8H after the BT 214S but it pushes Leo too far out for the uppercut thing to connect.
 
Edit: The main combo up there definitely works on Potemkin (210 damage) and Chipp (273 damage).  Also works on May, Ramlethal, Venom, Ky, and Faust, although the timing is weird on Faust.
 
Another edit: The combo works if you start with 2K instead of 5K, too, for about 170ish on Sol.  

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Have you seen this video before? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3bC0GthXlM#_=_

 

Maybe you could incorporate some of the routes into the route you found, as it seems like some of them would work. Have you tried BT S>BT 214S>c.S>jS(2)>jH>j.236H?

If you have, then I'm afraid [2]8H ender is the only one possible.

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[4]6HS YRC mixups:

-His j.P/j.K is an instant overhead on some characters getting up, so he has 50/50 options from [4]6HS yrc after rekkas midscreen. With proper timing, if you 66, jc, j.P at the right moment, you can get an IOH on Pot/Slayer/Ram/Ino (maybe more but I've confirmed on those). This will not work if they block the projectile first. The IOH must hit first, then the projectile.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK26CpHiIeg

i'm getting this issue when performing this setup. Am I messing up the timing, or did you do this like I tried to, with the dummy set to crouch and block after the first hit?

 

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Have you seen this video before? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3bC0GthXlM#_=_

 

Maybe you could incorporate some of the routes into the route you found, as it seems like some of them would work. Have you tried BT S>BT 214S>c.S>jS(2)>jH>j.236H?

If you have, then I'm afraid [2]8H ender is the only one possible.

 

Edit: I forgot to say this, but yeah, that video was what got me messing with the combo route starting with 5K in the first place.

 

When I was messing with the corner variant more, I was able to get this to work:

 
[corner] 5K 5S 5H XX [2]8H(2) RC whiff j.D, slight delay 6[H], BT S XX 214S,  c.S jc j.K XX j.236H [240 on Sol]
 
j.S(1) and j.S(2) into Siegesparade didn't work, and j.H after any of those normal options caused Siegesparade to drop, too.  I didn't test it yet but I imagine you can't go into Siegesparade at all if you have any other normals at the start of the combo like CH 6K.
 
Also, something else I noticed last night: on Slayer, if you do 6[H] too high up, the BT S XX 214S will drop because the 214S whiffs under Slayer.  If you delay the 6[H], the BT S XX 214S works, but then I believe he isn't knocked up high enough to land c.S without the 2P beforehand.

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Edit: I forgot to say this, but yeah, that video was what got me messing with the combo route starting with 5K in the first place.

 

When I was messing with the corner variant more, I was able to get this to work:

 
[corner] 5K 5S 5H XX [2]8H(2) RC whiff j.D, slight delay 6[H], BT S XX 214S,  c.S jc j.K XX j.236H [240 on Sol]
 
j.S(1) and j.S(2) into Siegesparade didn't work, and j.H after any of those normal options caused Siegesparade to drop, too.  I didn't test it yet but I imagine you can't go into Siegesparade at all if you have any other normals at the start of the combo like CH 6K.
 
Also, something else I noticed last night: on Slayer, if you do 6[H] too high up, the BT S XX 214S will drop because the 214S whiffs under Slayer.  If you delay the 6[H], the BT S XX 214S works, but then I believe he isn't knocked up high enough to land c.S without the 2P beforehand.

 

excellent find mate :)  leo is looking strong with these high damaging combos with just 50 tension

maybe common knowledge but 5k 5s 2h 2d walk a bit jump h is a safe jump (tested against sol's dp)

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CageRedfield, the post you quoted says to do 66, j.p...you're doing 66, j.k

I get the exact same result using j.P, hits when Ram does a neutral crouch but doesn't hit when she crouch blocks. Even doing this setup on Pot gives me the same result. I'm not sure if I'm just screwing up the timing or if it was tested against the training dummy set to crouch only on wakeup.

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Considering how short and straight-forward most of his combos are I would think 5 damage would be worth it from a consistent situation? When catching a falling opponent or AAing I'll definitely go for the guaranteed route, but it seems like nobody has worked out what's universal from various combo strings yet either (or at least hasn't posted it), so I'll go with your recommendation and start with jS(2), though I'm fairly sure jK is a little stronger than jS(1) so I'll do djKH afterward. 

 

 

As for the 236H comboing from 5H it really just seems as straight forward as did you combo 5H from anything? If so you can get 236H out without the first part of the rekka. I doubt it would be useful unless the recovery is also different (which it doesn't seem to be) - maybe it will catch one opponent by surprise so you can try to press D or K before they comprehend what happened.

Every time I end the rekka with 236H I have always gotten hit first by my opponent thus far and sort of lost faith in using that option.

I'm still not even sure how to go about using raw 236H except YRCing it on oki because I always get that stuffed too.

(Granted I've only played like 15 Leo matches.)

Ive finally looked into this and i do think the close 236 H is faster.

5k,5s,5h xx 236h wont combo unless done from a dash in starter. Also, when doing this fast/close version of 236h, it doesnt seem cancelable into the followup rekka, so it cant knockdown even when combod into unless you use rc.

The best application of this knowledge seems to be to use the crossup against expected crouchblocks (fast 236h doesnt work against standing block since the opponent will start walking backwards and inadvertently not allow the close range 236h

-edit... Actually that doesnt seem like whats happening:

Going on in training mode, i found that when the 236h gets blocked...it ALWAYS gets blocked a second time, in the next chain. Then every chain i do after that the 236h combos... For what seems like 10 times or more, then randomly it wont combo, and the next one never combos but then all the next ones do.

Another hypothesis:

Some sort of flag is being raised...

Ive tried holding 236[H]... doesnt seem to make a difference.

Ive tried doing it with the risc gauge up... No difference.

-edit 2.

The rule of 2 is now gone in training mode. Im literally able to get 5h,236h to combo 10 times in a row (or so) and then i CANT combo it 10 times in a row (236h gets blocked after 5h hits) This doesnt seem random since it almost always happens many times in a row. My timing isnt so inconsistent as to THAT inconsistent.

range doesnt seem to be all that tied into it either since when the combo is working i can do the 5h from pretty far away and the 236h will still combo, yet when the combo isnt working, even if im point blank it wont combo.

We really need to figure this out imho, it may have applications for other move properties.

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