[CT-CSE] Critique my Jin Thread. Post videos of yourself playing and get advice

[vanfleihight]

• Optimize your combos. There were a lot of instances of unnecessary meter usage or strange variations that made the combo drop early or not get as much damage.
  
• Work on hit confirming your attacks instead of autopiloting. There were a few times where you got a CH 6B and autopiloted into 2A, losing a potential 4k in damage in the process.
  
• This is more of an "online sucks" thing: Simplify some combos in order to make sure they land 100% of the time. For example, after a 2D freeze you can simply 6B and go straight into sekkajin instead of risking dropping the dash 5B afterward and getting no damage at all.
  
• Pay attention to what item Platinum has equipped so you have an idea of how she will approach/defend against you. The fact that she can't have access to everything at the same time lets you know what you can or can't do against her.
  
• Stop doing random ice cars.
  

[Jyosua]

Those strange combos are probably either because I haven't memorized the optimal combo yet, or because I used 214D. 6\ CH isn't something I get very often, so I haven't really had enough chances to start confirming it yet. I also am not sure I've memorized the proper combo for that yet.

Also yes on the last two things. I just gotta try harder at both if those.

[Moy_X7]

[*]This is more of an "online sucks" thing: Simplify some combos in order to make sure they land 100% of the time. For example, after a 2D freeze you can simply 6B and go straight into sekkajin instead of risking dropping the dash 5B afterward and getting no damage at all.

Heheh, if I can do multiple 22C combos on netplay then Jyo should be able to do anything Jin has. Our connections is hella smooth and that's why I enjoying using Plat against him.

[Jyosua]

Heheh, if I can do multiple 22C combos on netplay then Jyo should be able to do anything Jin has. Our connections is hella smooth and that's why I enjoying using Plat against him.

I'll still have a little trouble with some stuff, but for the most part anything /should/ work. It's more than likely on our connection that I just got nervous and fucked up.

[WakeUpDP]

Sup Jyosua.

Apart from what was mentioned, some more things to note is that you need some more IAD j.236D which would make a change from the J.2C. You used it once but only when Moy wasn't in any pressure. To be honest, I forget it all the time too but it's a classic.

After 6B and the opponent is still crouched, you might want to do like the Jin from yesterday and rapid into airdash 2C then confirm into j.D or go low/grab. It uses 50 heat but it's an other trick to pull out against patient people, it is pretty fast but its expensive, might give you nothing for it but at least it's relatively safe lol.

Take with a grain of salt the 6B stuff since I don't use it personally but it worked nicely when he did it yesterday.

Anyways, the easier said than done part: Try to put different mixups and gimmicks in your game to create openings and break up pressure habits/redundancy.

Maybe something like 2A x n, 5A, 2A, 6A would break habit the usual 5A > Grab, and 2A > 6A is fast and they'll be processing the thought that they have to be careful to tech the grab after the 5A.

I am rambling about this but mixups, gimmicks and resets are also something I have to work on lol , the integration of these tactics is taking a while to get in.

Edit: Also careful about trying to punish the heart car because every single time you blocked it. Moy had 50 heat, RC and countered you.

[Jyosua]

Sup Jyosua.

Apart from what was mentioned, some more things to note is that you need some more IAD j.236D which would make a change from the J.2C. You used it once but only when Moy wasn't in any pressure. To be honest, I forget it all the time too but it's a classic.

After 6B and the opponent is still crouched, you might want to do like the Jin from yesterday and rapid into airdash 2C then confirm into j.D or go low/grab. It uses 50 heat but it's an other trick to pull out against patient people, it is pretty fast but its expensive, might give you nothing for it but at least it's relatively safe lol.

Take with a grain of salt the 6B stuff since I don't use it personally but it worked nicely when he did it yesterday.

Anyways, the easier said than done part: Try to put different mixups and gimmicks in your game to create openings and break up pressure habits/redundancy.

Maybe something like 2A x n, 5A, 2A, 6A would break habit the usual 5A > Grab, and 2A > 6A is fast and they'll be processing the thought that they have to be careful to tech the grab after the 5A.

I am rambling about this but mixups, gimmicks and resets are also something I have to work on lol , the integration of these tactics is taking a while to get in.

Edit: Also careful about trying to punish the heart car because every single time you blocked it. Moy had 50 heat, RC and countered you.

I have trouble doing IAD j.236D reliably. I did it during a tournament and it worked great, and I do it so little that it's almost a free combo every time I do use it.

Yeah 6B rapid tactics are something I'm aware of, but don't use a whole lot. I probably should. There's a lot of shit I need to work into my pressure, but it's taking a while to get accustomed to.

[-Kid]

Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T551SAIaI5E

[Jyosua]

Optimize your combos and bait DPs. A note about Tsubaki's DP: Certain versions of them can be avoided or punished with a counterhit by a slightly meaty 6B. I haven't gone to the lab to figure out which ones (it might be all of them, but I seem to think that it's only 2 or 3 of the versions), but I've hit many a tsubaki this way. Better yet, just use a safe jump j.2C in the corner. Your pressure seems good, but it also seems like you have more patience than the average Jin player and don't try to get out of other people's pressure much. XD

[Moy_X7]

> Don't try to jump out of Tsubaki's jab pressure, you'll get tagged. IB Barrier to push her out and jump out when the opportunity presents itself. That or just IB > DP.

> When Tsubaki "drops" a combo with 22B/22C, get ready to wake-up DP or just block. That's a frame trap of sorts. They create the illusion of dropping a combo, baiting you into pushing a button and getting hit by 5A: www.youtube.com/watch?v=T551SAIaI5E#t=3m33s

> Tech the pink throws lol

> You could have gotten a lot more damage off that 6A RC in the corner had you used the standard DP loop route.

That's what I saw from the first match, I'll watch the rest later and give you more feedback.

Edit:

Your pressure seems good, but it also seems like you have more patience than the average Jin player and don't try to get out of other people's pressure much. XD

You have to respect Tsubaki's pressure. Only push buttons when you absolutely know that you'll win. Knowing Tsubaki frame data helps.

[-Kid]

Thanks guys a appreciate the feedback. Yeah i tend not to push buttons when Tsubaki is using 5A/2A pressure as i'll just find myself getting hit, and combo optimization is something i will work on real soon.

> Tech the pink throws lol

My reactions were REALLY off that day :/

[xlolxlolx]

you did alot of funky shit like 2c on his wakeup and weird combo routes that looked improvised

@jyo hes playing smart, if you know how to block then youre getting free meter by ibing and they put themselves at higher risk the longer they continue their blockstring

[-Kid]

you did alot of funky shit like 2c on his wakeup and weird combo routes that looked improvised

Lol, Re-watching the video, i'm now also questioning wth kinda combos I was doing too to be honest. So i agree xD

[Jyosua]

Oh, I wasn't saying he should mash or try to get out more often. I was just noting how much patience he had. XD I respect anyone who has the patience to instant block. As soon as I try that shit, I stop paying attention to overheads. :/

As far as the combos, you definitely had some strange shit going on there. O_o

[eQualz]

I wouldn't worry about combos at this point. I'm not saying this because I know you can do them but rather I think Jin is all about freestyle and you know how I play XD

Also, I want to play offline too ;_;

[-Kid]

Thanks everyone, I'll heed all the advice. I definitely know the combos, but just didn't do them for some reason.

@eQualz. Come to England so that you can body most of the people here, and have only GGs with like 4-5 people.

[NeoGio0o]

@Kid- The amount of time you two have played against each other is quite obvious and you need to add fresh content to your game in order to win. When you have 100 heat, a gold burst AND a round there is no reason you should be blocking for that long, DP RC, wake up gold burst, random yomi mash, back dash, CA, etc. are all your friends. Probably your biggest mistake was blowing your meter to frame trap a player that barely mashes and being way too safe in your block strings as a whole.

Finally combos are important because Jin combos are hype!!!

Damn hopefully I get accepted to the study abroad program during CP because I want to play against UK players. and teach you the American mash =/

[mAc Chaos]

> "@Kid- The amount of time you two have played against each other is quite obvious"

That's interesting. How can you tell that? Just because the other guy is ready for his stuff? Not that I watched the video yet so maybe it's obvious.

[NeoGio0o]

> "@Kid- The amount of time you two have played against each other is quite obvious"

That's interesting. How can you tell that? Just because the other guy is ready for his stuff? Not that I watched the video yet so maybe it's obvious.

That does play a factor and it is the easiest thing to point out, but the way the way they move, the random pauses they have throughout the match, the choice of super safe blockstrings, the places the players choose to hit buttons, the sheer amount of respect they have for one another and the way both players wait awhile before going for actual mix up shows that they have history.

When it comes to actually giving another player advice about their play you have to take these things into consideration because you need to be able to beat both the character and the player.

[Kiba]

Well, we are brothers.

Great observation there Gio.

[Jyosua]

Yo when I point out the extremely long blocking I get called out, but when NeoGio0o does nobody says anything. Well played gentleman, well played.

[Moy_X7]

You have to take into account that Gio is one of the stronger Tao players (more like one of the only 2 Taos in NA lol). He plays Tao, so he had to learn when and how to mash out of pressure.

Jin's backdash is horrible though, you're better off just doing IB Barrier to push Tsubaki out and jump out or IB > DP. Jin doesn't have to mash jabs/5B to get out of pressure since he has the luxury of IB > reversal. Then again, Tsubaki can just jump cancel a bunch of crap and bait it so I guess throwing out an IB 5A/5B from time to time wouldn't be a horribly bad idea.

I personally don't mind blocking Tsubaki and build meter with IBs as long as I need to. She can't really open you up unless she has stocks for her UB setups. When I block Tsubaki it's like I'm blocking Jin, I have nothing to worry about as long as they don't have meter/stocks.

Like here, I blocked her for like 6 seconds straight: www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLcRrGFbZMk#t=1m47s

I thought I had pushed her out with Barrier so I tried to jump out and I got tagged because I let go off my Barrier lol.

[Starlight777]

So does TK Hizangeki look any good as an overhead? I need to know if Jin still has terrible mix-up.

Or did they finally make 6A a better overhead?

[Moy_X7]

TK Hizangeki looks like a pretty decent OH. It leads to 4K+ in the corner lol. 6A is supposedly more than +1 on hit and it builds 5 Heat alone. It won't be a total waste to throw those out during pressure anymore.

[Ayashii]

So does TK Hizangeki look any good as an overhead? I need to know if Jin still has terrible mix-up.

Or did they finally make 6A a better overhead?

It won't matter since people can't even block 6A lol

Also Kisaragi time can occur from TK Hizangeki into 4K damage, Jin swag

[NeoGio0o]

Yo when I point out the extremely long blocking I get called out, but when NeoGio0o does nobody says anything. Well played gentleman, well played.

@Jyosua: The difference is in the state bro NYC da bes, and the fact that I'm just overall more credible. Finally the way I word things is orgasmic and just too good to call free.

@Moy: His backdash is good enough to avoid being grabbed and as you already stated IB reversal isn't that good due to the amount of normals Tsubaki has that can be jump canceled. The point I was trying to make wasn't about blocking vs mashing it was more along the lines of blocking without purpose. If your up a round, have a gold burst, have 100 heat and is really just sitting there blocking for long periods of time then your some new type of ass.

Finally I never learned how to mash I just do it because I know people are free and don't know blockstrings =/