[Xrd] Slayer vs. Axl Low

[The_undercover_beret]

Please use this thread to share your thoughts, experiences and advice on how to deal with this match-up.

[fogelstrom]

What are you guys doing against Sparrow Stance? I haven't found anything. People are saying you can block or in worse cases IB the low hit and punish with 2P. I have yet to be successfull with this tactis as Slayer.

But I know you can only do 6 hits with Sparrow Stance then it automatically cancels itself. So atm I'm counting the hits then do dash YRC Mappa. It isn't even a punish it's just me spending 25% meter to get in Axl's face on -2 again.

Also anyone got anything to do between 2HS, 6HS? I know 5P and 6P doesn't work and I really should hit the lab on this one or anthing to 6HS in general. BDC something? It has helluva active frames (9F) so I'd guess you could time a K dandy perhaps? Blitz is another obvious option/choice otherwise.

Just the 2 things I'm having some trouble with and that I think every Slayer player should know how to deal with.

[Mr. Fancypants]

I, also, am having trouble with sparrow stance. I wonder if we can get away with FDC dead-on-time after the recovery...

 

Have you tried 2S against Axl 6H? It should clash or beat it clean at most distances. It's scary to stick your foot in the air against that dandy bastard, but it's a strong AA.

 

You can probably BDC jump out of Axl 6H with the proper reaction sped, but that puts you in the air just above him, which is basically an Axl players favorite thing, so jump with caution and a plan.

[fogelstrom]

I, also, am having trouble with sparrow stance. I wonder if we can get away with FDC dead-on-time after the recovery...

 

Have you tried 2S against Axl 6H? It should clash or beat it clean at most distances. It's scary to stick your foot in the air against that dandy bastard, but it's a strong AA.

 

You can probably BDC jump out of Axl 6H with the proper reaction sped, but that puts you in the air just above him, which is basically an Axl players favorite thing, so jump with caution and a plan.

Yes you can if you time it well and are good with TK cancels.

2S doesn't have any upper body invul so I don't see why it would be better alternative than 6P honestly. 6P has above the knees invul and still gets blown up easily and doesn't even clash. At the moment I'm just backdashing the 6HS since I still suck really bad with Blitz and always forgets it.

[RoBoBOBR]

Dash YRC mappa? Why not 6[6] 2369K? Also mid hit of stance can be 6Ped.

 

As for BDCing - remember you can evade the whole of 6H with 44's invuls and the cancel into something, like 236P. BDC got easier, no reason not to =)

[fogelstrom]

Dash YRC mappa? Why not 6[6] 2369K? Also mid hit of stance can be 6Ped.

 

As for BDCing - remember you can evade the whole of 6H with 44's invuls and the cancel into something, like 236P. BDC got easier, no reason not to =)

 

YRC is to slow down the recovery of Axl so I don't get hit by 623S or stuff Mappa in any way. I got the meter to spend most of time vs Axl.

6P vs midhit is all we got? Too much of a gamble for me... getting hit will net them dmg, meter and another fully stocked sparrow stance against you again.

Had a friend crunch the numbers on 6HS wiffed on backdash and you only got ~2 frames where you'll hit the recovery of 6HS and it won't even be CH. Blitz still is the best option here for the time being. It has to be called out so it's not abused as well. Important to show people and shut down options.

[Ukyo_PL]

What are you guys doing against Sparrow Stance? I haven't found anything. People are saying you can block or in worse cases IB the low hit and punish with 2P. I have yet to be successfull with this tactis as Slayer.

But I know you can only do 6 hits with Sparrow Stance then it automatically cancels itself. So atm I'm counting the hits then do dash YRC Mappa. It isn't even a punish it's just me spending 25% meter to get in Axl's face on -2 again.

Also anyone got anything to do between 2HS, 6HS? I know 5P and 6P doesn't work and I really should hit the lab on this one or anthing to 6HS in general. BDC something? It has helluva active frames (9F) so I'd guess you could time a K dandy perhaps? Blitz is another obvious option/choice otherwise.

Just the 2 things I'm having some trouble with and that I think every Slayer player should know how to deal with.

Not an expert but Axl is my main offline sparing partner so i know few bits and bobs about the matchup 

 

Sparrow Stance -> Well it's crap and depends from how quickly you will realise that he will go to stance if you can read stance it's fairly simple FDC High Jump Shield takes you to mid screen game usually and you can avoid next stance works miracles for me and risk isn't that high 

 

If you wont read it early and Axl stands already in it we are very limited 6P is to risky JB with 2P punish would be ok but it can be avoided by Axl by just going High from stance quickly so honestly for me being patient doing as much JB's as i can and blocking with shield/blitzing it is the most reliable way. Problem starts when Axl isn't willing to shoot all of the hits and starts mixing it with cancelling Sparrow and going back to it that drives me crazy. Remember that you will get 50% of used Tension back if you catch anything with it and you will regain next 25% by moving forward to get that bastard ;f

 

2H,6H on block forward dash works for me but i played hundreds fights against good Axl so im just used to it and JB him allot  

 

If i will find some time as im playing on PS4 i will try to upload some of our replays you might or might not find it helpful 

 

Fogelstrom we need to play again should be winning more now since i finally spent few hours in practice to put j2K loops in place to not waste damage :D

[Mr. Fancypants]

Things I have learned about this matchup:

 

-You need BDCs. This is true of all matches all the time, but in this one, you seriously need them. P mappa is very bad against Axl, BDC P mappa is very good. Once you establish your ability to repeatedly BDC P mappa in his face, he has to respect you for fear of CH mappa > 5k > Mappa RC > air combo.

 

-You need BDCs. While Axl gets to approach you for free, You can't rush him down from full screen without a good guess. Also, he gets to push you out if you block. Do 442369P on reaction to approaches like IAD P to get out of the pressure and get in close at neutral. I live and die against Axl based on how effectively I can dance out of his approaches.

 

-You really need BDCs. Axl has tools to beat BDC P mappa, and the best answer I've found is 442147KP. Getting out of a rensen or an Axl 2H and landing CH PB is a really great feeling.

 

-You really, really need BDCs. BDC Bite covers almost all of Axl's wakeup options. I don't have BDC bites yet, and I get punished for it a lot.

 

-FD in the air is probably more important here than any other matchup, and treat air-teching like you've been knocked down. You're at serious disadvantage and Axl can cover all the options aside from throw. So block.

 

-That said, don't be afraid to fish for counterhits on Axl's chains. If you can come down on top of Axl's 5P with your j.D, you'll create a lot of space to get in. Do this *After* you've blocked a lot of those chains and you have a pretty good idea of when/where they'll appear. This is a HARD READ, and blocking is a better choice until you're sure it'll work.

 

-Green Chains (Rensen?) > spinny knockdown chain followup in the corner is a frame trap. Don't mappa after the spinny chains. You will eat a DP. It will not be fun.

 

-Slayer 6P beats Axl 2P clean. I don't know how to make Axl throw 2P, but I know I can beat it.

-If you can establish yourself at the edge of your P mappa range, you have free license to spam 442369P and 442147PS these against him. They both put you at about the same spacing, so you can play with choices/tempo pretty freely. This will net you lots of guard bar, lots of meter, and eventually you can do empty 442147P > 2k/throw mixup into knockdown. If it seems like he's getting antsy, but you don't want to take a risk, do 442147P YRC 442147K. Trust me, it's fun.

Also, 632146S > YRC > 214K punish against full-screen whiffed anything. 75% meter is a ton, but damage is damage at the end of a match. It felt a lot like fishing for the clinch DoT back in #Reload, just even more expensive. It's fun though, like being fired from a cannon. It works pretty well against opponents that know you are looking for the DoT, and are trying to bait you with something safe against the super.

[Kicks]

Sparrow stance is so insane when you get knocked down. Even when you block you eat tons of chip unless you FD, but no FD means you get more frames. It's such a drag.
Weird things can stuff it even though he's at full screen. 1.10 Patch notes say he has even more hurt box now though?
Anyways, still looking for advice in this situation. When I can actually get up, 2P, 5P and 5K work surprisingly well. Cancel into mappa or IAD to close the gap.

[Nov Ganon]

I usually 6p him while he's in sparrow stance

[daymendou]

Some Sparrowhawk tests from fullscreen. Low is a problem.

If Axl mashes on clash, he will leave Stance.

K Mappa beats Mid after Low block. It can trade with Low if you start before Axl does but you get knocked down.

5H will clash with Mid after Low block. Seems more reliable than 6P.

2H can clash with Low but it's slow and will get caught by Mid. On clash, you can CH 2K > Mappa to get in if Axl doesn't mash out

EW will clash or beat everything but you are open if he does nothing.

TK SDD can beat or lose to Low and always loses to Mid as far as I've tried. BDC SDD might let you beat both for free.

Backjump j.K beats High for free, even after blocking Mid/Low. If he doesn't go High, you're still safe if he mashes Mid.

If you super jump after High whiff, airdash Footloose will get you in but be careful if he has 50% to RC

[Melo]

Some axls like to get into sparrow stance full screen. Doing long dash jump cancel as soon as you see the animation gets you in free.