Help Me Not Suck At: Guilty Gear Xrd

[StrikeBlade]

Yo! My name is Strike, and I play a lot of fighting games pretty casually. I play Street Fighter and BlazBlue and P4U for funsies with pals. I'm a weird kind of guy who buys these games so he can appreciate how cool the characters are and so he can learn about the story and world surrounding them. That said, I'm also really into the competitive aspect of Super Smash Bros, and it's probably the "Fighting Game" I'm best at. I played BlazBlue as my first Aksys fighting game, and I quite liked it, and bought GGXXAC+ after. I now own that game twice, and now that Guilty Gear XRD is out, I think its high time I actually learned how these games work, and specifically got really good at Guilty Gear Xrd. 

I'm sure there are a lot of help threads on this site already, and I'll take a look at them, but I really wanted to get specific advice about my situation and not just general advice.

I can provide video capture of my matches and Training if need be-- With Commentary even!

I'm pretty familiar with general fighting game terminology. I know what Anti Airs are, and what Punishes are and what an OTW or OTG is.I know generally what spacing and zoning are, and even though I have to look at my numpad first, if you tell me to do a 6S I'll know what you're talking about.I'm also able to do special move inputs pretty effectively, not that GG's are too complex. I can perform every one of Sol Badguy's moves, so you do not need to teach me about how to perform a       +  or even a
       +  because I can probably do them.

I've played Xrd since its release day, and I think I'm kind of getting the hang of Sol. I think I want to play Potemkin and Sin on the side, but Sol seems the most fun to me to play since he has so many options. I've learned everything I know by messing around in Training Mode, and by completing about 30 or so of Sol's Challenges. So I can do some 8-11 Beat combos, however I can only do them fairly situationally, because I need a Counter Hit 2HS, or a succesful Wild Throw or Riot Stamp for them to work. I use Ground Viper a lot, probably more than I should.

I own a Fightstick, but it's kinda hard to use. I've since opted to get a little Madcatz Fightpad to use, and I'm most comfortable with that at the moment, but I figure if it's really a nessecary shift to the stick it'll at least help me make the transition because the button layout is pretty much the exact same. The only issue is that on moves like Ground Viper, or on Dizzy Statuses, wiggling the stick back and fourth is impossible. I can never get those extra hits on my GVs with the pad no matter how hard I try.

I'm Level 3 I believe in Ranked, so I've had some success online,but I've obviously also had my share of losses. One particularly embarrassing one was a Potemkin who Dizzied me and then DESTROYED me while I was trying to recover, which actually made me buy my Fightstick right then and there, because of the imprecise and slippery nature of a normal PS3 controller.

I'm not really sure what to ask about right now, and I'll probably be recording some online matches for you guys to watch, since you'll probably need to see them anyway. I guess I mostly wanted to say where I stood  in terms of fighting games in general and if there's any advice you can give me. I'd be more than happy to give my PSN Name and my Skype to anyone who wants to school me on this game.


 

[APinkBuny]

The best place to get this kind of character specific advice is in your character forums. There should be a Video Crit thread post your match or a few matches up and they can assist you.

[Kikuichimonji]

Step one: learn BnB combos. With Sol, start with something like dashing 5K 2S 2D Bandit Revolver. Learn to hit confirm before the 2D.

Next, learn a midscreen juggle. Sol's basic juggle combo is very simple and straightforward and shows up all the time in different combos. The best way to learn his BNB is to practice it off Wild Throw, his command grab. The basic BNB is WT > 2HS (jump cancel) > j.S (double jump cancel) > j.S j.HS > HS Volcanic Viper > Knockdown

Eventually you'll want to learn his corner combos, and there's lots of little things to learn as far as starters for combos, but those two are enough to get going. Also, I cannot stress how helpful Sol's combo Challenge Mode is. It's an amazing learning tool and starting point.

As for actually playing Sol at neutral, learn how to use far S and 2D into Gunflame, his fireball. Gunflame is super amazing and makes Sol frustrating to fight against because he gets pressure and chip damage on block through Gunflame. In the air, j.P and j.HS are super strong and can lead into knockdowns by comboing into his air HS Volcanic Viper > Knockdown.

Sol's best anti airs are dashing 5K, 6P, and 2HS.

[StrikeBlade]

Yeah, my primary way of learning how to play the characters I'm interested in has so far been the Challenge Mode. I get stuck around Challenge 31 with Sol, and I imagine that's actually the most important one since it's the thing this whole site is named after.

Really? 6P works as an Anti-Air? 

[Kikuichimonji]

Yeah, my primary way of learning how to play the characters I'm interested in has so far been the Challenge Mode. I get stuck around Challenge 31 with Sol, and I imagine that's actually the most important one since it's the thing this whole site is named after.

Really? 6P works as an Anti-Air? 

You have to do it super late, but it's highly rewarding because on CH midscreen you gatling 6P to 2S. 2S will whiff if they get hit, and you dash up 5K 2HS > j.S (jc) > j.S j.HS and get about 175 damage off of it.

 

6P is also a super strong dumb poke because of the above.

 

As for Dustloop, you have to do the first j.D immediately after jumping. Besides that, it's just a timing you learn and never really drop after that.

[StrikeBlade]

You mention 175 Damage. Am I correct in assuming that every character has 420 Health based on the IK damage? If so that means 175 health is getting on a 50% combo right?

[Kikuichimonji]

You mention 175 Damage. Am I correct in assuming that every character has 420 Health based on the IK damage? If so that means 175 health is getting on a 50% combo right?

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Damage_(GGXRD)#Guts_and_Defense_Ratings

[StrikeBlade]

Whoa, there's a lot more to this game than I thought.

I'm a little confused about how it works though. Am I correct in assuming that the characters have lower defense the lower their Health is?

Also, could you explain the RISC system? The tutorial explains it but I'm still a little confused about that and some other more basic stuff

[Kikuichimonji]

Whoa, there's a lot more to this game than I thought.

I'm a little confused about how it works though. Am I correct in assuming that the characters have lower defense the lower their Health is?

It's actually the opposite. A high Guts rating is good, and a low Defense Modifier is good. Basically, as you take damage, depending on your "Guts" level, you end up taking less damage than you did when you had full life. For example, with Sol, there are combos that do 210 damage, but those won't even kill most characters at 30% life.

Honestly it's all confusing and mathy but really what you should take out from this are "It's a lot harder to take my opponent from 50% to 0% than it is to take him from 100% to 50%" and "Different characters have different amounts of life."

 

Also, could you explain the RISC system? The tutorial explains it but I'm still a little confused about that and some other more basic stuff

The RISC gauge is a way to encourage interaction without forcing a defender to stop blocking. As you block moves without Faultless Defense (aka FD) in Guilty Gear, your pink RISC bar will go up. The more you block, the higher it goes. This is bad for you, because if the opponent does land a hit, damage scaling doesn't take effect until that bar has full drained. That makes combos do a LOT more damage. For example, with the right starter, it's fairly trivial for Sol to literally kill Chipp (a character with terrible Defense) in one combo if his RISC gauge is fully cranked. Guilty Gear doesn't force the defender to ever stop blocking. Perhaps even worse, once the gauge gets past half full, any hit the opponent lands is considered a counter-hit. This often allows them to combo off things that they generally can't - for example, Sol can easily combo off Gunflame on CH.

If you're not blocking, the RISC gauge starts draining slowly.

What you should get out of this is "blocking pressure makes any followup combo the opponent lands do more damage, so playing super defensively will force you into bad situations." Blocking is super good in Guilty Gear, but if your opponent lands a full combo with your RISC gauge high, you'll likely lose most of your life from that one combo. So don't hold down back in the corner for twenty seconds.

Both of these systems are only used to determine damage of moves you do, so understanding Guts, RISC level, and Damage Modifiers won't improve your play much, for example. Your max damage combo is still your max damage combo, but it will do more or less depending on these factors. If it's confusing, don't worry about it.

[StrikeBlade]

Oh, I see. So basically Guts is a bit of a catch-up mechanic where you still have a shot even if you're getting hit alot, and RISC encourages you to man up and really go in deep for those combos rather than wiggling back and fourth and throwing out pokes.

I'm excited to see Xrd at EVO this year, so I can see how the game is played at its highest level.

Honestly I think it might be best to record some matches and show them here, or fight someone here online to see where exactly I can improve.

[StrikeBlade]

you dash up 5K 2HS > j.S (jc) > j.S j.HS and get about 175 damage off of it.

Also, reading this again, it only just now occurs to me that comboing out of my anti-air is an option at all. I always thought of it as more of a defensive "Get away from me!" scenario, but it probably should have been obvious that I could do that.

Timing anti-airs right is a little tricky.

[Flick]

Oh, I see. So basically Guts is a bit of a catch-up mechanic where you still have a shot even if you're getting hit alot, and RISC encourages you to man up and really go in deep for those combos rather than wiggling back and fourth and throwing out pokes.

I'm excited to see Xrd at EVO this year, so I can see how the game is played at its highest level.

Honestly I think it might be best to record some matches and show them here, or fight someone here online to see where exactly I can improve.

EVO is definitely not the highest level of GG's gameplay, just watch Mikado

[StrikeBlade]

EVO is definitely not the highest level of GG's gameplay, just watch Mikado

 

Ehh? But isn't it the biggest fighting game tournament every year? 

[StylisH]

 

Ehh? But isn't it the biggest fighting game tournament every year? 

 

The formats for their sets are not quite long enough.  2 out of 3 in the opinion of many does not determine the better player, and not very many top tier international players travel to EVO.

[Flick]

The formats for their sets are not quite long enough.  2 out of 3 in the opinion of many does not determine the better player, and not very many top tier international players travel to EVO.

"top tier international players" refers to Japanese top players, imo

[StrikeBlade]

I see. Well, still, a higher level than mine, certainly. I'm sure to get something out of it.

[Digital Watches]

I'd honestly say stop learning combos at the point where you have your confirm into an easy knockdown, at least at first.

Play a bunch of matches. Start getting a gameplan down. Play against people you lose to. Figure out why you're losing. Get your nerves of steel. Learn to block. Learn to keep blocking until your chance. Learn to make that chance happen with the other defensive mechanics in the game. Learn to confirm into knockdown. Learn to put pressure on. Learn where and when you can throw. Learn what your buttons do and what buttons they beat. Learn your matchups, at least the ones you have the ability to encounter. Some people take notes.

Then deal with doing damage. I see way too many players who have their training mode stuff down pat and just freeze in matches, because they're spending so much brainpower remembering what they practiced, and being so predictable trying to land their big confirm. I've watched people land a 200+-damage combo into knockdown for ten different confirms in training mode, then bodied them without seeing it happen to me a single time.

If you're new to fighting games, or even Guilty Gear in particular, you need to learn to play before you practice your big rewarding combos. 

[Kikuichimonji]

I'd honestly say stop learning combos at the point where you have your confirm into an easy knockdown, at least at first.

Play a bunch of matches. Start getting a gameplan down. Play against people you lose to. Figure out why you're losing. Get your nerves of steel. Learn to block. Learn to keep blocking until your chance. Learn to make that chance happen with the other defensive mechanics in the game. Learn to confirm into knockdown. Learn to put pressure on. Learn where and when you can throw. Learn what your buttons do and what buttons they beat. Learn your matchups, at least the ones you have the ability to encounter. Some people take notes.

Then deal with doing damage. I see way too many players who have their training mode stuff down pat and just freeze in matches, because they're spending so much brainpower remembering what they practiced, and being so predictable trying to land their big confirm. I've watched people land a 200+-damage combo into knockdown for ten different confirms in training mode, then bodied them without seeing it happen to me a single time.

If you're new to fighting games, or even Guilty Gear in particular, you need to learn to play before you practice your big rewarding combos.

If you can't convert your decisions into damage, then your correct choices matter much less. It doesn't have to be max damage, it doesn't have to be flashy, but it does have to leave an impression.

Learning how to move in Guilty Gear is hard. Learning combos can actually help you understand movement a bit. Looking at how people start combos can help you learn which tools are strong at neutral (Sol 2D) The first thing you'll probably need to learn in matches is defense, but you can't practice that easily on your own and you'll probably be focused on that in match anyway.

[StrikeBlade]

I think the biggest hurdle to jump for me is gonna be hit confirms. I'm actually going to record some matches in a little while and show you how I play, but the hit confirm window is so short that by the time I realize I should have comboed something it's come and gone already.

Basically, I have a lot of trouble with the idea of combos in any fighting game and I thgink it's because I struggle with the ideas of Jump Cancelling and Hit Confirming, and also the fact that I don't really know what moves can link into what.

[StrikeBlade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGvL3E69ssM&feature=youtu.be

Here's a video of my dicking around in Training Mode and failing to do anything of note more or less.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ6qQHw1F4I&feature=youtu.be

And here's some real online matches.

Sorry about the 480 Quality, my Elgato hates my PS3   

[This Man]

I'm most definitely not an expert, but perhaps you should stop doing random specials? Try using normals more and learn how they can space the opponent.

 

Also playing in 7F delay will not help you learn, I'd imagine.

[StrikeBlade]

I'm most definitely not an expert, but perhaps you should stop doing random specials? Try using normals more and learn how they can space the opponent.

 

Also playing in 7F delay will not help you learn, I'd imagine.

I dont know how to approach lmao

[Kikuichimonji]

I think the biggest hurdle to jump for me is gonna be hit confirms. I'm actually going to record some matches in a little while and show you how I play, but the hit confirm window is so short that by the time I realize I should have comboed something it's come and gone already.

Basically, I have a lot of trouble with the idea of combos in any fighting game and I thgink it's because I struggle with the ideas of Jump Cancelling and Hit Confirming, and also the fact that I don't really know what moves can link into what.

You're not playing in a way that lets you hit-confirm so that's not even an issue for you at this point.

 

First off, forget that Riot Stamp and Grand Viper are moves. In fact, forget everything except the following moves:

 

5K - close range super fast button and anti-air

far S - far range poke that's relatively fast, used to play footsie

5HS - farther range than far S, but slower and combos from far S

2HS - Combo tool and anti-air

2D - Super amazing sweep that low profiles under everything and knocks down

Gunflame (236P) - Great half screen projectile that is significantly plus on block at farther ranges

6P - Great anti-air and beats high pokes like Ky's far S

Fafnir (41236 HS) - Slow move, but leads to good damage and corner on counter-hit. Leads to offense on block.

 

Learn how do to dashing 5S > 5HS > Gunflame. Raw Gunflame kind of sucks because it has so much startup, but cancelling his normals into Gunflame is very difficult to deal with as most characters.

 

You should just try to run up to people and do 5S > 5HS > Gunflame. If they block the Gunflame, do it again. You basically force them to react to what you're doing.

 

Stop throwing out specials. Rely on your normals. A player with good control of their normal attacks is very scary.

[StrikeBlade]

Stop throwing out specials. Rely on your normals. A player with good control of their normal attacks is very scary.

This actually might be the most interesting piece of information you've given me. So then, what would be the situations to correctly use specials?

Also, this is weirdly specific, but I have a question about Sol's Challenge 31. Watching the Sample, he somehow has time to do two Aerial Dusts without jump cancelling. Trying it myself I just don't... Have the time? I land before the second Dust comes out. I feel like I should definitely learn about this because it's really weird.

 

 

You're not playing in a way that lets you hit-confirm so that's not even an issue for you at this point.

I think I'm using this term incorrectly.

If you want to I'd love to play some games with you, Kiku.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

This actually might be the most interesting piece of information you've given me. So then, what would be the situations to correctly use specials?

It varies wildly based on the move, but normals are generally safer, faster, and harder to punish.

In any case, Bandit Bringer, Riot Stamp, and Grand Viper are highly punishable by experienced opponents. It would be better to not use those 3 moves at all rather than overuse them.

Also, this is weirdly specific, but I have a question about Sol's Challenge 31. Watching the Sample, he somehow has time to do two Aerial Dusts without jump cancelling. Trying it myself I just don't... Have the time? I land before the second Dust comes out. I feel like I should definitely learn about this because it's really weird.

The double j.D is the Dust Loop that this site is named after. Dust loop is critical to Sol's huge corner combo damage. The trick to connecting the second j.D is to do the first j.D as soon as possible when jumping, so that you can go into the second j.D as soon as possible.

I think I'm using this term incorrectly.

Hit confirming is a method of landing combos from individual hits. You rely on safe moves, like Sol's far S, to attack the opponent. One hit confirm combo of Sol's is the far S 5HS string I told you to use. You use the two hits to confirm whether the opponent blocked or was hit. If the opponent blocks, you can just cancel into Gunflame to be safe. If the opponent doesn't block, you Red Roman Cancel the 5HS and combo into Bandit Bringer > dash cl.S 2HS (jc) > j.S (jc) > j.S j.HS > HS Volcanic Viper > Knockdown. You use the safety and priority of far S while still getting large amounts of damage on hit.

If you want to I'd love to play some games with you, Kiku.

Sure, add me on PSN and I'll try to play you in a set if the connection's not terrible. My PSN username is MagmaFisher.