[Xrd] Slayer vs. Sin Kiske

[The_undercover_beret]

Please use this thread to share your thoughts, experiences and advice on how to deal with this match-up.

[Nov Ganon]

OMG sin is so annoying :-( his normals take up so much space how are u guys playing the matchup? How do u guys punish a blocked dust attack? Seems like he's safe on block or too far away...

[fogelstrom]

Sin is -3 on his 5D so there's nothing you can do to punish unless you IB and are in range for 2K.

His normals reach far but you can 6P through f.S and uncharged 236HS.
Dandy during your pressure is great vs Sin though if they use alot of normals because he lacks active frames on a lot of various moves. However 236K is annoying to deal with. Try to look for what the Sin player does after 236K. It's plus on block but if they always go for 236H there is a gap. You can backdash this or just block and force them to use more food. The latter tactic I use more often because when a Sin has no food Sin has nothing. He's forced to back off and he has to be very wary of K Mappa that you can easily use to score a CH and RC for easy dmg.

His jumpins aren't really great and you should easily be able to 6P or 5P AA.

I don't know most Sin player just play really bad at the moment and flowchart like hell. I kinda relax because doing dumb stuff is going to get you killed. Most Sin player basically has zero mixup and rely on you pressing buttons at stupid times. Sin gets rather high dmg easy for barely anything so it doesn't take much. Therefore I feel defense is key in this matchup at this point in the game.

 

On oki if they use alot of shoryu it has minimal horizontal range so bait it and punish accordingly.

Hard to give specific advice not seeing you play and against what kind of Sin.

[Angry Guy of DE]

Sin's overhead attack when done in pressure strings is easy to Blitz Shield and if most rejects can turn into a K dany CWH.

Another thing to be mindful of is that Sin's RTL isn't a true block string between all the hits so if he goes past you and then comes back you need to change the direction you are blocking.

[Nov Ganon]

Oh im sorry what's RTL? And thanks for the info guys

[Angry Guy of DE]

RTL = Ride The Lightning

Sin can alter what direction it goes so he can left right left and you need to block accordingly depending on the direction.

[Mr. Fancypants]

I stole this from the Sin v. Slayer matchup thread on the Sin boards. Can anyone verify that these are good tactics?
 

 

Slayer can super jump and j.2K over everything and punish you in the recovery of both 236H and 214S. If he sees 214S in neutral, he can force clash with his 5P or 2S and get out or free without having to commit to a Blitz Shield and spend 25 meter.

His neutral is bad but that doesn't mean he isn't maneuverable. It is hard for him to approach from the ground, but when he is in the air, he can use his normals to position himself above you and blow you up for whiffing anything even if you are also in the air because you can't physically get higher than him with your mobility tools.

-chzchan

Also, the Sin Matchup threads have links to the same thread from the other perspective in their top post. Could we get that going on in here? I guess I should just msg The_undercover_beret about it.

[edollarports]

They're...options. Slayer is always the one pressed to make something happen in neutral in this MU, and Slayer's usual mindset of 'I just have to hit them, I'm Slayer' isn't as valid because Sin happens to hit just as fucking hard. That being said, if you wanted to call out a driver, jumping it and whiff punishing it is a solid option. Same with dealing with overhead on the ground, although this in my experience is rarer as Sin won't hit that button except to shut down or call out movement.

You can indeed get above Sin, but Sin's antiairs are pretty good so expect a scramble if Sin is grounded.

[fogelstrom]

sj.2K is only a valid tactic to actually dodge 236H. You're not going to get any pressure since j.2K has recovery and Sin will have recovered way faster and will be able to 6P you for free or air grab you since his j.H is strong along with j.D gatle and special cancel. I prefer to just block if I have to rather than rely on gimmicky j.2K.

[_Sey]

sj.2K is only a valid tactic to actually dodge 236H. You're not going to get any pressure since j.2K has recovery and Sin will have recovered way faster and will be able to 6P you for free or air grab you since his j.H is strong along with j.D gatle and special cancel. I prefer to just block if I have to rather than rely on gimmicky j.2K.

yep, I agree!

you either block or if you think you've got a read you can call out f.S/236H with a preemptive iad jD/jHS, the risk/reward ratio can be pretty bad though.

 

he doesn't really get much from making you block his specials anyway, sure you may incur in some chip damage but that's still better than losing 70% to one of his random hit and then having to deal with deign setplay...

 

IB elk hunt (his slide, 236k) at all costs, he's +2 on normal block but -2 on IB, IB elk hunt > mash 5K seems to work really well for me (I've actually haven't tested this out in training mode just yet, but I've noticed I literally have never got wrecked for mashing 5K after IB'ing 236K, ymmv lol)

2S > 236K is not a true blockstring, even more so with IB, you can mash 2P or BDC stuff inbetween (easier said than done, his 2S and slides are all quite fast, it can be really hard to be "ready" to deal with that situation in neutral unless you are feeling confident with you reads).

 

I feel like you really just want to be calm and collected at all times vs Sin, if he has a full/near full calorie gauge then just make your way in slowly while using walk/empty 214P~ (out of 214S/236S range) to gain a bit of meter, try to make his waste calorie and then go in.

 

fwd dash can be an interesting pressure tool, his DP will whiff and if he's mashing throw/5H and you end up behind him with a fwd dash what happens is that 5H's first hit will hit you but the second will not, giving you a free punish.

 

If they get cute with jHS/jD you should know that you can air throw him inbetween, and if you IB his jHS and he doesn't commit to jD/that air special he has you should be able to throw him most of the times, kinda like what you'd do vs. bad I-no that mash her dives.

 

His tk 236H is also annoying to deal with at round start it pretty much covers gambling with dandy, fwd dash, back dash, 6P... it's a pretty decent round start option for him tbh, I think it loses to round start 5HS (should CH him mid air, haven't tested it in training mode but I've hit this a couple times on netplay and I can't think of any other situations where I could hit an air CH 5HS at round start lol) and 5K?

 

In most jp vids most Sin seems to be afraid to press stuff at round start... I wonder why, tbh it feels like round start is a very strong situation for Sin, Slayer won't yet have any meter to be able to convert any stray hit into good damage while Sin starts with enough calorie gauge to deal, like, 50%+ off a good hit lol, I guess it needs a bit of testing.

 

This match up sucks, hard, fS/and all of his specials are hard to deal with and often require you to be good at reading the other guy or straight up just gamble with BDC mappa/iad jD/pile bunker.

At least we get a few cute combos out of air hit 236K I guess!

[CounterHit-DOT]

Slayer has a lot of awful match-ups, but Sin is not one of the worse. 6P and 2H are your friends here, Under Pressure/It's Late and Teleport setups at okizeme are your friends to.