[Xrd] Ramlethal vs Faust

[zaeris]

Using the 6p against faust f.s is a gamble but it is something top players will use because if succeed it will give you oki and corner carry, almost your win condition since you will be getting a clean hit dauro.

Now there are risk but the idea is yomi, the ability to read your opponent and of course it is a guess, much like predicting a dp.

In the end it is an option much like everything else you can.... in a way it is valid. Since as a player you should consider all option and since there isnt a single solution to everything, there nothing wrong with trying either route.

[Complexity]

You don't understand what I'm trying to get across. Using 6p to read the Faust f.s is safer than using other moves because of its upper body invul. However, if you are already trying to guess in the first place, it is very likely that the scramble will always come down to 2 scenarios. Either the Faust hits f.s and you punish him with whatever you press because you read his f.s or Faust does not hit f.s and will most likely punish whatever you whiffed because the recovery on all those moves are plenty enough for Faust to react to with his own f.s.

 

This is why if you want to make a gamble, doing it with 5h is the best, because in the scenario that it misses, you still get hit by Faust f.s as a punish anyway. It's no different from if you whiffed 6p. You take a scalpel to the face. The difference lies in that if you used 6p, you get about 140 damage to corner carry, whereas if you scored with 5h, you get 200 damage to corner carry. If you want to guess the Faust f.s, whether the move in question used to punish has upper body invul is almost irrelevant because it's only relevant for about 9 frames after the Faust uses f.s and it is downright impossible to react to that with 6p.

 

I'm not saying that using 6p is bad if you want to counter Faust's f.s. It's damn good for sure, since it still gives you corner carry. The thing is that there is another option that gives more reward for almost the same risk. It's like if you went to a casino and there were 2 tables but one gave you 2x the input while the other gave you 3x the input. Which table would you sit at?

 

5h has 14f of startup, so if you factor in Faust's 10f f.s startup, he has 4f to react to you pressing 5h in order to beat it. That's obviously impossible so he won't be able to react to beating your 5h with f.s.

 

Of course, the other reason why 6p is better than 5h is because of its lower recovery. If your opponent cannot react to a 25f whiff, then by all means 6p is infinitely better than 5h because not only does it offer reward, but there is also no risk.

 

In the end, do whatever makes you comfortable fighting against the Faust f.s. If 6p works for you, go right ahead and use it. I'll probably be sticking with 5h however, because analysis reveals that using 5h is often better than using 6p if you want to guess the Faust f.s.

 

Edit: Faust can do 2h fishing rod to catch 5h more easily than 6p, but even doing so is difficult because it requires a short dash into the 2h. This works against all whiffed pokes, so as Killey mentioned earlier, don't make beating the Faust f.s your main game plan because it will come back to haunt you when the punish turns from f.s into a 2h fishing rod.

[Complexity]

Since it's actually not mentioned here yet, and I believe it should be, Faust can duck under the back half of Trance, so remember to follow your Trance up with a 2k so he gets into his blocking animation and will not be able to duck under it. This also works even if Faust is knocked down and crouches when he wakes up. The worst thing that can happen is doing a Trance on Faust's wakeup but he pokes you out with 2p instead.

[zaeris]

from my point of view it if your comparing option what about the margin of error.

Like for example assuming often the case where people dont press button at the same time at neuttal. With 6p you at least have more freedom to make delay guess because of upper body invul or does 5hs has the same property.

If it was me anyway i would take into account margin of error. Same with wake up reversal dp, its doable but you can misstime. Apply that to 6p and 5hs where i might not press my button on perfect frame but i still got that flexibility when im guessing a f.s anyway.

On last point I on concur that faust f.s isnt the only game.

[Nyaa]

I don't understand the arguement. It seems we all agree.

 

Speaking of Fausts hitbox while crouching, he completly evades Ram 6P. But, in his couching idle animation after he farts the flower right when he gets that angry #-icon on his forehead, 6P can hit him.

[Syklone]

I'm getting sick of 4P whiffing on this asshole btw. FIX THAT SHIT

[Citadel19]

So with that said, are there any other tools that we should be aware of in Faust's arsenal? I feel like jH is also an issue but that could just be me.

 

I enjoyed the conversation about the 6P vs 5H in neutral, I'll have to try them both out and go from there. On the 5H hit, what would be the follow up after the hit? I imagine either Dauro or something with that is in the air, although the air option may be difficult to pull off. Also on the 6P, what would be the follow up there? Would the OS work here too?

[Complexity]

5h CH IAD j.k j.s j.8d loops and corner.

 

6p CH Daruo combinations and corner. You can just do 6p 623p for a simple OS.