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VR-Raiden

[Xrd] Sol Badguy Option Selects Thread (Updated 01/31/2015)

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  • Everybody loves option selects. Use this thread to share and discuss all the fun option selects Sol can use.
  • This post will be updated periodically with useful info, such as when to use them and pros/cons. Feel free to post if you have different results on anything here so it can be ironed out.
Things I'm currently working on adding in here:

- safejump option selects (backdash punish OS are already in most matchup threads)

- ground oki backdash punish OS

- 5P whiff/connect > 2K/WT OS?

- YRC installs

- crossup FD/attack/throw OS

- general basic universal OS

Attack/Throw OS
  • 6K+HS (5K/Throw)
[collapse]Explanation: Performs throw if opponent is within throw range and throwable, performs 5K if opponent is outside throw range or unthrowable.

Notes: Very practical and useful any time you want to throw. Throw whiff becomes a 3f normal which catches jumps well. Note this only works with forward throw, back with this input gives Faultless Defense.[/collapse]

  • j.6P+HS (j.P/Air Throw)
[collapse]Explanation: Performs air throw if opponent is within air throw range and throwable, performs j.P if opponent is outside air throw range or unthrowable.

Notes: Not entirely necessary in most situations, since j.HS is such a strong normal on its own, but j.P is the fastest and shortest duration air throw whiff option. This makes it less likely to be countered and allows more leniency in air combos which are structured to be safer to Burst. For example, it is easier to set up situations where j.P would combo on an opponent not using Burst, or air throw that Burst if they did use it. Note this only works with forward throw, back with this input gives Faultless Defense.[/collapse]

Safejump OS
  • meaty j.S/j.HS~[4/1] (Safejump)
[collapse]Explanation: Performs nothing if the meaty connects, you simply land after the meaty connects. If the meaty whiffs, this performs blocking until you stop holding 4/1.

Notes: This is the most basic safejump OS, and is essentially just what "safejump" refers to. It is simply inputting block to defend against invulnerable reversals used against your meaty. Depending on reversal speeds, you may need to use the meaty as deep as possible, or there may be some leniency with height and timing. This is character specific. It is hardly worth even mentioning, but the following safejump OS build upon this.[/collapse]

  • meaty j.S/j.HS~[4]K/S (Safejump/Backdash Punish)
[collapse]Explanation: Performs nothing if the meaty connects, you simply land after the meaty connects. If the meaty whiffs, this performs blocking then 5K at the time it was input.

Notes: This is a reversal backdash punish OS. 4K is the most common punish and usually hits twice which makes for easier confirming. This OS is safe to fast reversal attacks (generally 7f or faster) because by the time you input 5K, their reversal has already connected, and holding 4 prior to the K/S input makes you block it. Reversal Burst hits this OS. The following is character specific info on these backdash punishes.

Characters 4K hits backdash:

- AX, FA, KY, LE, RA, SO, VE

Characters 4S(close) hits backdash:

- AX, CH, EL, IN, KY, LE, RA, SO, VE

Characters with reversals that punish this OS:

- AX, IN, KY, LE, RA[/collapse]

  • meaty j.S/j.HS~6[6]K/S (Safejump/Backdash Punish)
[collapse]Explanation: Performs nothing if the meaty connects, you simply land after the meaty connects. If the meaty whiffs, this performs dashing then 5K/S at the time it was input.

Notes: This is a reversal backdash punish OS for Potemkin, Bedman, and Zato. The 2nd hit of 5K connects ground hit on Potemkin's backdash. f.S connects ground hit on Bedman's backdash. 5K or c.S connects air hit on Zato. Since their only reversal attacks are Overdrives, this OS is safe to them. You are still dashing at the point of the Overdrive flash, and can react to punish accordingly. Reversal Burst hits this OS.[/collapse]

  • meaty j.S/j.HS~6[6] (Safejump/Dash)
[collapse]Explanation: Performs nothing if the meaty connects, you simply land after the meaty connects. If the meaty whiffs, this performs dashing.

Notes: This will chase an opponent’s reversal backdash and grant you close range pressure. It is especially useful on characters with only Overdrive reversals whose backdashes cannot be punished with these kinds of safejump OS (May and Millia). This OS loses to reversal attacks or Burst unless you Dash Brake with Faultless Defense in time.[/collapse]

  • meaty j.S/j.HS~44 (Safejump/Backdash)
[collapse]Explanation: Performs nothing if the meaty connects, you simply land after the meaty connects. If the meaty whiffs, this performs backdash.

Notes: This is useful for dodging certain reversal attacks which the opponent hopes to RC on block. It is unfortunately very difficult to time, but will grant you safejump pressure while at the same time preventing the opponent from safely switching the momentum in their favor. This will lose reversal Burst and if the opponent reversal backdashed, you lose your offensive.

Characters with reversals which backdash can dodge DP RC attempts:

- AX, KY, SI

Characters with reversal Overdrives which punish backdash:

- AX, KY[/collapse]

  • meaty j.S/j.HS~5/2S+HS (Safejump/Blitz Shield)
[collapse]Explanation: Performs nothing if the meaty connects, you simply land after the meaty connects. If the meaty whiffs, this performs Blitz Shield.

Notes: This is not too practical in most cases, but can be used to countering certain reversal attacks. It is unfortunately very difficult to time. This will also Blitz Shield reversal Burst, but if the opponent did reversal backdash or Overdrive, you can be punished.

Characters with reversals which can be countered with Blitz Shield:

- AX, CH, KY, LE, SI, SO[/collapse]

  • meaty j.HS~956/4HS (Safejump/Burst Throw)
[collapse]Explanation: Performs nothing if the meaty connects, you simply land after the meaty connects. If the meaty whiffs, you perform a forward j.HS.

Notes: This will air throw a reversal Blue or Gold Burst. It isn't easy to input and not very practical, especially against characters that have other reversal options. It's more of a read that leaves you in a favorable position if they chose to block, but the meaty can whiff against reversal backdash too, which isn't the best result. You can also choose to use j.P for the throw whiff. Note you can't use j.S here because it's jump cancellable.[/collapse]

  • meaty j.S/j.HS~TR (Safejump/TR)
[collapse]Explanation: Performs nothing if the meaty connects, you simply land after the meaty connects. If the meaty whiffs, you perform TR.

Notes: This is expensive, but punishes nearly all reversal backdashes and many reversal attacks. It will lose to reversal Bursts.

Characters TR hits reversal backdash:

- AX, BE, CH, IN, KY, MA, PO, RA, SI, SO, VE, ZA

Characters with reversals which TR can clash or lose to:

- AX, CH, KY, LE, SO[/collapse]

YRC Install
  • WT~P+K+S (WT Connects/YRC)
[collapse]Explanation: Performs WT if opponent is within range and throwable, performs YRC if opponent is unthrowable.

Notes: This can be used any time you attempt WT with at least 25% Tension (P+K+S is just an example YRC input, any combination can be used here). If the opponent jumped or backdashed your WT, you will YRC and be able to pursue. Faster throw invulnerable attacks will typically hit you out of YRC startup (6f). Note you must YRC on the active frame of WT, too early will give you YRC before WT can connect, and too late will give you PRC if you had 50% Tension. This requires accurate timing to be effective, WT startup is 4f.[/collapse]

  • Fafnir~P+K+S (Fafnir Connects/YRC)
[collapse]Explanation: Performs nothing if opponent blocks or is hit by Fafnir, performs YRC if Fafnir whiffs.

Notes: This can be used any time you attempt Fafnir with 25%-49% Tension (P+K+S is just an example YRC input, any combination can be used here). If the opponent backdashes, Gold Bursts, or uses an invulnerable attack through Fafnir, you will YRC. You can use similar option selects to the safejump backdash punish options with this. They may not grant guaranteed punishes, but it can ensure you get pressure after they backdash Fafnir.[/collapse]

  • placeholder ()
[collapse]Explanation: placeholder

Notes: placeholder[/collapse]

Universal OS
  • 4/6HS+D (Burst/Throw)
[collapse]Explanation: Performs throw if opponent is within throw range and throwable, performs Gold Burst if opponent is outside throw range or unthrowable.

Notes: Not much reason not to use this when going for a Gold Burst. In general any attacks that beat throw will be susceptible to Gold Burst, and Gold Burst is generally safe on block. Getting a throw instead of Gold Burst when the opponent was throwable is still a favorable outcome, and you can save the Burst for later.[/collapse]

Progress:

01/31/2015 - updated safejump OS backdash, safejump OS blitz, Fafnir YRC install

01/30/2015 - added some character specifics on safejump OS

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So how does the throw/attack OS work? Is it for defense when your opponent is pressuring you or for your offense?

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So how does the throw/attack OS work? Is it for defense when your opponent is pressuring you or for your offense?

Both actually, it's useful for any time you want to throw. The only drawback is it must be a forward throw, otherwise you'll get FD instead (which comes into play for anti-crossup OS). Sol's only one worth using on ground is 6K+HS pretty much, as shown in Tutorial mode #23. You get a 3f throw whiff which is also good at catching jumps. Just have to be careful using it on defense, since if you do it while in block stun and you have 50% tension you'll get Dead Angle.

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Looking at YRC install stuff a bit today. This is an OS to be safe to Dead Angle Attack and do an empty jump 2K into combo at the same time in corner GF (YRC) oki:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PirzNWJNfoY

3K+S+HS > 4K+S > 6P

Works on 10f and slower DAA if they did it as soon as possible from what I was finding (so everyone but Axl, Bedman, Elphelt, Faust, Ramlethal, Sin). If they delayed DAA it can hit YRC startup though.

Also messed around with low airdash j.P > j.P+K+S > j.P. If they crouched under the air dash j.P, you YRC into an overhead j.P. If they block the air dash j.P, you get 3 j.P's in a row.

For meterless corner oki after BR, you can neutral jump > 2K > 6P+K+S to get 2K > 6P on block/hit or 2K (YRC) on whiff if they jumped it. This allows you to either air throw (don't think it's 100% guaranteed) or continue pressure to keep them cornered.

Similarly you can do low air dash j.S > j.P+S+HS to get air dash j.S > j.HS on block/hit, and air dash j.S (YRC) on whiff if they jumped (jump only tends to dodge the j.S completely if you did a minimum height air dash).

All this being when you're at 25-49% tension of course.

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I'm not sure how to explain why this happens or its usefulness, but it counts as an option for sol and it intrigued me. Did not test it with other characters yet.

 

Try this on a blocking opponent: simply 

Gun flame, yrc, Fafnir yrc.

 

If you time it correctly, it changes the opponents recovery and gives you YRC instead.

 

https://youtu.be/7fCewO_hx-M

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I think that's GF connecting slightly after Fafnir, changing the blockstun to that of GF which is much shorter than Fafnir's. So they leave stun earlier than if Fafnir connects after GF, allowing neutral YRC. It's the same reason doing GF YRC > Fafnir can make yourself punishable if you do Fafnir too soon and it connects before GF.

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There's nothing "impossible" about that YRC. The move that hits later supersedes the move that hits earlier. Gun Flame hits later, so the blockstun they are incurring is from that, not the Fafnir. You can tell in the footage that the opponent is already in the process of returning to their neutral animation by the time of the super freeze. In fact, if you try this on hit, you'll notice that the opponent floats from the Gun Flame rather than tumble from the Fafnir. Having gone in Training Mode and looked at it a little, I can verify that at starting range, Fafnir typically hits a frame or so earlier than Gun Flame. It's possible to pause, hide the menu and see the frame where Fafnir connects (even prior to hitstop, on the frame of hit detection), and Gun Flame just barely hasn't connected yet.

Everything shown is working as intended.

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I would like to disagree Ultima. I clearly hit the opponent with the Gun Flame and Fafnir and then YRCed. After Fafnir hits you should always get an RRC. I know that in this case the recovery gets changed and that is why both of us get YRC, as I mentioned in the description of the video. Just like the Dead angle YRC OS. Can you share a link of this kind of thing, in which you preform a projectile, then another move resulting in changing of the recovery? 

 

Moreover, are you implying that we should change the name of "Impossible Dust"? Coining words, especially if they have similar usage, isn't a matter of right and wrong.

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After Fafnir hits you should always get an RRC.

Usually that's the case, but not if the opponent isn't in stun when you RC. They are not in stun at this time because GF changed the length of blockstun they are in (shortened it in comparison to Fafnir blockstun). It follows how the mechanics work, just an interesting scenario.

Other examples of YRCing a Fafnir that connects with something: hitting Zato shadow and Potemkin during hammer fall. For both of these, the opponent is not in hit or blockstun, therefore YRC happens.

With this scenario in discussion, the opponent is not in blockstun at the time you input RC. GF registers as connecting after the Fafnir.

You GF YRC > Fafnir > Fafnir connects and puts opponent in Fafnir blockstun > GF connects and puts opponent in GF blockstun > you input RC and it's YRC because they already left GF blockstun by the time you input RC.

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The Gunflame hits>YRC thing works the same for BB, Fafnir and BB juts happen to be YRC'able quite late into their active frames compared to most moves. Not very practical at this point, except maybe Bukkirabou setups, and Fafnir YRC>WT is much more reliable. 

 

It's kind of how I did GF YRC > HSVV whiff > Gunflame hits > RC yesterday, despite the fact you can't RC VV's on whiff - the Gunflame got blocked by my opponent on the ground and put him in blockstun, which let me RC the otherwise fatally mistaken VV attempt. Things like this happen, while they do bring a little bit of depth to the system, I wouldn't go as far as to call them very usable. 

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I know that in this case the recovery gets changed and that is why both of us get YRC, as I mentioned in the description of the video.

 

Regardless, thank you VR and Ultima for further clarification. The other characters' examples are useful. I tried replicating this with Bandit Bringer but with no luck. I am looking for more applications like these. 

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I know that in this case the recovery gets changed and that is why both of us get YRC, as I mentioned in the description of the video.

 

I... don't really know what point you're trying to make then. If you understand how the Roman Cancel system works, then I don't know what part of this should strike you as odd. As I said before, the stun will follow whichever move hits last, and the Gun Flame hits last. A ranged Gun Flame is three attack levels lower than Fafnir, so an opponent will obviously recover much faster by comparison. Even if you timed the two moves to hit at the exact same time, in Guilty Gear, two hits cannot connect on the same person on the same frame, one of the hits will always connect a frame after the other. This is why Zato "unblockables" are technically more like hard-to-blockables than true unblockables.

 

Moreover, are you implying that we should change the name of "Impossible Dust"? Coining words, especially if they have similar usage, isn't a matter of right and wrong.

 

Oh no, I have no issue with the term "Impossible Dust". I was just being a little flippant towards your apparent readiness to label something as tech or even a glitch when there's nothing especially abnormal about it. I do apologise for that though.

If nothing else, the video does demonstrate that Fafnir actually has a pretty ludicrously long YRC window.

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Wasn't Impossible Dusts referring to the untech time when you dust someone back in X2? You hit them during that untech time as late as possible to add a longer untech time. I think it's 29+48 frames. Do we even have IDs in Xrd?

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Correct, and no, Impossible Dusts as we know them are no longer possible in Xrd because of changes made to Dust Attacks in light of the new cinematic Homing Jump.

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Correct, and no, Impossible Dusts as we know them are no longer possible in Xrd because of changes made to Dust Attacks in light of the new cinematic Homing Jump.

 

Shame. It was pretty stylish to pull them off too.

 

To clarify to people who don't know, when you dust there's 29 frames of untech time, in which you hit your opponent and then after that hit, they can't tech for the next 48 frames. By hitting someone in the 25-29 or so window, you maximize the amount of time they can't untech and pull of stylish and extended combos. Due to the homing animation, the tech time is always set the same, so you can't land before your opponent to pull off fun stuff.

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