AC: General Strategies and Tactics

[JEKKI]

whaaaaaaaaat?!?!?! u mean Resengenki or whatever doesnt increase your guard bar when opponent blocks it?!?! dat sucks! what about when u spin your chain, does that help??? sankyu btw! one more question, does 6H still cause your opponent to float on midair counter hit?? that always opened up opportunities for me in XX!!! but also... even if it does, does the lack of priority on 6H make its CH ability a lost cause? thanks a lot again! I hear ranbats start this saturday in socal and I suck ass at this game! lol

[Shoto]

added some random stuff for the keep away part.. will come up with something better as soon as I find the time (which could take a while).. nevertheless maybe we can use those bits and bytes to get a discussion going^^

[Guardian]

So this is probably old as dirt, but I'll post it anyway. j.623HS has crossup frames as we all well know, but here's a corner crossup that's kinda dumb. Any combo ending in [4]6S, putting them in the corner, or REALLY close to it(I find it works best when they're not totally in the corner). After that running jump~iad on top of them, j.623HS. If done correctly, it should cross them up and knock them toward the corner for 5P, 2S combos. I did it a few times against RK this past weekend and my friend said he was crossed up everytime. I'm sure this could work midscreen as well. The bomber has to be done right as they're getting up, or you can be AA for a combo.

[Digital Watches]

Alright, now that I fully understand how to do it, I'm going to explain the awesome thing I've been working on lately: Jump-Installed Raeisageki (63214S) FRC. As many of you have known since Slash, using the Raeisageki FRC can make an ambiguous high crossup/throw/low guessing game that'll net a clever Axl a lot of free throws. Well now, with the additional hitting frame on the Raeisageki FRC, this move can be more dangerous, ambiguous, dynamic, and overall useful than ever before. Much like a ton of other JI'd moves, the JI'd Raeisageki allows you your jump options (double jump/airdash) after the FRC, which allows for a lot of options after doing it. Firstly, you now have a midscreen combo starter on most characters, making getting hit by a Raeisageki midscreen (where it can cross up) a lot more dangerous. This is accomplished by FRCing the move at the third frame of the FRC window, then chasing the slide with an airdash and popping up the opponent with j.H. This will work on almost, if not every character in the cast, but the timing for the airdash and j.H will vary from character to character. A basic combo to do would be: 632147S (The 7 is to JI the move) FRC, airdash j.H, land, 2S, j.H, j.D, Kokuugeki. You could swap out the air combo for a HS Benten for knockdown on most characters as always, and if you have sufficient meter or are close to the corner after the airdash, you can just go for a bomber loop. This combo is hard due to the 1-frame FRC timing, but I've been able to pull it off a few times in matches, and could probably do it more consistently with practice. Anyway, now the threat of damage is established regardless of your position on the screen. This is where the move becomes even more dangerous. Note: From here on, FRC and Empty FRC (EFRC) will be noted as such. EFRC refers to the two-frame FRC window in which the move is cancelled before the active frames, FRC refers to the one-frame window in which the move is cancelled on the first active frame. Now that your threat of damage is established, the opponent will already have to decide both which way they're going to have to block, but also whether you'll simply EFRC and throw them for a similar combo. Of course, even without the Jump Install, you could go for a high attack after either FRC, or land and go for a low after an EFRC. Basically, now your options have been expanded. You can airdash to safety or to chase them down, you can double-jump out of the range of a close anti-air, and you can go for re-crossups with airdash+Kokuugeki (Probably requiring another FRC to do damage, so try to have 50% meter if you want to try that) or j.K/S/H/D, and you can even EFRC to tech their airthrow attempt (assuming they react in time to try it.) You have several powerful mixup and movement options, whether or not you decide to force the opponent to block the initial raeisageki, and, if you play your cards right, you're fairly safe throughout the whole situation. I think that this setup could revolutionize Axl's pressure game if players learned to use it. EDIT: Maybe this belongs in the lockdown thread?

[Kobayashi]

A basic combo to do would be:

632147S (The 7 is to JI the move) FRC, airdash j.H, land, 2S, j.H, j.D, Kokuugeki

I always get a back airdash.

[Digital Watches]

I always get a back airdash.

The trick to that is airdashing late. You'll want a low j.H anyway, so do the airdash low. By that time, Axl will have turned around and will airdash forward. Of course, if you don't cross up, this isn't a problem, but on most characters it's safer to assume that the combo will work better with a low airdash.

EDIT: Holy shit. I was playing around with backdashing after the FRC, and I got the j.H to connect on Sol after backdashing in the air. I'm sure it's some wacky spacing thing, but it can potentially score a more meaty hit than the forwards one, thus making it easier to combo from it. Dunno how useful it will be in the long run, though.

[Digital Watches]

Rensen: After it has travelled about a third of the distance (2 frame timing).

623S: Just after the active frames end (3 frame timing?).

63214S: Right before (!) the attack comes out (2 frame timing).

63214H: Shortly after Axl bounces off the ground (3 frame timing).

Koku: Just before he starts falling down again (3 frame timing).

2H: Just when the sickles touch the ground (2 Frame timing?)

There are a few minor errors here. 623S is a 2-frame FRC (And is before the active frames end). 63214S is now a 3-frame FRC, the last frame of which is the first active frame of the move.

[Shoto]

kk^^ thanks .. did that before we had tranlated frame data:P

[Digital Watches]

No worries, just wanted to help out.

[Digital Watches]

Okay, two new things: 1. Benten (FRC) combos do more damage than Rensen FRC combos, making them worthwhile to learn. (Many thanks to Kobayashi for testing this while I couldn't access a PS2) 2. This is pure conjecture, but I've been messing with it for around an hour, and this is the conclusion I've come to: The three separate frames of the Raeisageki FRC are each different in what they will do when the move is jump-installed as follows: The first frame of the FRC will keep Axl facing the direction he was facing when he performed the move, meaning that if one buffers a dash immediately after FRCing on the first frame, it will be a backdash if towards the opponent (assuming that the move crossed up) and a forward dash if done away from them. The second FRC frame allows Axl to face the correct direction as soon as the move is cancelled, meaning that airdashes will correspond correctly to the side that Axl is on. Therefore, if your execution allows you to choose which frame of the EFRC you hit, you have four dashing options upon jump-installing, crossing up, and EFRCing: You can backdash towards the opponent immediately (or over them, for a double-crossup) if you FRC on the first frame. You can forward dash immediately away from the opponent if you FRC on the first frame (since Axl's forward dash in the air is much longer and faster than his backdash, this allows you to put the most distance between you and your opponent.) You can forward dash towards the opponent immediately after the FRC if you FRC on the second frame. This is good for charging in with a j.H or j.D (Or j.P or j.K, if you prefer) to get a ground combo into rensen. Or, you can backdash immediately after the FRC if you FRC on the second frame. This can be good for putting some distance between you and your opponent without losing too much momentum, and also allows you to throw out a j.S or j.6P on your way away from them. Of course, after FRCing on the first frame, one can still wait for Axl to turn around in the air and airdash slightly late to get the other set of directions as well, as I've already mentioned. EDIT: My other working theory is that it has nothing to do with the frame on which the move is FRC'd, but instead with how recently in the course of the move Axl crossed up the opponent. Maybe the game takes a little while after the characters have switched sides to allow the jumping character to turn around, which could also account for this.

[GoodHumor]

Hey Digital any chance we'll get to see a vid of your new Raeisageki discoveries?

[Digital Watches]

Hey Digital any chance we'll get to see a vid of your new Raeisageki discoveries?

Sure, if I get some video-recording equipment.

[Digital Watches]

Oh, semi-new thing: The blockstring version: 2K, c.S8-5H, 63214S (FRC) I'd use this one because it's easy to get a normal combo if the opponent doesn't block it, the c.S is easy to JC, and the 5H is level five and therefore has hideous amounts of blockstun, preventing them from jumping for an airthrow. Really, any blockstring that includes a JCable move (c.S8, 2S8, 6P8, 6K8) and a last move which can special-cancel (Any normal but 6H and 5D) will work.

[RabiteCake]

Oh, semi-new thing: The blockstring version: 2K, c.S8-5H, 63214S (FRC)

I'd use this one because it's easy to get a normal combo if the opponent doesn't block it, the c.S is easy to JC, and the 5H is level five and therefore has hideous amounts of blockstun, preventing them from jumping for an airthrow. Really, any blockstring that includes a JCable move (c.S8, 2S8, 6P8, 6K8) and a last move which can special-cancel (Any normal but 6H and 5D) will work.

you are indeed serious business sir<3

[Suiluung]

I was wondering why you threw that move out a lot more than me at EVO.

[Digital Watches]

I was wondering why you threw that move out a lot more than me at EVO.

Yeah, I probably should have practiced that more before trying it so often at Evo.

[Shoto]

a short update in the defense and dealing with uppercutters part..

[Shoto]

[..] 5H is level five and therefore has hideous amounts of blockstun, preventing them from jumping for an airthrow.

This is not completely true (found it out this weekend the hard way :P).. If your opponent just holds up after he blocked the 5H he will be able to air throw you (at least Chipp could do it (3 Frames of jump startup afaik), so maybe charas with more startup on their jumps can't); it just gets a bit harder..

Nevertheless since you can also go into 2D your opponent could need too much time to figure out what move you are going for you it could get impossible (haven't yet tested if it can be done on reaction), nevertheless if he just expects that move and is taking the risk (which is quite high since you can combo from 2D) many charas are able to airthrow you even in that situation.

[Shoto]

No, I think I did something like 3P, 5H, 63214S but my opponent failed a few times (I spammed 63214S to check out what my opponent could do if I did it after 5H) where I hit him in the air (while after a 3P or a S© he has no problem doing it if he expects it).. so maybe it's too hard and thus too risky.. nevertheless we tried it again in practice where he could do it 3 times in a row.. but maybe it's a distance thing as he said the nearer the move is when he would hit the easier it is for him to air throw as he just has to jump up.. Still I agree with you that it's safer to do a 63214S after a 5H than after any other blocked normal^^.

[Digital Watches]

I don't think 3P is JCable though...

[Shoto]

It isn't.. but a JI shouldn't affect being air thrown or not^^.

[Shoto]

short update in the first post.. a short paragraph on baiting reversals.. needs to be polished, will do that when I finally found the time and wrote up all the stuff that is still missing.. Nevertheless tell me your ideas on baiting; let's get a discussion going^^.

[Digital Watches]

Safe jump-normal into block is a good way to do it. Counters if you're ballsy. Or just a fake meaty 2K or 3P.

[JEKKI]

does Axl have any good wake-up options?? like is 623S any good?? Likewise, how do you deal with being rushed, I can never get a 2K or K out fast enough before getting hit again, is the only option to FD so the opponent moves farther away from you?

[Digital Watches]

does Axl have any good wake-up options??

like is 623S any good??

Good, not great. It works as a reversal, but seriously, don't count on it. Especially against low meaties. It's a little better that 623P for most situations, but marginally so at best. I've found that you can get away with a reversal 1fJ or either raeisageki once in a while, but usually you should block on wakeup.

Likewise, how do you deal with being rushed, I can never get a 2K or K out fast enough before getting hit again, is the only option to FD so the opponent moves farther away from you?

Axl, like most child prodigies, does not respond well to pressure. You've got to be able to block properly, and that includes FDing and IBing. Once you have a window, either jump (1fJ if you can), or try f.S. f.S is a terrible combo move, but it's fairly fast, has a disjointed hitbox, has some nice range, and will usually combo on counterhit into rensen, due to the stagger it causes. I'll sometimes use Raeisageki (S) to jump out of a corner, but it's risky, of course, especially with no FRC. If you have only 1-3 frames free and know that a mid or high hit is coming, it sometimes helps to throw out a housoubako.