[CT] Taokaka Combo & BnB Thread

[Hintalove]

You didn't really answer any of my questions. I wasn't asking about the 236b part in the air, I was asking for a better combo than doing 2d~9 j.c 9d~9 j.c 9d~9 236bb 236bbb. Like doing the a cancels and stuff to get more drives(since drives do more damage than j.c). The third question wasn't about whiffing the taunt because it was too slow, but because as I go through them with my b cancel I end up directly beneath them and as they fly over to the other side my taunt gets crossed up. Is there any video of this combo?

[Sileh]

Hey, I had a couple quick questions about combo fundamentals. The first being, could some one expain the more advanced drive loop variations? Piecing together how to start the taunt combos is easy enough but I know that doing 236cc 2d jc 9d jc 9d 236b is not the optional way to end those combos, and generally isn't even giving me a knockdown. What is the theory behind maximizing damage in the drive loop it self?

First of all I would like to say that certain combo chains will not give you a knockdown, but the one you mentioned (236cc 2d jc 9d jc 9d 236b) is not accepted as an end to combos because it does not give you a knockdown and does fairly weak damage compared to other endings. 236cc -> 2d~6 -> j.c -> 9d~9 -> j.c -> 9d~9-> j.c -> 9d~9 -> j.236bb -> j.236bbb will give you a knockdown. If it does not, you are doing it wrong.

The theory behind maximizing damage in a drive loop is pretty obvious. You are a Titanium member so I will be blunt with you. Do the most damage to your opponent as possible while avoiding the negative effects of proration. Taunts in a combo, slow the proration process, and do more so the earlier they occur in the combo. Throws on the other hand, are awful for proration scaling; which is why combos started with throws are not the highest damaging ones for Taokaka. Taokaka gets 4 vertical drives, after that she can only drive horizontally. You need to spend her vertical drives wisely in combos, which bring us to the next point.

Now as far as drive loops go, your aim is to get the opponent horizontal with Taokaka, and continue to do 5d~6 drives as much as possible, usually coupled with j.c's. Take this same combo we used earlier for example: 236cc -> 2d~6 -> j.c -> 9d~9 -> j.c -> 9d~9-> j.c -> 9d~9 -> j.236bb -> j.236bbb. How can we turn this combo into a drive loop? Let's make our opponent horizontal to us. How?

2 widely accepted options here: First, stop the initial D cancel. Do 236cc -> 2d -> 5d~6 -> j.c -> 5d~6 -> j.c -> 5d~6 -> j.a -> j.c -> 9d~9 -> 9d~9 -> j.236bb -> j.236bbbb. See what happened there? By not canceling, it allows Tao to keep her opponent at her level in the air. Number two, in a corner, hitting a 5d~C followed by a 5d~A is another way to keep your opponent horizontal to you without using up a vertical drive. Note that with this option, the opponent must already be airborne.

Second being, I don't quite get it, but doing 236cc after taunt seems pretty unstable. I get it to work in the normal taunt combo, but off stuff like 6c 66 taunt 236c it usually is too slow.

You are correct when thinking this, I also have never found use for the 236cc after a taunt. However, Taoftw is only human and I believe he meant 236aa. I have been wrong before, so fellow Tao's correct me if I have led this Kaka astray

Lastly, how staple is backthrow > command jump > 2d~b taunt? Seems like I always end up facing the wrong way after the b cancel and end up whiffing my taunt. What is the timing supposed to be for canceling the throw?

Do you wish to have more damage on your combos? If you answered yes, I believe any combo that does more damage than the others would be considered staple. As for the timing, it is best described through watching it being done in the Japanese Tutorial Video. You can find this in the Visual Combo Tutorials section here at DL. If you have figured out how to do j.2d~b, you have already gotten 3/4 of the timing on the technique down.

You didn't really answer any of my questions. I wasn't asking about the 236b part in the air, I was asking for a better combo than doing 2d~9 j.c 9d~9 j.c 9d~9 236bb 236bbb. Like doing the a cancels and stuff to get more drives(since drives do more damage than j.c).

Like I explained above, those are the widely accepted combo endings that provide not only the most damage, but also guarantee a knockdown. If you want to get fancy with cancels, they mostly happen earlier in the combo string. Taokaka's combo endings will all look similar because of their superior function and damage. Also note that finding "the most damaging" combos has probably already been done by Japanese players since they do nothing but spend days on ending finding them. Just_here has two videos worth of combos translated in the Visual Combo thread. I would also suggest trying out your own variations and posting them for us to see.

The third question wasn't about whiffing the taunt because it was too slow, but because as I go through them with my b cancel I end up directly beneath them and as they fly over to the other side my taunt gets crossed up. Is there any video of this combo?

I am feeling very lazy after posting that giant novel, so please indulge me with the combo you are trying to do?

[Hintalove]

Thank you for answering the main question I have, which was explaining the more advanced enders and the theory behind them. The final bit was about the backthrow > command jump > j2d~b > taunt combo, but if it is in a tutorial vid some where I'll just go watch that and take the timing.

[Sileh]

I'm not finding a video of that one, but I can recommend learning this chain because it has almost identical timing and will see more use:

5B -> 6A (1hit) -> JC -> j.2d~b -> taunt -> 214d -> j.2d~b -> taunt

I have troubles with the back throw taunt combo as well, but I am getting better with it. In fact the timing with that particular j.2d~b is only rivaled by:

3. 6c -> 214d -> j.2d~b -> Taunt -> 214d -> j.2d~b -> 5c -> 2d~5 -> 5d~c -> 5d~a -> 9d~9 -> j.c -> 9d~9 -> j.236bb -> j.236bbbb [5068]

This is the thread I was talking about btw.

[Ronove]

You didn't really answer any of my questions. I wasn't asking about the 236b part in the air, I was asking for a better combo than doing 2d~9 j.c 9d~9 j.c 9d~9 236bb 236bbb. Like doing the a cancels and stuff to get more drives(since drives do more damage than j.c).

Sorry if I didn't understand that bit of your question, I thought you were asking for a better combo ender when usually all the combos that Tao can do will always end with a string of 236bb->236bbbb since it's her only way to nail the opponent on the floor while being airborne.

There are plenty of variations in the drive loop combos, that depend on how well you can pull of the the various cancels. The reason why the 2d~9 j.c 9d~9 j.c 9d~9 236bb 236bbb is so popular is because it does fairly good damage while being fairly easy to execute.

If you want to maximize damage and drive usage at the same time you have to include the ~a cancels (and ~c cancels used as well, but they're not used as often as the ~a ones). The ~a cancel (and the ~c cancel as well) is what usually allows Tao to alter her position during the combo when facing the opponent, allowing her to make use of as many drive attacks as possible. For instance:

5b->3c->(5d~6->j.c)->5d~a->9d->9d->236bb->236bbbb

In this combo you use all four possible horizontal drives (5d), and by ~a canceling the last one Tao slightly falls below the opponent in order to follow with her vertical drives (she can only do two of them in this combo and then she has to follow with a 236bb->236bbbb else the opponent will tech).

An other example of maximizing the drive usage is with an anti-air combo:

2d->(j.5d~6->j.C)x4->j.5d~a->8d~6->8d~6->j.C(or 9d, it's not visible anymore on screen)->236bb->236bbbb

Again, you use four horizontal drives, and three vertical ones thanks to the ~a cancel that shifted Tao's position during the combo.

The ~c cancel works in a similar way except that it shifts Tao slightly above, so when you input that you're usually doing it so that you can follow up either with an other 5d in the air (in case the opponent would happen to be above you, the ~c cancel will align Tao at the same height) or in case you want to use a j.2d drive.

You can find an other example of maximizing the drive usage in this combo video that has been recently posted: At 01:20 the combo

5b->6a(1)->j.5d~b->taunt->236a->2d~6->j.2d~c->j.2d~a->9d->236bb->j.c->9d->236bbbb

Notice how the ~c cancel is used to follow up with an other j.2d, and how the ~a cancel is used to move Tao below in order to do a 9d. There are plenty of other examples in that vid that show you how to creatively make full us of all her drive attacks in combo string by using the ~a and ~c cancels.

However as I said earlier, as creative and as useful they may be, the 9d->j.c loop is usually preferred since it's easier to pull off. The reason is that all these ~a and ~c combos are very character specific (reason: opponent's hitbox size, how fast they fall) while the 9d->j.c loop (or the 5d~6->j.c) is pretty much universal. The reason you see Taunt combos used is because thanks to the Taunt's proration they can still land great damage with the normal drive->j.c loop rather than trying to be fancy with the ~a and ~c cancels. It's all part of the whole discussion about reducing the risks while maximizing the rewards. The more drive cancels you use the more harder and character specific the combo will be. Sure you'll land more drive attacks in the combo, but is it worthy to risk to accidentally whiff a cancel when you have a safer way (see Taunt combos, or 6c combos) to deal good damage?

I hope this answered a bit of your question this time.

The third question wasn't about whiffing the taunt because it was too slow, but because as I go through them with my b cancel I end up directly beneath them and as they fly over to the other side my taunt gets crossed up. Is there any video of this combo?

2:09

It's not the same combo starter but the execution of the 214d->j.2d~b bit is the same. You want Tao to be above the opponent when inputting the j.2d because that way when she lands after the ~b cancel she'll still be in front and you'll be able to follow up with a Taunt (or 5b, or 5c, whatever). The timing is really tricky thoughf (in fact I rarely used that combo), which is why I suggest doing this instead:

backthrow->214d->j.5d~b->taunt->236a->2d~9->(j.c -> 9d~9)x2->236bb->236bbb

Easier to pull of because in order to do the horizontal 5d~b Tao has to be at the same height as the opponent, hence the timing is certainly easier to nail (specially on character with a mid-size/big hitbox).

[RageBot]

Hmm, I need some advice regarding the 5b-6a(1)-j.2d~b-taunt-214d-j.2d~b-taunt-236a-2d~8...

For some reason, almost everytime I do the 2d, it whiffs the opponent, while sometimes I do manage to hit them, but it seems really random, like it has nothing to do with the timing.

Any help?

[yukichi]

If you are too close to the corner it will likely miss. If you time it too early, you will not be able to connect a second vertical drive in the air. Too late, Tao will go above the opponent during 2d. Try getting it to work on the opponent in their starting position at the start of the match, since that is far enough from the corner for the combo to work. Also I usually try practicing it on Jin, as the other characters feel more lenient when it comes to this combo, aside from Carl.

[Sheriff]

Hey guys, I'm not sure if this has already been posted, but I found a really powerful combo last night in training. I skimmed the thread, but ~30 pages is a lot of stuff to dig through. CH 6c>236cc>3d~3>3d>j.b+c (I hope I typed that out correctly). Essentially, once you launch them with 236cc, you bounce off them twice with 3d and end with the air grab. Does ~4k damage. It also works off of standalone 236cc (which is a little risky as we know) or a 4.b+c>236cc setup but both of those do significantly less damage (around 3k). I've tested it in training with Ragna, Jin, AND Carl (not like we need any more help with him, but hey, a universal combo is pretty nice). I've got aerial recovery set to random and playing around with the settings, it seems like if you get the timing down right, there's not a thing they can do. It's a guaranteed hit if they don't try and tech out. Again, sorry if this is old news, just trying to help.

[Ronove]

@sheriff mixing up throws in the drive loops is something I often try to do atleast once during a match. Good players usually react in time and avoid being thrown, but doing it once (to see if the opponent techs in time from it or if he's sleeping) is always worth it. But, do not use it early in your combos. Try to squeeze as much damage as you can from the normal hits and instead replace part of the 236bbbb ender with a mixup throw for +1k damage (if the opponent fails to tech).

[GreyFlcn]

CH 6c>236cc>3d~3>3d>j.b+c (~4000dmg)

I guess, but why the unconventional drive loop?

For instance, you could just as easily do something like this:

CH 6c, 236cc, 2d~9, j.C, 9D~9, j.C, ..., 236BB, 236BB, B+C

(Followed up with a 2A, 236AA, 2d~9, j.C, 9D~9, j.C (etc etc))

Although I guess the proration would suck at that point.

[Sheriff]

Well, the unconventional drive loop came from my own idiocy actually. For a while I kept reading j.c as Jump Cancel NOT Jump Strong Attack... Since I was retarded and couldn't figure out WHY I couldn't keep my drive loop going upwards, I figured why not try the opposite direction. It ended up working. I finally caught my error in a combo video someone upped in HD (I could see her doing the Jump C attack). I was really disgusted with myself... And yeah Ronove, I get what you're saying about people reacting to the throw and teching out of it, but even without the throw, the combo is still doing about 3k. It also might throw people off since it's (like GreyFLcn said) a fairly unconventional drive loop, people might not know what to expect.

[Ronove]

The point of mixing the throw late is not only for damage purposes, but for knockdown/oki game purposes as well. If you do it early in your combo string and you follow it up with other stuff chances are the enemy will tech in the air. So unless you were aiming for that for a valid reason (like making them air tech for combo reset purposes), it's better to have the throw (or airthrow) mixed up as combo enders since they'll give you a knockdown and will allow you to play your oki game on the ground. The only situation I can think of where one would anticipately mixup a throw/airthrow is versus Tager. Like doing 5b->3c->5d~6->mixup aithrow->vertical drive loop. That will make Tager recover/tech in the air at the end of it (rather than scoring a knockdown on the ground), and since a lot of Tagers love to j.2c while airborne and the enemy is close/beneath you're basically using that mixup to bait that move and punish it with an other combo (I personally bait it like that and since I end up falling on the floor first I punish it with a ch 5c->6c->combo ). But besides certain character specific situations, I'd rather mixup the throw at the end of a combo string rather than doing it earlier.

[GreyFlcn]

Say, what's a good non-taunt way to turn a 214214C into an air combo? I'm finding the 6A I normally use, randomly seems to tech.... which can really suck ;D

[Tao(す)kaka]

<3 this thread, and wanted to say hiya to everyone! Can't wait to take on any of you on in BlazBlue.

[GreyFlcn]

Well, a simple combo point to make 5C against an air opponent can almost always turn into a 6C (wait) 6D[combo] And depending on where the drive lands you can sometimes turn the 6D into two 9D drive combos. Also another fun 6C bait, is that after a Hexaedge, if they don't suspect it, and they tech out really quick. Often you can 6C them from halfway across the screen, for another combo Oh, and 6C -> 214D, BC or 214214C works too :P

[XDest]

3C D~B [hit] 5B 2D~5 6D~6 j.C D~A 9D~9 236BB j.C 9D~9 236BBBB [3799] Works after linking a move beforehand (the taunt 3C combo is very bad with this in my testing, heh). Works on everyone but Jin, Rachel, Carl and Tager I believe. Looks like a good 3800 dmg BnB combo.

[XDest]

Well, a simple combo point to make

5C against an air opponent can almost always turn into a 6C (wait) 6D[combo]

And depending on where the drive lands you can sometimes turn the 6D into two 9D drive combos.

Also another fun 6C bait, is that after a Hexaedge, if they don't suspect it, and they tech out really quick. Often you can 6C them from halfway across the screen, for another combo

Oh, and 6C -> 214D, BC or 214214C works too :P

Why not just do 236CC after the 6C and get 4000+?

[XDest]

3C D~B [hit] 5C 236AA 2D~6 j.C 9D~9 j.C 9D~9 .. 236BB 236BBBB [3783] This one is pretty easy to do too, hm. (Carl + Universal? Combo) 3C D~B [hit] 5C 236AA 2D~6 j.C 9D~9 D~A 9D~9 .. 236BB 236BBBB [3837] Confirmed to be universal! If it isn't linked to anything or you're close enough you can get in a 3rd 236A for a +60 damage increase.

[unkyrona]

I'm actually having an issue with the D~A on when you actually hit it. Do you hit it right as she's hitting the target, or right before D lands?

[Sileh]

Timing for D~A, D~B, D~C, j.2D~B is all one in the same. You should cancel right as you are hitting the opponent.

[Ronove]

I'm actually having an issue with the D~A on when you actually hit it. Do you hit it right as she's hitting the target, or right before D lands?

After, it's the same timing as the ~b cancel except you have to be more reactive after you pull it off since the ~a cancel animation recovers more quickly than the ~b one (which is why her aerial combos involving ~a cancels aren't as easy as the ~b ones, in my opinion).

On an unrelated note, since I'm compiling a new combo thread, I've noticed that we kind of lack a good list of anti-air combos (from all kind of starters, 2d, j.5d, j.c and so on). I have a couple of them but it wouldn't hurt if you guys could share yours here, the more of them we gather the more complete the new thread will be. Right now I think not a lot of Tao players (myself included) capitalize a lot on anti-air hits, while I realized that in certain situations (like a CH 2d) you can really do some nice heavy damage.

[XDest]

CH j.D~B [hit] taunt 214D 2D~B [hit] taunt 236CC 2D~6 j.C 9D~9 236BBBB 2D~6 [4991]

[Sileh]

Hey Ronove, you think you can create a new thread/merge a thread about block strings as well? I've come up with a few, but I don't see any place which I could compile some. To some people it's sort of a no brainer, but it would be nice to get what works and what is questionable on paper. Taoftw already has her mixups on first page of the BnB's but this is a little different.

[Ronove]

You should ask TaoFTW about it, I could try to incorporate them in the new combo thread as a separate section but hear his opinion first. :X

[RageBot]

Whenever I try to do the following combo:

5b -> 6a x1 -> JC -> j.2d~b -> Taunt -> 214d -> j.2d~b -> 5c -> 2d~6 -> j.c -> 8d~6 -> j.236bb -> j.c -> 8d~6 -> j.c -> 8d~6 -> j.236bb -> j.236bbbb

The bolded part comes out as a regular 6D~6, and not 8D.

Any help? I know I press the buttons right.