[Xrd] Ramlethal vs Sol

[Sakaku]

Discuss the matchup here.

[Killey]

 

Summary

Sol is probably an even match up for Ramlethal to maybe in Sol's favor. The neutral game is difficult to play against Sol because his normals and specials have interesting interactions against Ramlethal's that you have to be aware of. His movement speed allows him to close the distance on Ramlethal fairly quickly so understanding spacing is important especially when playing neutral with swords deployed. His reversal options will beat several of Ramlethal's oki set ups forcing you to use specific reversal safe oki, which limits variance in oki and pressure. His pressure and mix up game is straight forward but effective since it leaves him at high frame advantage making it tough to find spots to reset to neutral. It's very easy for Sol to crank up your RISC gauge and then land a command grab or frame trap into a huge counter hit combo. Sol's damage output is also fairly high so you need to match his damage out as well if you want to win this match up at a high level. Sol's the definition of middle weight so all of Ramlethal's max damage combo options will work on Sol ie. double Daruo combos, IAD loops, etc...

 

Gameplan

Neutral game:
The round starter is in Sol's favor because his far S is faster than yours but he can also use 2D to low profile it or Grand Viper to low profile and beat it. Your best bet at round start is to play defensive and crouch block, instant air dash back, jump back, or jump forward P. It's risky to try and challenge Sol at round start especially if you haven't gotten a feel for your opponents play style.

 

The neutral game is tricky against Sol because his normals and specials have interesting interactions with Ramlethal's normals. Your far S out ranges his and can be used to whiff punish his far S. Sol's 2D low profiles far S but this has to be done as a read on their part and not in reaction to far S. If you're over using far S then you can expect the Sol player to use 2D liberally to low profile it. 2D will also low profile Cassius and if done close enough will counter hit you. The best counter action to this is to just wait and let them whiff 2D and then whiff punish with far S after wards. 2D leaves Sol in a crouching state so you'll get a far S xx Daruo starter as your whiff punish. Sol's 6P has upper body invincibility during start up and then above knee invulnerability shortly after wards which can be used to counter poke your far S. It's harder to time on their part but it's something additional they can use during the neutral game. 

 

Sol's special moves plays a role in his neutral game though some have more risk than reward. The majority of Sol's special movies can be countered in some way.

• Grand Viper - Hits low and low profiles far S. Since it travels forward it'll punish your far S so this is something you have to be aware of this. It's not something you'll see too often with good Sol players because the risk/reward is stacked against their favor but against low level Sol's this is something they'll just throw out hoping for the best. There's nothing major you can do to really bait this so if you're playing defensive block low and punish the recovery hard.
• Riot Stomp - It can be used during neutral to cause your far S to whiff but it won't whiff punish far S. Again, not something you'll see too often from competent Sol players but with low level players you'll see this get thrown out often. It hits high, safe on block because it leaves him air borne with all of his air options intact. If you see Riot Stomp you can flat out counter it with 6P on reaction and you should be doing this against low level Sol players consistently because that's free damage for you.
• Bandit Bringer - Hits high and can be used to go over Ramlethal's f.S. The risk is some what low for Sol since it leaves him neutral on block but the rewards are high if it lands or counter hits. If Sol does raw Bandit Bringer during neutral you can counter it with j.P, Blitz Shield, air throw, chicken block throw on landing, instant block throw, instant block 5P.  
• Fafnir - Fairly strong neutral tool for Sol because it moves him forward, has a large hit box, and leaves him +4 on block. It's an all purpose neutral tool which allows him to poke, counter poke, whiff punish, catch back dashes, etc... It allows Sol to start offensive pressure if blocked and high rewards if it hits or counter his. He can't special cancel to it so he has throw it out raw. You can counter poke it with far S and get a counter hit starter but there's definitely some risks to trying that. It's also a good frame trap tool after blocked gun flames, kudakero, and even from fafnir itself.  

You generally want to stay in the air against Sol due to the above reasons. It's just really difficult to play a solid ground game against Sol due to his various options to beat your best pokes. Ramlethal's j.P is still really good in this match up since it will contest all of Sol's jumping options; however, Sol's j.P is just as fast as her j.P so you may see it clash on multiple occasions. If you end up in a j.P clash war you'll clash all the way down but the Sol player can go for a reversal Volcanic Viper after a clash. Ramlethal's j.HS is also good in this match up and a CH can lead into IAD loops if you're close enough to the corner. Sol's j.HS has a really good hit box on it and hits twice. If he IADs and does an early j.HS it'll actually beat your 6P anti-air so you'll have to use sword equipped 2S/HS or 5HS to anti-air it. You can also IB both hits of the early IAD j.HS and throw him on his landing. Depending on the range there's enough time to anti-air IAD j.HS on reaction but the timing is tighter in comparison to 6P. Sol can fish for these anti-air attempts with double jumps into Kudakero (dive kick) to either counter it or force offense since it's +2 on block.

 

If you have the swords equipped, Sol can use Gun Flame a bit more freely to control space. Once the swords are deployed they have to stop running Gun Flame at a distance because 6S/HS are fast ways to land a counter hit. If you're close enough you can Daruo after the counter hit and convert from it. If you're playing neutral with the swords deployed, Sol will try to chase you down with super jump j.P, j.HS, air throw, or 5K as your falling. 5K in general is really good for Sol since it's good at tech trapping, frame trapping, catching back dashes, or jumps out of command grabs.[/collapse]

 

Offense:
[collapse]In this match up you want to play solid neutral and try to convert off of stray hits and push towards the corner like usual. However, when running oki from any point on screen you really have to be aware of reversal Volcanic Viper or Grand Viper, as it'll beat the majority of your oki set ups and can be used in between sword pressure strings. It really limits the type of oki set ups you can run on Sol but there are several reversal safe oki options you can run.

 

From mid-screen, after a 2KK or throw knock down a 6HS, 6K/2K/2D set up is not reversal safe against Sol. You can deploy the HS sword and then wait to bait out the reversal. Sometimes Sol's will do the reversal Volcanic Viper even if they know you're baiting the VV because the 6HS will hit them in the air and the post combo conversion can be minor in comparison to failing to block the mix up. If they know you're baiting the reversal they can back dash and avoid the sword altogether. The alternative mid-screen oki set up off of 2KK or throw knockdown that's reversal safe is with the S sword equipped you perform an immediate IAD past your opponent then do j.6S just as you pass over their knock down body. The sword deploy kills your air dash momentum and then you fall immediately at the spot you deployed the sword. While you're falling you do a j.K. This is a cross up/over set up so if you time this correctly the opponent has to manually correct their VV motion and even if they get the reversal timing it's still a safe jump and you'll block the VV. You might not want to run this set up if you've got Sol near the corner, as you don't want to lose positional advantage.

 

The concept for running corner sword oki on Sol is to use a meaty sword deploy, deploy the second sword, wait to see if they did a reversal, then run a mix up during the cover of the second sword if they didn't reversal. If they reversal Volcanic Viper or Grand Viper it should whiff, one of the two swords will hit Sol, and then you can convert off of the stray hit. If you do block the reversal you can punish the recovery but try to avoid spacing yourself to block the reversal if they have 50%+ meter as they can RC it and start offensive pressure. The other method to run sword oki is to deploy both swords, jump towards Sol, and faultless defense as you're falling. You'll chicken block reversal Volcanic Viper and then you can punish the recovery. If they don't reversal Volcanic Viper you can attempt a mix up by either doing j.K or empty jump 2D.

Defense:
Sol usually end his combo's in either 2D, Bandit Revolver, Volcanic Viper, or Grand Viper as these moves cause knockdowns and allow him to set up the following mix up options:

• 2K OTG, Gun Flame - This creates a meaty Gun Flame that leaves Sol at frame advantage but limits what they can do after wards. This is where the opponent will usually go for a frame trap with f.S, 6HS, or Fafnir. 
• (2K OTG) YRC Gun Flame - This gives Sol the same meaty Gun Flame but now the opponent has free movement after wards to run the same mix ups off of the initial set up. The opponent can also go for a tick command grab or just run up 5D.
• Neutral j.P (whiff), late air dash j.P, j.K, j.D or j.S, j.HS - The late air dash makes people want to block low because the timing of the jump makes you think of an empty jump. If you crouch block you'll get tagged by the jumping normals. This is a standard mix up often seen in other Arc System Work fighters. You can wake up 6P which will beat late air dash j.S but lose to the late air dash j.P (depends on their timing of the j.P). You can wake up Blitz Shield to beat both options. 
• Forward j.P (whiff), j.S - It's a safe jump against reversals but can be Blitz Shield. 
• Forward/Neutral j.P (whiff), empty jump 2K/2D - Sol conditions you with his safe jump or late air dash options and then goes low instead. It's not hard to react to but it's a tactic used to counter wake up 6P or Blitz Shield against his other oki options. You can reversal throw this option but you need to do it fast enough.
• j.S, dj.P/S - A fuzzy guard set up and no real way to properly defend against this given all of his other options. It's tough to time for the Sol player so you might not see this set up often. 

Sol's up close pressure will always contain the threat of a command grab and you have limited options against this pressure. The typical command grab escapes is to interrupt with 5P, 2P, 2K or back dash/jump out to make the command grab whiff. It's obviously not that easy because the Sol player can start frame trapping instead with dash 5K, c.S, 6P, etc... to catch the interrupt attempts while dash 5K will catch back dashes or jumps. Faultless defense can be used against the tick command grab set ups to try and push Sol out of range to hopefully give you enough room to reset to neutral. Sol can combat this by going for frame traps, or continuous dash 2P to close the distance and then eventually go for the command grab.

 

Typical block strings you might see are 5K (1), c.S, 2S, (f.S), 6HS/2D/Bandit Revolver/Gun Flame. If you IB the 2S you can back dash out of his 6HS, 2D, or Gun Flame but Bandit Bringer will catch the back dash. If you back dash and avoid a 6HS you can Daruo to whiff punish it. If the opponent ops for f.S/2D xx Bandit Revolver you can IB f.S/2D and then either Blitz Shield the Bandit Revolver or beat it with j.P. Whenever you Blitz Shield Bandit Revolver or Bandit Bringer you have enough time to dash behind them for the punish since their stuck in the stun state until they land. This also allows you to avoid getting counter Blitz Shield if they have 25%+ meter. Other block strings can also involve YRC Gun Flame but unless done at point blank you can Blitz Shield the Gun Flame and have 11f of invincibility after wards. If the Sol player pushes offense with dash pressure or jump pressure it should whiff with your 11f of invincibility post Blitz Shield and then you can whiff punish or throw after wards.

 

The match up dramatically changes when Sol activates Dragon Install as it increases his damage output, makes his movement faster, the start up of his normals/specials faster, and leaves him + on block on all of his normals and the majority of his specials. You really don't want to challenge Sol during Dragon Install nor do you want to block any of his attacks on the ground due to the huge frame advantage he gets. It's really easy for him to go for frame traps or tick command grabs and make a come back from there. The chip damage off of his specials and over drives are pretty significant as well so he can go for chip damage kills if you're low on health and meter to FD. Try to stick to the air as much as possible to out last the Dragon Install and then punish the huge recovery when Dragon Install runs out. 

 

When looking to dead angle out of Sol's pressure keep an eye on his gatling string and his meter. Sol can use 2D to low profile the dead angle and then punish heavily after wards. Alternatively, if he has 50%+ meter he can cancel into his Tyrant Rave Overdrive to use the invincibility frames to go through and punish the dead angle.

 

Character Specifics

Wake-up Timing:

• 25f face-up
• 21f face-down

Reversal Safe Oki:

 

Midscreen:

 

Setup: 2KK > Instant Air Dash > j.6S > j.K

Sword(s): S Sword Equipped

Info: Safe cross-up setup. Opponent has to manually correct their DP motion as well.

Reference: Video

 

Setup: 2KK > j.6S > j.K

Sword(s): S Sword Equipped

Info: Normal jump and j.6S at the peak of the jump then time a deep j.K.

Reference: Video

 

Corner:

 

Setup: Combo ending in j.8D knockdown > 6HS > j.2S

Sword(s): HS sword deployed outside of the corner

Info: Meaty 6HS set up against Sol.

 

Setup: Combo ending in j.8D knockdown > immediate neutral j.2HS > j.2S

Sword(s): HS sword deployed in the corner

Info: Meaty 2HS set up against Sol.

 

Setup: 2D > jc7 > delay j.2HS, airdash, delay j.K

Sword(s): HS sword deployed in the corner

Info: Corner safe jump. 

Refernce: Video

 

Setup: Throw > j.2HS > j.K

Sword(s): HS sword deployed in the corner

Info: Neutral jump and j.2HS at the peak of the jump then time a deep j.K

Reference: Video

 

Setup: 5K4K > dash 9j.6S > j.K

Swords: S sword equipped.

Info: Safe cross-up setup. The j.6S after the dash forward jump needs to be at the peak of the jump then time a deep j.K.

Reference: Video

 

Lows:

• 2K - 6f start up, -1 on block
• 2D - 7f start up, -6 on block
• Grand Viper - 17f start up, -56 on block

Overheads:

• 5D - 24f start up, -13f on block
• Bandit Bringer - 32f start up, 0 on block
• Riot Stomp - 10f after reaching the wall, +4 on block, leaves Sol air borne with all air options intact

[Complexity]

As long as you don't let Sol run behind you and 5k while you are jumping, the matchup shouldn't be too problematic. Also if he ever uses DI I would say chuck both your swords out and hide behind Trance when his DI is ending. Even if the Trance misses you are well protected and you can punish him after with a raw Daruo.

[Killey]

The match up is a lot more difficult then "not letting Sol run behind you and 5K while you're jumping." Against low level Sol's it's pretty easy to keep them contained and run your offense but against competent Sol players it gets harder than that. Watching Karinchou, Batako, and a few other Japanese Ramlethal players and they struggle with aspects of the Sol match up that I've mentioned.

 

Hiding behind Toranshi against DI isn't a terrible idea but to make it air tight it requires you to lock him down first or get him into a block string to cancel into Toranshi, and there's risk involved with that. People who understand how to maneuver around the swords won't get easily locked down by a random Toranshi but I'm not implying that's what you were saying.

 

I've forgot to mention a few of the actual reversal safe corner oki as well so I'll have to update that post at a later time.

[Complexity]

I mean do random Trance when Sol's DI is ending and run inside it so he can't hit you.

[hypersonic]

A couple of safejumps against Sol

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUxfd5zPP4A

 

Also Bandit Revolver durIng a blockstring is punishable before the hammer kick.

At mid and far range with f.S(sword equipped) you can get a counterhit and punish with IAD jK>jS>J8D loop for massive damage and corner carry.Close 5S works too.

At mid range and close range you can punish with 4P or 5P into PK>dash PK>dash PK>PPP,or PK>dash PK>c5S>J8D.Both lead into knockdown.

You can also punish the hammer kick in the 2hit version(where Sol does the knee before the hammer kick) with 4P or 5P,but it's somewhat tighter.It gets a lot easier if you instant block the knee part though.

 

Sometimes going for mixups or oki that aren't safe is not that bad imo,since the only thing that Sol can do after Volcanic Viper(especially if he doesn't have meter for RC)is the followup that gives him knockdown.Sol's oki is pretty basic and generally not that difficult to block.So the risk/reward situation favours Ramlethal here,since if they don't block your mixup,this can lead into big damage and then into oki.

[Killey]

The mid range punish sounds like you have to make a hard read and throw far S out otherwise if they cancel into gun flame you get counter hit and they get a fat combo if you're close to the corner.

[hypersonic]

Far 5S against Bandit Revolver is more of a reaction than read i would say.You react during the airborne frames of the move.If you react late c.5S comes out and can punish with the same way as with far 5S.If you react even later c.5S comes out, you both get a counterhit,but Sol is in a juggle state and you have time to go for dash PK combination combo instead.If you delay your 5S even more,Sol gets a counterhit.If he counterhits you crouching he can link into any normal into full combo>knockdown.If he counterhits you standing he can't link into anything though.If you instant block the last hit of Bandit Revolver,you can punish with 4P>1K>2KK knockdown and go for a safejump from there.Same goes for Bandit Bringer.

From what i've seen ,these moves aren't used that much in jp high level play during blockstrings.I think it's important in this matchup to pay attention to any patterns that the Sol player may use during blockstrings.Being able to react and punish stuff with normals,Blitz Shield,IADs,instant blocks is significant in this matchup or else you are stuck in stupid Sol rushdown pressure.