Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

The_undercover_beret

[Xrd] Slayer vs. Elphelt

Recommended Posts

Is there anything I can do against elph's Bridal Express?

Oh, it's you.

... It's you, right?

 

Bridal Express has lots of active frames. Theoretically, El can be +7 on block.

In practice, however, this doesn't usually happen (you'd have to be sitting there for quite a while from afar for Bridal Express to hit that late).

Most of the time you can punish a Bridal Express that is too close with a throw.

 

From a certain distance (around El's fS) Bridal Express can't be thrown because of pushback, but you should still be able to 2P her out of followups.

 

 

Air Bridal works like a divekick, it is + the lower it hits, and more likely to be throw punished the higher it hits (unless it hits high enough that El crosses you up and lands far away on the other side).

Don't try to whiff punish it as it recovers extremely fast (3f) and you will likely get nailed by fS or something trying to set something up on her recovery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to add that Bridal is super duper horrible for Slayer to deal with. I'm still upset by the fact the hitbox is low enough for 6P to not work. Would make a huge impact on the matchup. Wishful thinking.

However like Drake already mentioned Bridal is fort the most part minus on block even so it can be difficult to deal with. Her 2P is 4F startup as well, doesn't make things easier.
You also have BDC stuff as options. BDC Dandy, BDC Mappa, BDC Bite.
BDJC IAD j.S(x), j.K works fairly well if they only use 2P mash after but c.S/f.S will blow you up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bridal Express does beat 6P consistently?  Man I hate this character in this version...

For some reason her 5K on wake-up is hard to backdash and is +1 on block making it easy for her to confirm into cl./f Slash > 5H > Bridal Express for a knockdown and push you into the corner.

Grenade  will just shut down Slayer's entire ground game in this version with you unable to remove its intial hitbox so Elphelt gets a lot of screen control in this matchup.

Also I hate her 2S with its range and how low profile it makes her along with being able to go to 2H which is pretty safe (-2) or cancel into shotgun stance.

Did I mention I hate this match-up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Her revolver chart/gatling table is really good with 2HS and shotgun stance. I mean 2HS alone is -2 and you can cancel into 2D/5D and 2D is jump cancel and special cancel... she can just be in your face and destroy you in neutral all together. The patch will make it slightly more bearable.

The only thing Slayer has going for him in this matchup is abusing BDC/BDJC. You can more easily and safely escape shotgun stuff if you got good timing with backdashes.

You can 6P air bridal but you have to have good sense of timing since it can beat out 6P due to the angle. The more you use it the easier it gets but be prepared to get nailed a lot in the beginning leading to good dmg for Elph.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are so much annoying aspects in this match-up that it would take pages to list all of them. However I didn't see anybody mentionning the fact that Slayer's 2K whiffs on meaty if Elph mashes 2P on wake-up, and that is really a pain in the ass...

 

It is not really a problem when playing against dumb players that mash no matter what, because you can easily punish it with a classic mash bait (empty UP to Its Late). But there are very few players that are now pretty familiar with this bait and who guard Its Late on reaction.

 

From this point, I feel that my options on oki are drastically narrowed, as:

 

- 6K leads to nothing

- Bite gets beaten by 2P most of the time

- Dash cross-up gets beaten by 2P most of time as the 2P is very fast and Elphelt automatically turns around during the teleport.

 

Maybe I gotta work on an other mash bait on oki, like for example empty UP -> BDC Mappa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What? Why would a meaty 2K wiff on Elphelt? You're saying her hitbox vanishes low on her first 1-2F frames after wakeup? Or that she somehow has lower body invul on 2P startup?

Elph has no reversal options outside of overdrive, blitz and backdash like many other characters. Meatys are always free against her unless she does aformentioned.

Sounds like you are playing against someone just mashing 2P all the time on oki. I'd suggest any meaty outside throw range. And if the person never uses throw you can just do meaty IL every oki to either CH or +1 on block
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Or that she somehow has lower body invul on 2P startup"

 

-> Well it would be my guess, as I clearly see my 2K animation and It whiffs, It does not happen all the time, but it happens very often. the fact is she doesn't get hit by the 2K, even if she is in definitely in range. Maybe this is induced by the slight lag online though, and the different wake-up timing of Elphelt also I don't know...

 

"Sounds like you are playing against someone just mashing 2P all the time on oki"

 

-> Not all the time, but often when I get at close range (typically after an empty UP, and during dashes mixups).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The obvious fact is that you are just missing 2K meaty. It only has 2F active so it's not easy to time it. The foot animation however is longer than 2F that's why it might look like your feet are on her and wiffing. Hitting 2K meaty is though so I'm not surprised by the fact that you are mistiming it. I couldn't hit meaty 2K consistently if I even tried to.

The gap between UP and IL is big enough for 2P hit between so it's legit tactics. It's not uncomming for good Sol players to hit 5K between because they can OS it so the risk is minimal for them. Even if you do UP wiff I find it slightly difficult to time so that you get throw and not delay It's Late. You can BDC stuff after UP/wiffed UP as well. There are alot of options and sometimes you have to do stuff like that endlessly to condition people.

Any character that can chain 2P into itself will probably mash 2P vs dash mixups. I use it myself in mirrors. Using dash throw is my best solution against it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing is I properly time meaty 2K 99% of the time, the remaining 1% being against Elphelt. So maybe I'm mistaking when I point out the 2P...In comparison with other characters, the timing difference of her waking-up is probably way bigger than I thought, and that messes my head up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Elphelt has same 27F on face down and face up on down.
27F is a bit high for both but she's by no means anything out of the ordinary during wakeup.
If she for some reason had lower body invul on wakeup or during 2P people would most likely already know about it and rage about it as well.
Even with your confidence on hitting meaty I can only see you missing your timing. Sure you're not just hitting people after they already stood up and not on the first frames available? Most easy to notice is against shoryu characters when they hit your with shoryu without it being reversal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×