[Xrd] Venom Execution Tips and Tricks

[Justice7541]

Figured I would make this topic since a lot of people are asking a lot of the same questions over and over, and just posting this in the general discussion thread didn't seem super helpful since that gets buried fast. Note that this isn't a combo compilation thread per se, it's more to discuss methods of executing specific combo parts and also other tricks that aren't immediately obvious to new players. I will admit I'm somewhat in that category myself so feel free to suggest or add whatever.

EDIT Dai here, taking over with edits as I see.

Charge Execution

 

c.S(1) > S Carcass

Input as: [2] > 5S~8S

- You can buffer the next move in a string a few frames in advance, meaning that it's possible to input both c.S and Carcass basically at the same time and have them both come out. You should basically be double-tapping the S button as quickly as you can. The result is that c.S > Carcass becomes an airtight, +10 pressure reset tool that works on everyone both standing and crouching. It also combos on crouchers, so be sure to hit confirm when used from an air string.

- A simple way to practice a practical application is to set the dummy to crouch in the corner. Airdash into the corner with a simple chain (such as j.SHS) and make sure you hold 1/2/3 after airdashing. Shift to 5 and press S as you land, and immediately press 7/8/9S to finish.

- A similar trick can be used to make c.S(2) > 5H > S Carcass work.

- Also works with stuff like 2K > c.S(1) > S Carcass, but in this case you must wait to input 5S~8S until after 2K connects, or the buffer won't give you S Carcass.

 

Dash > S Carcass

Input as: 66[3] > 8S

- Holding 3 while dashing will allow you to charge down while continuing to dash. Not a super complicated concept.

- Generally used when running under opponents.

 

2P/K > c.S(2) > S Carcass

Input as: 2P/K > 5S~[2] > (c.S hits twice) > very slight delay after second hit > 8S

- Venom can cancel c.S into other moves during any of the hits, even on whiff, so long as at least one of them connects. This means it is possible to do c.S(2) > S Carcass and have it be (almost) airtight so long as you delay the Carcass just until just slightly after the second hit of c.S connects.

 

Stinger Aim > Carcass Ride (or vice versa)

Input as: [1]3S/H > 7S/H (or vice versa)

- Pretty self-explanatory. The game doesn't care whether you do the charger input as 6 or 3 so it is possible to charge both moves at once and input one without dropping the charge for the other.

 

Carcass Ride > Carcass Ride

Input as: [2] > any normal > 8S~[2] > 8S

- Basically just taking advantage of the input buffer to get extra time to charge a second Carcass while the first is animating.

- Simple to practice off of 2S, but can be used well with 2HS, c.S, and 5HS (use the first trick for the latter 2)

 

Combo Execution

 

c.S IAD j.SHD 6H

Input as either:

c.s(3) 9(delay)66 j.SHD 6H

c.S(3) 866 j.SHD 6H

c.S(3) sj.96 j.SHD 6H

- Probably the most common repeat question. Note that a straight IAD does not work on most characters except Leo, Bedman, and Potemkin. Anyone lighter than those three are too light and may drop out in various way (i.e. j.H will whiff on Sol).

- If you are having trouble linking 6H, delay the hits of j.SHD slightly so that j.D comes out closer to the ground.

- If you are landing before j.D comes out, try to either press j.SHD faster (the fastest possible chain actually requires faster inputs than it looks like it does) or time your j.S to hit sooner after the airdash.

- Thanks to c.S's long hitstop, you can input the jump anytime during the third hit's hitstop and still get the jump on the first possible frame after the hitstop ends. This gives you a lot of time to input the dash after jumping, but also means that you may have to delay the airdash more than you expect.

- Note that doing this combo with the fastest possible timing will whiff and Sol and Millia (and some situations, I think May as well?). You'll need to hit that j.S a bit later in the combo, generally airdashing just a little later.

Throw > dash 2H Carcass IAD j.SHD etc.

Input as: Throw > 66[3] (as long as possible) > 2H(2) Carcass 96 j.SHD etc.

- The trick is to dash forward and charge down as long as possible before doing 2H. This isn't that tight, the dash window after throw is actually much bigger than you need to make the combo work. Most common problem seems to be people trying to do a very quick microdash 2H when they should be doing a long dash.

- The IAD after Carcass connects is a bona fide IAD. Do it as fast as possible. Similarly, do j.SHD as fast as possible, otherwise you will land before j.D comes out.

- Possible on Potemkin and Bedman but pretty tight. Dash jump j.KSHD works as a substitute to IAD j.SHD. (see below)

- Becomes harder the closer you are to corner, and impossible when actually in corner. Do dash jump j.KSHD instead if close enough.

 

Dash jump j.KSHD etc.

Input as: 669 j.KSHD

- A jump out of a dash has a lower, longer arc than a regular forward jump, so doing a dash is usually meant to get that specific arc rather than just closing ground. You should basically be microdashing into a jump before you even see Venom move forward at all.

- VERY difficult to land on Ky, results may vary for other characters depending on hurtbox and corner positioning. A good general rule is to chain j.KS with a small delay and possibly the j.HSD as well.

 

SQV 5P IAD (ball hit) j.SHD

- You are hitting the S ball as it moves back so it hits the opponent a few frames later and extends hitstun. The 5P actually has to hit since you are jump canceling it into the IAD.

- Usually dependent on spacing and opponent hitbox. If the opponent is fat, the ball will hit very early and the IAD link becomes very tight and/or impossible. If on the other hand they are too far away and/or too skinny, the ball won't even hit in time before the opponent techs. If you're not sure whether you're doing it right, Sol has a pretty standard hitbox to practice it on.

- Some characters (i.e. Millia) require an extra delay before doing 5P. You basically want to wait as long as possible before hitting the ball in order to give it maximum travel time.

- Also applies to links like SQV 5P QV. Like above, the ball must still have some travel time before hitting, so it may drop on fatter characters.

 

KQV 6P (ball hit) 6H

- To be honest, I'm not sure what it is that makes this work or not. I believe the 6P has to hit before the ball does so that the ball extends the hitstun on the opponent, and not vice versa, and depending on exact positioning of the ball sometimes the ball hits first. Adding or delaying various normals (i.e. doing 5K 6P instead of just 6P, or doing delay 6P, etc.) seems to help somewhat but it remains character-specific to some extent, especially on very skinny characters like Millia.

- Part of the problem and solution is that more hits add extra gravity to the opponent. Sometimes this will aid the link, sometimes hinder it.

 

TK Mad Struggle

- So to be safe, the basic input is 2369S/HS. You'll be doing the S version 99.99% of the time though.

- Mad Struggle hits a total of 4 times but depending on height it can hit anywhere betwen 1-4 times or not at all. A lowest-possible TK Mad Struggle will perform the dive animation but you won't actually get any hits, so you can fake a high and go low. If you want an actual overhead, delay the Mad Struggle slightly.

- How many times Mad Struggle actually hits on the way down depends on the height you actually perform the move at. Unfortunately this affects the window for linking a followup after landing but there's no real way to guarantee a proper link other than just getting a sense of how high you are TKing the move. Mad Struggle hits a maximum of 4 times so a higher TK makes the timing more consistent, but unfortunately also makes the mixup a bit slower.

 

And that's all I've got thus far.

[SIne]

just a note to add to the throw s qv iad combo: certain characters( like millia) may require a slight delay before doing the 5P so the ball hits them, then you do the iad for the combo to hit cleanly.
Also for optimal variations you might have to move back a bit or dash foward before doing the 5H S QV portion

[DaiAndOh]

Good idea, will help answer a lot of common questions.

Some things to add.

On the first combo: You can input the jump at anytime during the hitlag of the 3rd hit to get the jump asap (notable for Xrd's greater hitlag).

On the throw combo: Also add that the buttons needs to be pressed as fast as possible in this case then doing j.SHSD, if not, Venom will land before j.D can come out.

[alucard19]

excellent thread thank you guys.

[xxteefxx]

Where is the following :

-5p, 5 hs~ cr

-5s, 5Hs~ Cr

-double crs after buffered standing s

-2k, standing S~CR

-TK madstruggle.

Those should be basics and essential to learn

[GodPress]

Where is the following :

-5p, 5 hs~ cr

-5s, 5Hs~ Cr

-double crs after buffered standing s

-2k, standing S~CR

-TK madstruggle.

Those should be basics and essential to learn

I dont agree with them being basics and essentials to learn outside of Tk madstruggle. 2K>c.S(1)>CR was also covered in the first post which is a combination of storing charge via 663 and [3]K > c.S(1) ~ 8S. 

 

5P> 5HS ~ CR and 5S > 5HS ~ CR don't particularly have any trickery or execution shortcuts to them, it's just a case of doing the gatlings as fast as possible to gain enough time afterwards to charge for the Carcass Raid S. If anyone's looking to practice this the easiest way to do it is to put the opponent in the corner and set the dummy to block everything, dash up 5P>5HS>[2]8S, you want to start charging immediately after you've pressed 5HS and release the charge when venom begins to cycle back to his neutral and retract the cue or when you're near the maximum pushback distance. This is easier if you're doing it if you're using it with ball setups due to added blockstun (P set dash 5p, SP set dash 5P).

 

If you've grasped the idea behind doing [2] > c.S(1) ~ 8S the double carcass raid shouldn't be too far a stretch, hold [2] immediately after the first CR and as the ball hits your opponent release the charge for Carcass. 

 

TK madstruggle is essential though and the quickest possible method you can input this with is 2369S or HS, alternatively you can do 9236 but its much more pronounced jump. If you're finding yourself doing the Madstruggle without any resultant hits you're just hitting the S instantly as you jump; delay it a tad and you'll get the hits. You can use the instant madstruggle to go for throw setups in pressure strings though.

[Justice7541]

I dont agree with them being basics and essentials to learn outside of Tk madstruggle. 2K>c.S(1)>CR was also covered in the first post which is a combination of storing charge via 663 and [3]K > c.S(1) ~ 8S. 

 

5P> 5HS ~ CR and 5S > 5HS ~ CR don't particularly have any trickery or execution shortcuts to them, it's just a case of doing the gatlings as fast as possible to gain enough time afterwards to charge for the Carcass Raid S. If anyone's looking to practice this the easiest way to do it is to put the opponent in the corner and set the dummy to block everything, dash up 5P>5HS>[2]8S, you want to start charging immediately after you've pressed 5HS and release the charge when venom begins to cycle back to his neutral and retract the cue or when you're near the maximum pushback distance. This is easier if you're doing it if you're using it with ball setups due to added blockstun (P set dash 5p, SP set dash 5P).

 

If you've grasped the idea behind doing [2] > c.S(1) ~ 8S the double carcass raid shouldn't be too far a stretch, hold [2] immediately after the first CR and as the ball hits your opponent release the charge for Carcass. 

 

TK madstruggle is essential though and the quickest possible method you can input this with is 2369S or HS, alternatively you can do 9236 but its much more pronounced jump. If you're finding yourself doing the Madstruggle without any resultant hits you're just hitting the S instantly as you jump; delay it a tad and you'll get the hits. You can use the instant madstruggle to go for throw setups in pressure strings though.

 

Yeah I'm not sure what there is to say about 5H > Carcass other than "input 5H then do Carcass a bit later during the recovery".  Same with TK Mad Struggle, if you know what a TK is you should be able to figure this one out.  I can't imagine anyone going GAIZ I DID A TK MAD STRUGGLE BUT I DIDN'T GET ANY HITS WHAT DID I DO WRONG since it's pretty obvious so I just didn't bother writing it down.

 

Double Carcass may be worth a note though, I actually didn't even think to ever do that myself.

[GodPress]

Yeah I'm not sure what there is to say about 5H > Carcass other than "input 5H then do Carcass a bit later during the recovery".  Same with TK Mad Struggle, if you know what a TK is you should be able to figure this one out.  I can't imagine anyone going GAIZ I DID A TK MAD STRUGGLE BUT I DIDN'T GET ANY HITS WHAT DID I DO WRONG since it's pretty obvious so I just didn't bother writing it down.

 

Double Carcass may be worth a note though, I actually didn't even think to ever do that myself.

Agreed, but while I was there thought I might as well jot it down.

There's also using the charge buffer to do stuff like [2] > c.S(1) ~ 8s > [2] > 5HS ~ 8S in the corner with something like PK set. Executionally it's stuff that's already been covered in your original post though.

[xxteefxx]

Fair enough, you guys do whatever you would like. i just wanted to participate my 2 cents

 

wanted to also mention something not sure everybody know that apparently? which is, after standing S(3) instead of 866 or 966 u can do a shortcut that is similar to jump install concept. used to use it for testament ac Loops. you can 2369, then 6 to Instant air dash. will be considered as 99 effect. and yes it works but tight on time (toward the end of active frames of 5S last hit.

 

Edit: What about 2K, Standing S(2)~ carcass raid 

                            Dash in K,HS~ Carcass raid

[Justice7541]

I already have 2K c.S(2) Carcass in the OP. 5K 5H Carcass would be the same as 5P 5H Carcass no?

Also I'm not sure how your 2369~6 input would differ from a regular IAD except that it would give you a superjump IAD instead of a regular one. 96 is a pretty universal IAD input in most Arcsys games, although IIRC it doesn't work in French Bread games.

[xxteefxx]

Justice

Yes sorry. Yes p has carcass is a plink. 5k hs is not, thus it has to be prebuffered plinky. They are tips dude, chill you don't have to put it I'm just post, I just wanted to put something to contribute. With all honesty, none of these nor the pnes you mentioned requires any annotation for excution...I am just throwing excution stuff so people who doesnt know can see all the options .

Yes it was mentioned in another post that someone was asking for ways to excute standing s into iad. So this is an extra way. Just 9-6 womt work with the chain of standing s, thus you have to actually input the airdash instead of ahortcut. The super jump I mentioned is just am extra way to trick the system as if its a 96 due to the tk motion at the emd of the active frames of standing s

[Justice7541]

I'm just clarifying because I'm not sure what you're even actually suggesting. No need to get defensive.

[xxteefxx]

I am not defensive my friend . I am stating tips and yticks as well. You have an idea what it is in your post, though I am not quite sure what it is. Kinda confused.Like in general toward venom or just some stuff you want to bring to people attention?

Got what I mean? And yes my engliah ain't that good at forums and phone doesnt help lol.

How about jump install ball setups? Close p, s~jump install three balls, re jump backward hit them.

Short cast redhail? Or is it too general for this one?

Hmm how about OS burst, or air block plinks venom specifics.

[Justice7541]

I think it would be good if you could actually say what these execution tricks you are referring to are and why they're useful, so I could actually put them in the first post if I think it's relevant. I literally have no idea what you're referring to when you say shit like "air block plinks" nor do I know what situations that would actually be useful in.

If it helps, I would judge it useful/not useful based on the following criteria:

1) Is it useful? I.e. combos like Venom's teleport loop (full charge QV, midscreen throw, teleport x N) aren't super useful in practice so I wouldn't bother putting it in, even though it's not an easy or obvious combo.

2) Is it obvious? I declined to put TK Mad Struggle into the OP because it really is kind of obvious. Bit of a judgment call as always but I don't want to get overly basic explaining general system mechanics or fundamentals.

3) Is it repetitive? Stuff like 2K c.S(1) Carcass is useful, but it's also repetitive since it operates on the same principle as c.S(1) Carcass.

So there you have it. Keep in mind that the more stuff we throw it in there the harder it is to actually find the useful stuff, so I am picking and choosing a bit..

[DaiAndOh]

I think TK Mad Struggle should get a mention because new players who aren't aware can and will probably check this thread.

And I do agree that if Teef is going to make suggestions, he should post solutions in this case too, unless he's asking how to do something.

[Justice7541]

Alright, I'll make a note of Mad Struggle although I'm not going to go so far as to explain what a TK is.  That's getting a bit too basic for me.

[Eshi]

Mad Struggle can actually hit 3 times as well, though I haven't seen it hit only once yet. It is really important but I don't actually know how to give execution tips for it, linking after it consistently is tough and only really gets easier with tons of in-match experience with timing it from different heights.

[DaiAndOh]

It can hit anywhere from 1-4 times depending on spacing and how high you are off the ground.

 

It can hit 0 times actually and whiff too when doing the lowest possible TK!

[Justice7541]

I've never seen it hit one or three times. I'm guessing it''s probably dependent on the opponent's hitbox. I guess the takeaway is that it can hit anywhere between 0-4 times and you need to have some idea of how many times it'll hit if you want to follow it up properly.

[KrsJin]

Ignorant questions regarding double carcass raids.

Does this need to be done off of a standing normal to work? (Just tried it last night and got it fine off c.S(1) but couldn't just do straight up CRx2 as quickly. Don't trust my execution to decide.

Also is 2 the limit or could you keep inputting CRs at the same rate indefinitely?

Hope those make sense and thank you! (This thread is great btw)

[DaiAndOh]

All depends on spacing. The further out you are, the more leniency you have. And you can do it indefinitely. Just gotta basically tap up then go back to down ASAP.

[SIne]

It doesn't need to be done off a standing normal, although that makes it easier and you can do it as long as you want. When you want to a double CR

as soon as you input the first one, you should be charging for the other one ,like 6639(8) S, 39 S 39 S, etc... keep in mind you have to input it pretty quickly and double tapping S helps 

[LuimanXrd]

Any tips on consistently getting S Mad Struggle to hit the desired amount of times? Currently, I'm resorting to adding/substracting additional commands from the TK command (like, 236987S to get the 4-hit version), but I haven't achieved the level of consistency I'm looking for. I'm interested in getting 0, 2 and 4 hits at will.

[SIne]

Since the number of hits change relative to height, it just depends on how fast you input S after you do the motion for the TK. Inputting S at different times causes a different number of hits. For 0 hits (whiff TK mad struggle into throw) the fastest possible TK S has to be done so that you are really low to the ground. A higher number of hits means you have to delay when you input S slightly so that you are higher of the ground.

[Xenozip]

Consistently getting a 4-hit shouldn't be an issue, a normal jump Struggle (9236S) will most likely be a 4-hitter fairly easily/consistently.

 

But I gotta agree with SIne, getting consistent 2-hit or 0-hit is more a matter of learning the timing rather than trying to grind it into muscle memory with more or less inputs.

 

Anyway, here's some other Mad Stuggle stuff:

 

* You can get a dashing TK Struggle with 236-69x. It takes some getting use to, but it maintains dash momentum for Mad Struggle on it's way down. - You'll hear the dash sound effect instead of the SJ sfx, and you'll glide forwards a lot (if far from opponent).
 

* You can get a TK Struggle but avoid the SJ by holding down a bit, since SJ requires a fast input. So [2]369x - probably useless since there's no difference other than the sound effect but thought I'd throw it out there.