[Xrd] Elphelt - Okizeme Thread

[Magaki]

Please talk about anything related to her okizeme here.
Obviously, the unblockable setups too whether it concerns odd situations, new setups, mistakes that might have been made etc.


Links:

Okizeme wiki section
Detailed unblockable explanations
Counters universal or not (WIP)
Alioune's unblockable loop playlist

[CT_Warrior]

Meterless Okizeme off Bridal Express Ender:

Stuff > 214K > dash 236P > dash 2K meaty > 5K (react to standing/crouching/hitconfirm)

.. > 5K(hitconfirm croucher) > cS > fS > 2H > (2D) > 2P(toss) > dash cS > air combo
Ideal outcome. Good meterless damage into more okizeme.

.. > 5K(hitconfirm standing) > 2D > 214K > dash 2P (yrc) explosion oki
No added damage, but damage is damage. You might want to yrc the toss so that you have more frame advantage, or maybe it's redundant; I'm not sure. Maybe you'll have time for a safe mixup.

.. > 5K(blocked) > stuff > 2P
If you toss it early by not using 2H in your string, you can follow up with 6H to stuff jumpouts. Otherwise, you can try to time it right to reset pressure.

I think 5K meaty might be better for mixups, but there would be too many options for me to post. Also, you'll probably have to guess rather than react when choosing a followup.

[jo-p]

after landing a knockdown when is it more appropriate to go for berry toss > (buttons) pressure as oppose to whipping out the shotgun? i'm assuming midscreen you'd want to try to catch them low or something with normals and have the shotgun when they're closer to the corner for loops?

Another question: is it just me or is everyone mashing grab on their wake up? Everytime I try to run in and apply some 2k/5k pressure I get scooped 10/10 times. Is it my spacing? Or should a properly times meaty stuff their attempts at grabbing me?

[excelence]

In GG, reversal grab is legit, u don't even need to mash that, and yes just like you think, try to get your meaty on point to prevent those or stay outside their grab range.

[chun_li1]

after landing a knockdown when is it more appropriate to go for berry toss > (buttons) pressure as oppose to whipping out the shotgun? i'm assuming midscreen you'd want to try to catch them low or something with normals and have the shotgun when they're closer to the corner for loops?

Another question: is it just me or is everyone mashing grab on their wake up? Everytime I try to run in and apply some 2k/5k pressure I get scooped 10/10 times. Is it my spacing? Or should a properly times meaty stuff their attempts at grabbing me?

 

 

Online? you better forget about meaty whatever. mashing throw requires no timing, doing meaties does. or rather, watch your spacing so you dont get thrown while doing something (and try to blow up their mostly hold back mash throws with low hitting attacks)

[Magaki]

Depends of your ender but because of the grab being 1f, you want to always watch your spacing. Generally, you will do if you're too close:
walk backwards slightly>236P>2P

Go in training mode and check the throw range. It is extremely short compared to most FGs. To be more specific, it's roughly the same range as Darkstalkers' which is the serie that inspired GG1's gameplay.
Learning the throw range is important for your offense but also for your defense too. Considering how good 6H+S is for Elphelt, it's a tool you will use very often.
Like chun_li1 indicated, using a low after the opponent blocked a berry is a very good idea because if they mistimed their throw, they will block high. Generally, you will do 236P>2P>(dash) 5K>cS>etc

[jo-p]

Thanks guys, i'll definitely keep it in mind when rushing these guys down. 

[Magaki]

I'll post here the safe jump explanation and theory since it was asked in that post. Hopefully that would spark some discussion ? Up to Charleon whether he wants to add them in his guide or not.

Anyway, safe jump setups generally concern 214K or 2D>214K enders.
Generally, the best choice is to throw a grenade for oki but with Bridal ender, toss oki looks something like 214K ender>dash 236P>2P toss>dash 2P/5K for pressure.

Problem is that if the toss gets IB'ed, some characters like Sol can reversal and punish the dash normal afterwards. It's however possible to go for a safe jump (And mixups that go with it). It generally looks something like:

...>(2D)>Bridal>delay microdash>jump>Safe jump/mixups

Delay's length heavily depends on what you plan to do and against who. For the character specific part, it's actually very easy and got much more leeway than it looks like. More details in the list below.

The possibilities are:

1-Safe jump: ...>(2D)>Bridal>delay microdash>jump>Falling jS

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Basic safe jump. Exactly what it looks like. You will need to delay it a bit on the characters that wake up a bit slower. Generally got a lot of leeway so you will get the gist of it really fast in training mode. Characters you want to work on are generally Sol, Elphelt or anyone with a particularly fast reversal.
General combo afterwards is: jS>2P>cS/fS>2D>214K for 109 dmg
Can add 2H on crouching opponents.
Can do straight jS>cS for more damage but this will hurt your pressure options if jS gets blocked.
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2-Empty low: ...>(2D)>Bridal>microdash>jump>Empty jump>2K/5K

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Basic empty low. The idea is to skip the delay part completely in order to have 2K/5K hit meaty as a mean to beat fuzzy guard attempts. 2K is a much worse starter than 5K but it's faster and got decent gatlings if the opponent guesses the mixup right. Quite often, you will end up in throw range when doing that but on some characters, you can skip the microdash part and have 2K/5K hit outside of throw range this way but this will hurt your pressure options and rewards by quite a lot.

Combo is generally: (2K)>5K>cS>2D>214K for 88 dmg (71 dmg with 2K starter)
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3-Crossup: ...>(2D)>Bridal>delay microdash>jump>Falling delay jS (Midscreen only)
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jS crossup and probably the best opportunity for Elphelt to use its great hitbox behind her. Idea here is to make the microdash slightly longer that will allow to crossup. There is a problem though, getting jS crossup>2P/5K is character specific due to jS' pushback. You also need to delay the jS as much as possible to not be affected by the crossup protection and have as much hitstun as possible when you will land.

Also, because of the pushback, the only normal that can universally combo is 2D which is safe for you due to its jump and special cancel properties if it gets blocked but gives you less time to hitconfirm and decide what you want to go for next. Make sure you don't autopilot 2D>214K however unless you want to be badly punished if jS gets blocked.
 

Finally, neutral blitzshield will beat both safe jump jS and crossup jS.
Because of all those reasons, that's not something you should abuse but only do to vary your mixup options.

Basic combo: jS crossup>2D>214K for 97 dmg
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4-Late airdash: ...>(2D)>Bridal>microdash>jump>Late airdash>jS>jP>(jP)>jS

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Another (and your best) answer to fuzzy blocking and a very strong mixup option at the same time. Basic idea is to not do the delay at all, do the microdash jump and airdash as close to the ground as possible. jS will rarely hit meaty however but disrespecting it is quite hard so it's a decent oki tool but gives more time to do reversals/backdashes/gold burst/etc. You can check by yourself in training mode but even with 3f normals, it's not possible to hit her out of it.
The pros though ? Obviously it will beat fuzzy blocking but it also allows you to get ANOTHER mixup in case the first jS gets blocked.
Either you go for the full overhead string which is jS>jP>jP>jS so 4 overheads in a row or do something like jS>jP>(jP)>2K. If done well, it's not possible to hit her out of 2K and she will be outside of most throw ranges.

Definetely her best option both in terms of rewards and pressure.

BnB: [CR] jS>jP>jS>cS>fS>2H>2D>214K (151 dmg)
2K>5K>cS>2D>214K (71 dmg)

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You should have noticed that every combos will end with Bridal ender again allowing to either go for safe jump/mixup setup OR RC the Bridal to go for shotgun loop or unblockables. Up to you.
As a rule of thumb, if it kills, get your shotgun. If it doesn't, get your rifle.

Finally, you can also add throws here and there for more mixups options but throws are easier to beat and not that great midscreen at all.

[Dosu]

I'm trying out the first safe jump but I'm not quite sure what I'm trying to accomplish, at least in training mode. I knock them down after I bridal but then I'm next to them so I micro dash forward and jump over them, if it's a player am I supposed to be avoiding them doing an attack during wake up or something?

[Magaki]

First, just to make sure, you know what a safe jump is ? Right ?
 

[Dosu]

Maybe? lol. I thought it's a jump you do after the opponent is knocked down and he can't punish you on his wake up?

[Magaki]

This video should make you understand what safe jumps are and how they look like.

Basically, what the Guile player is doing is simply jumping and using an air normal a bit before landing. If the opponent do anything with no invincibility or block, the air normal will hit. If he uses a move that got invincibility on the first frame, the air normal will whiff but you will land before the reversal hits you.

That's why it's called a safe jump. You jump on your opponent and hit them and their only choice is to respect you.

In Elphelt's case, you want to do jS>1P in training mode and make sure to delay the 2P a tiny bit. That way, if jS hits or is blocked, you will do 1P as soon as you land. If however jS didn't hit due to the opponent doing a reversal, you won't be affected by hitstop and will land right away which will allow you to block the reversal.

[Dosu]

Ah, thanks for clearing that up, makes sense now