Bedman Critique Thread

[Tiamat]

Since someone brought it up in the FAQ thread I decided to start this since apparently I do have a vid after all.  It's from a recent local tournament.  I'm not proud of this match but if you have any advice go for it.

 

vs Shazzeh (Leo)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXGRyfuJ-CU

 

Some self critique and comments

- pretty free to Leo's 236H crossup.  need to grab it

- pretty free to wakeup DP.  embarrassingly, all 4 rounds I lose are lost to a DP as the finishing attack

- generally too passive and air task A spamming.  j.P would have been helpful in lots of places.  

- 0:49 dropped combo for no good reason.  I'd normally do j.P here after landing.  there are a couple other points like this

- 1:28 this dash is a complete accident

- 1:48 if you instant block the 1st rekka the 2nd hit will crossup.  this also allows you to grab it though.  

[MrSoulo]

I asked and I received thanks a lot man lol

[Alkipot]

Tiamat, you might've lost but your movement is top-notch, lots of things I picked up to copy here. I really gotta abuse j.S more, as well as 886 j.K > j.S, it's a great move. The Leo player was solid too.

 

One thing I've learned against Leo is to empty jump grab the shit outta him when you're in the air and he's in back stance. Most are waiting to counter parry bed drop if they have any familiarity with the matchup. Also, Bedman's forward walk speed tends to frighten people into wakeup DPs. If you feel you've conditioned them enough to bait it, go for it since it's safe for you too. Good match bro.

[Tiamat]

It seems there are more.  

 

vs 4r5 (Slayer)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHvDWZssmUI

vs Jobber Juckus (Zato)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=terElTQyas8

[GcYoshi13]

Since someone brought it up in the FAQ thread I decided to start this since apparently I do have a vid after all.  It's from a recent local tournament.  I'm not proud of this match but if you have any advice go for it.

 

vs Shazzeh (Leo)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXGRyfuJ-CU

 

Some self critique and comments

- pretty free to Leo's 236H crossup.  need to grab it

- pretty free to wakeup DP.  embarrassingly, all 4 rounds I lose are lost to a DP as the finishing attack

- generally too passive and air task A spamming.  j.P would have been helpful in lots of places.  

- 0:49 dropped combo for no good reason.  I'd normally do j.P here after landing.  there are a couple other points like this

- 1:28 this dash is a complete accident

- 1:48 if you instant block the 1st rekka the 2nd hit will crossup.  this also allows you to grab it though.  

 

- Numerous times you did red RC after Task C into 5H-> Task C. Don't red RC your combos after Task C, unless you know it'll carry them in the corner. It doesn't add a lot of damage to your combos. Your tension is very valuable for yellow RCs with DV after knockdowns. That's a better investment.

- Leo is heavily ground based. You don't need to jump so high to throw Task As. Use the ball to cover the ground to force Leo in the air so you can anti-air him. You seldom used 6P to anti-air, which is Bedman's best normal arguably.

- Your oki is a bit too fair. If you're worried about his wake-up DP, a good set-up after a Task C combo is DV Task C, empty jump forward (hold FD), and go for low. Remember that Leo's DP is likely to hit twice, and you must FD both hits.

 

Not much to say otherwise. I personally like to air dash forward more with j.S or j.K  in neutral rather than just jump and do j.S. That's how I play neutral though.

[GKHiryu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnaOo_16Zt8

 

Not the newest nor my/my opponent's best, but it's a good slice of how I play. It's from about a week ago.

 

Note:

I may misuse 6P sometimes, I blame lag

 

Self critique:
- I've already improved on Slayer matchup. I'm using counters to his 214K consistently and rely more on knowledge/reaction than reads.

- I need to perform offense more fluently, sometimes I jump cancel without purpouse in mind, sometimes I linger in airdash stance etc.

- Use proper combos when I'm in a range where TaskB/C will not hit.

- Keep my cool.

 

That I know of and am working on. Anything you wish to share with me is welcome.

[Tiamat]

- Numerous times you did red RC after Task C into 5H-> Task C. Don't red RC your combos after Task C, unless you know it'll carry them in the corner. It doesn't add a lot of damage to your combos. Your tension is very valuable for yellow RCs with DV after knockdowns. That's a better investment.

- Leo is heavily ground based. You don't need to jump so high to throw Task As. Use the ball to cover the ground to force Leo in the air so you can anti-air him. You seldom used 6P to anti-air, which is Bedman's best normal arguably.

- Your oki is a bit too fair. If you're worried about his wake-up DP, a good set-up after a Task C combo is DV Task C, empty jump forward (hold FD), and go for low. Remember that Leo's DP is likely to hit twice, and you must FD both hits.

 

Not much to say otherwise. I personally like to air dash forward more with j.S or j.K  in neutral rather than just jump and do j.S. That's how I play neutral though.

 

 

Good points.  That RC is pretty wasteful most of the times I do it.  I'll try just jumping forward with FD on DP chars.  I have lots of trouble getting anything going on them.  

[Tiamat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnaOo_16Zt8

 

Not the newest nor my/my opponent's best, but it's a good slice of how I play. It's from about a week ago.

 

Note:

I may misuse 6P sometimes, I blame lag

 

Self critique:

- I've already improved on Slayer matchup. I'm using counters to his 214K consistently and rely more on knowledge/reaction than reads.

- I need to perform offense more fluently, sometimes I jump cancel without purpouse in mind, sometimes I linger in airdash stance etc.

- Use proper combos when I'm in a range where TaskB/C will not hit.

- Keep my cool.

 

That I know of and am working on. Anything you wish to share with me is welcome.

 

You should try 2K more often after they block your 236K.  In this vid it seems you're mostly doing c.S. At the start of the 2nd round you get a 236K blocked and do c.S then you get a 214K blocked shortly after that and do c.S again.  When I'm looking at the video he blocked both the c.S standing so if you had done 2K you would have hit him.  Once they start blocking low you can try other things.

 

Doing more proper combos is important.  Several times you chain into f.S after hitting them and f.S doesn't go to much of anything.  Go to 2D somehow at least if nothing else.  

[Alkipot]

Man, watching these videos shows how much better people are at using this character than I am Looks like I still have a lot to learn.

[MrSoulo]

^ this I got a lot of work today mainly in neutral my combo selection and execution is pretty decent tho

[NecroTheReaper]

I wanna upload too... but I want high quality videos as well... WHY CAN'T I JUST RIP MY REPLAYS OFF THE PS3 Dx.

@Tiamat I noticed a lot of sj.236S when you had a healthy stockpile of meter to get some distance vs that Leo. You YRC'd it in the later matches (honestly, j.236S is probably my absolutely least used move, though I should probably use it occasionally for space control)

@Hiryuu be careful with your positioning. You put yourself dangerously close to them on wakeup that unless you were gonna IOH or something, he could've just grabbed. Other than that, a pretty strong use of YRC's for mixup, if you had switchrd it up I doubt he'd have been able to block it

[GcYoshi13]

http://www.twitch.tv/norcaldogfight/b/612518159

 

I got 5th out of 44 entrants in the most recent Norcal Dog fights. I have an idea of what I did wrong, but feel free to give me any more pointers. I'll list time stamps:

 

VS Pot (3:18:20)

VS Elph (3:54:20)

VS Pot/Sol (4:32:40)

VS Ram (4:52:00)

[Tiamat]

Good matches.  There were several places (mostly in the first two matches vs pot and elph) you could have gotten a knockdown by doing a combo to 236H but you went for air combo.  You'd hit an airborne opponent with something into c.S then do air combo to 236S.  Knockdown is probably better.  I also saw some knockdowns into 236P whiff which I assume weren't intentional but it happened a few times.  

[rubedo777]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnaOo_16Zt8

 

Not the newest nor my/my opponent's best, but it's a good slice of how I play. It's from about a week ago.

 

Note:

I may misuse 6P sometimes, I blame lag

 

Self critique:

- I've already improved on Slayer matchup. I'm using counters to his 214K consistently and rely more on knowledge/reaction than reads.

- I need to perform offense more fluently, sometimes I jump cancel without purpouse in mind, sometimes I linger in airdash stance etc.

- Use proper combos when I'm in a range where TaskB/C will not hit.

- Keep my cool.

 

That I know of and am working on. Anything you wish to share with me is welcome.

 

You should be instant blocking Slayer's pressure...it's one of the easiest characters to instant block to be honest. Instant blocking K Mappa is a free punish.

 

Also Slayer's hurtbox when knocked down with a sweep, is pretty big compared to other characters...probably the biggest even? You can do combos into sweep from fairly far away and still be able to combo 236S without it hitting as OTG. You should be using bigger combos against Slayer because of that, play around with it in practice mode.

 

 

You know what I see many Bedmans guilty of? The moment they create a seal...they dejavu it, even though opponent isn't near it to get hit. Why do you do this? It's almost like giving them a reminder that it exists (which is bad). More specifically I'm talking about air 236S high in the air when opponent is grounded or air 236H seals close to you while the opponent is a full screen away.

[QSpec]

I can answer for dv.Task C.  The start up on it allows it to hit people who start an approach even from full screen. 

 

DV is just slow enough that without a cancel it can be caught out from a surprising range by certain characters so DV on reaction (sans cancel) isn't always an option.

 

I think it is a yomi thing.

[ExiledPreon]

I'm New to DL and New to Guilty Gear and its quite an exciting game. Trying my best to learn the mechanics of the game. Having a hard time adapting to using a dualshock 4. 

 

That aside I know some aren't too keen on Commentary during MU footage so I'll keep that in mind for future posts.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mkl6LfCE-ns

(

Things I'm working on

- More YRC deja-vu task C/A

- Ending more strings in sweep (2D) setting up off that

 

Unfortunately I think a few of these wins might be EXPLICITLY due to the fact of most people, especially online have no idea what the bedman MU is.

[Tiamat]

ExiledPreon:

Based on your commentary after that first match it seems you are using the analog stick.  If you are going to use pad (and I do too) you should really be using the d-pad.  Using the analog stick is just...wrong.  It is harder to get precise commands with it.  I think before anything else you need to get your hit confirms down.  For example, you will hit 2P2P2P and then do 236H or 3H, or something else that can't combo.  Gatling 2P into a c.S or a 2K and go to 2D.  After multiple hits you should be able to notice you hit them and do a combo.  Also, you should be able to hit confirm off 5H(2).  Pay attention to how you're hitting them.  You hit it on an airborne opponent and went to 1H which missed.  Notice that they are being hit in the air and then go to 236H instead if they are in the air.  

[rubedo777]

Something more critical...why are you playing against 0 bars in ranked? Really, with 7+ frames of delay, it's all meaningless.

[Alkipot]

I liked the commentary :P

But yeah, like Tiamat was saying, just work on your confirms. I make the same mistakes myself with things that don't chain. Also, try player matches for better connections.

Guess I can add a video for review: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9D91Voia6k0

Don't be fooled by the wins, I think I just caught a lucky streak (and no Sol lol). Loss footage on the way.

Note to self: remember to use the jD instant overhead, YRC tasks, stop gambling with bed flip/bedslam

[Tiamat]

Alkipot:

- at 2:53 you got hit by a burst while doing j.H.  Always block while doing j.H and their burst will be in vain

- I think you're doing too many RC combo extensions like GcYoshi told me to stop doing a while back.  Unless it's for the kill or you're trying to corner carry you should probably only RC for j.D and 6H combos.  Use that meter for YRCs instead.  

- I think you do the air 236H too much.  Most of these people are letting you get away with it though.  

- If you want to do 3H without going to a special you should just do it to any DV motion (even with no DV seals onscreen).  You'll recover faster than if you just did the 3H into nothing.  3H nothing is probably useless.  

- If you want to go up high you should do a superjump instead of doing a normal jump to 7/8/9.  Doing that from normal jump takes more time to get altitude, and it uses up your airdash so your air movement is very limited if you do that.  

[NecroTheReaper]

Also, no reason to not always use some throw OS. Like every time. You whiffed a lot of 6HS's, so if people start noticing that you're not OSing it, they could just start neutral jumping and punish you with a falling normal. Plus, use some seals every now and then. You'd have them block a 2D that pushed you pretty far out with a seal set and not use it.

[Alkipot]

Awesome, thanks for the tips guys, many things to add/subtract from my play, habits to break etc. Lots of stuff to try in training mode too. jH can beat bursts if you block? :D And yup I haven't been OSing throws at all or using seals at opportune times, gotta just get it into muscle memory.

[rubedo777]

I was going to mention some things before since I was spectating you...

 

You almost never use YRC 236P. This is such an important YRC, it allows you to quickly change the momentum of the match, by chasing after it with airdash mixups while they block it.

 

Also, some of your mixups were useless...how should I explain this...

 

In the matches I saw, you were using a lot of that pointblank 236K teleport behind trick on wakeup after Task B and C. You were using this more than you were using your dejavu seals. The reason it's not effective is...ok, most of Bedman's setups are not beatable by reversal dps/supers, because he can block/airblock freely while his dejavu moves are attacking. The existence of these setups makes competent players not really want to reversal on wakeup (since they know that it generally won't work). This makes setups such as using pointblank 236K teleport, more effective, if it's done very sparingly...when the opponent is expecting yet another dejavu setup only for you to instead do the teleport ball one...you'll get away with it like this. The way you were using it, you didn't condition them to not want to dp, and you overused it, and got reversaled through it a few times.

 

Also, for each mixup that uses a specific jump trajectory (for example, 882), you should have multiple variations of attacks.  You used a lot of 882 empty jump into 2K, but that was the only setup you had with 882.

 

After sweeps, you should either throw 236K, or you can 886 forward. Now here's the thing...the earlier you do a jumping normal during your 886, the faster you will land to the ground. If you do sweep into say, 886H, you will land quickly and right in front of them, before they wakeup. From here, you can do whatever mixup, like 2K, jD, etc. You can also do the jH (or whatever jump normal) during 886 late, so that it actually hits them on wakeup instead of whiffing. Have to mix things up.

 

You aren't offensive enough with Bedman. Against bad players you might get away with staying back and zoning them out but you can't keep doing that against good players, your damage output will be way too slow in comparison to theirs. When you have the opportunity, you need to get on the offensive and don't let them breath.

 

These guys don't know how to block, don't do jH so much....well, it's hard to really tell you that, because if you do it against them, they will most certainly get hit, but it's a bad habit at higher level.

[Tiamat]

Awesome, thanks for the tips guys, many things to add/subtract from my play, habits to break etc. Lots of stuff to try in training mode too. jH can beat bursts if you block? :D And yup I haven't been OSing throws at all or using seals at opportune times, gotta just get it into muscle memory.

 

Yeah just hold 4 or 1 during your j.H and you'll block if they burst (or DAA) while they are being hit or blocking the j.H.  It doesn't mess up your combo or anything to block during the j.H so try to make it a habit.  

[Unadulterated_Jam]

Hi Dustloop, I have some painful footage of my first serious Bedman play in a local tournament: http://www.twitch.tv/jgarcade/c/6037644

Frankly I'm surprised I did as well as I did considering the Sol player.