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Shoto

AC: General Strategies and Tactics

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hm.. I guess you have read my notes on defence on page1, post #4? This is basically what I can say about "generic options" against pressure. The rest comes from character knowledge. If something of that is unclear tell me so I can clarify it.. What DW posted is of course totally true.. I just want to add that 63214S is not really something to escape pressure (if you had that time you could easiely jump out or throw a poke) but more a method of chancing sides if you are up against the corner but not yet pressured (and as DW mentioned comes with its own dangers^^). If pressured and you have the "space" to go for S(f) you may cancel that move into 63214S to cross up the enemy and leave the corner.

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thanks! but for more clarification, what is 1fJ? intuitively I would assume it means one frame jump... any explanations or links where I can learn more? thanks again!

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Aye. 1-frame jump. Basically, when jumping, it takes 3 or more frames (character-dependant) to leave the ground after hitting 8. A 1fJ is a way to jump instantly, and is necessary to get out of certain traps, but also just useful as a tool in a lot of situations. Basically, just faultless immediately after jumping, before you even leave the ground. The best way to tell if it worked is that if you successfully 1fJ, you won't see a dust cloud rise from the ground when you jump.

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I'm still working on learning Axl but...what the heck is Raieisageki(S) used for? All it does for me is ground slide. I know it has FRC but, still haven't found a use for it other than throwing something different in the mix-up.

Funny you should mention that! Raeisageki just so happens to be my favorite move.

First off, the mere fact that it's a special move makes it an overhead you can use in situations where TK bomber and 6H cannot be used (After 2P for example).

Secondly, it gets airborne quickly and can get you out of the corner in situations where other solutions would be iffy.

Now, as far as the mixup goes, here's where you get into the cool kid stuff, some of which can be practiced, some of which is based on experience.

So here are all the factors you have to consider when trying to mix up with Raeisageki:

-Spacing

-Running momentum

-Can you JI it?

-Do you have 25% meter?

-Can the opponent jump and airthrow? (IE are they in neutral?)

The most obvious mixup is that, without playing against Axl a LOT, it's very hard to visually determine the point at which the move will cross up at certain distances. If you keep in mind the ideal spacing range, you have a very ambiguous crossup at your disposal, which is a free setup for Rensen, a combo (which I'll cover later), a running Rashousen, or just Oki.

With running momentum (you don't have to run for very long to make the move cover a good 75-80% of the screen, with a motion like 663214S, making it also a good way to get in on characters like Jam and Venom), the move obviously reaches farther, which, in your ambiguous crossup situation, can make what looks like non-crossup range become crossup range with a run animation started and cancelled too quickly to visually confirm, thus making your crossup very difficult to block.

And then there's the empty FRC. A raeisageki FRC is a good way to get in for a throw mixup, since Axl lands surprisingly fast after the FRC. You can even mix up AFTER the FRC, by throwing in another overhead before landing, or hitting 2K instead of throwing. Still, people will often still just be trying to block the crossup when you're throwing them. I'd say Flashmetroid, for example, has great reaction time, and he still fell for it quite a few times.

JI adds another dimension, and except in cases like 2P-->Raeisageki, you can JI the move at any time, even when not doing a move before it (it's for this reason that I'm very grateful that Kokuu has a minimum height, as the motion I use is 632147S). With a JI'd Raeisageki FRC, you can bait AA (FRC and jump or airdash away), use it as a quick way to get in (A la Johnny's Killer Joker Travel FRC, albeit not as good most of the time), and continue pressure (Especially when using the hitting frame of the FRC and a backward airdash, as the move is now not only ambiguous, but starts a blockstring (Raeisageki (hit FRC) Air backdash j.S, land, 5K, etc.). It also allows double-crossups and weird things like that.

And then there's the combos. Raeisageki prorates 90%, which is the same as a bomber. As most Axls know, a bomber in the corner is probably Axl's most damaging way to reliably start a combo. The sliding effect, when hitting the opponent into the corner, can start a combo for no meter, as you should have enough time to land and start a combo with 2K or even c.S on certain characters that have nicer sliding hitboxes. (I see Japanese Axls doing it with Rensen FRC lately when they think they don't have time to run in.) You can also start a combo fairly easily from midscreen. On any character (unless I'm mistaken), JI Raeisageki (Hit) FRC, airdash, j.H, (5K) 2S will connect and can combo into either Axl BNB (Bloop if you can get them to the corner, air combo to kokuu or Benten knockdown midscreen).

Aaaanyway. Raeisageki is a very strong move. You just have to know how and when to use it.

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Well for the 63214S stuff.. You can be air thrown out of it on reaction no matter if it gets JI or FRCed of whatever! So this move is more about doing it in situation in which they don’t expect it (so that they will at least block it). I don’t know any setup that will give you the right distance in which the move becomes ambiguous, not to mention that if it becomes too ambitious (i.e. crosses up very late) it can be blocked in both directions. .. and while I agree that you can use it to change sides, you can’t do it standalone but have to connect a move first (like 2P / S(f) / 5H etc. [or as oki]). If you do it standalone from an positional disadvantage you will most likely be hit out of it air to air. The FRC may work as a throw setup but it’s more of a trick than a real mixup. The JI stuff.. well if you're enemy awaits it you'll get airthrown so or so, shouldn't he await it well you won't need JI FRC, in fact you give him more time to react to you and even if you succed what is the damage you will get out of your mixup (but I may be ignorant, so fill me in^^). So while I'm not saying it's useless I don't see it as such a good options as DW does. Don’t get me wrong, 63214S has its uses but I just do not regard it quite as variable as you picture it^^.

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Well for the 63214S stuff.. You can be air thrown out of it on reaction no matter if it gets JI or FRCed of whatever! So this move is more about doing it in situation in which they don’t expect it (so that they will at least block it). I don’t know any setup that will give you the right distance in which the move becomes ambiguous, not to mention that if it becomes too ambitious (i.e. crosses up very late) it can be blocked in both directions.

When can it be blocked either direction except on wakeup? Also: Yes, airthrow is a problem, but it's a fairly fast move, so if the opponent is in any recovery at all, it shouldn't be too much of a risk.

.. and while I agree that you can use it to change sides, you can’t do it standalone but have to connect a move first (like 2P / S(f) / 5H etc. [or as oki]). If you do it standalone from an positional disadvantage you will most likely be hit out of it air to air.

While this is true in most cases, using it with running momentum to get out of the corner will typically put you out of reach of things that will cause you problems. Of course I wouldn't advocate it against characters that have good reach, like Ky or Venom.

The FRC may work as a throw setup but it’s more of a trick than a real mixup.

I disagree, merely because I don't think people can react that fast all the time, not to mention that throwing isn't the only option out of the FRC.

The JI stuff.. well if you're enemy awaits it you'll get airthrown so or so, shouldn't he await it well you won't need JI FRC, in fact you give him more time to react to you and even if you succed what is the damage you will get out of your mixup (but I may be ignorant, so fill me in^^). So while I'm not saying it's useless I don't see it as such a good options as DW does.

The Airdash can come immediately after the FRC, which means that it can start any blockstring a normal airdash can, as well as just a normal jump. In the meantime, combos off of hitting FRC can do a lot of damage without spending more meter than the FRC takes in the first place.

I'm not saying it's the end-all, be-all of moves, and of course it's a risk, but I think if one weighs one's options, a calculated risk can be a valuable tool, as this move definitely is.

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Raieisageki can be a powerfull tool if you konw how and when to use it:

1. You can do bomber loop of it and do huge damage.

2. You can use it as a cross over in the corner using 2P beacuse the 2 hits drags them out of the corner.

3. You can use it after a 2D and about 95% of the time you will hit them because they don't expect that.

4. Using the frc you can do thick throws or do a bomber in your way down or just do a mixup.

The only bad think about his move is that you can get air throw in reaction or be hit in the air but it is a very good move that you should be using not too much because your oponents can expect it and pusnish you, a very useful thing to do after they block a raieisageki is a back dash if you land too close.

Again,raieisageki is risky move but have huge rewards.

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95%? I doubt it. People will fall for that, but not NEARLY that often.

Believe me they fall for it!!

As long as you do it once in a year:psyduck:

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Believe me they fall for it!!

As long as you do it once in a year:psyduck:

Ah. I misunderstood what you meant. I thought you were doing it all the time, at which point I'd have to ask the question I ask more on these forums than any other: "Who the hell are you playing?"

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Ah. I misunderstood what you meant. I thought you were doing it all the time, at which point I'd have to ask the question I ask more on these forums than any other: "Who the hell are you playing?"

Well most of my friends that I play play better than me, so in order to keep them guessing and wondering I always do rare things and unsuspecting stuff so that way I can be read like a book, besides I like to do 2k,2d, raieisageki after a resen frc in the corner some times but that is something that I just add to my game.

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If I do 63214S as part of a mixup from a foregoing pressure pattern or even after S(f) or 2P I get thrown out by ATG about 80 percent of the time and the other 20% he usually blocks it. Other very good German player (like ChunLi1 / aCdhell) don’t have a success rate that high but they don’t have ATGs experience against Axl. The only thing were the air throw is so hard to do that the risk is too high is after any string into 5H. If you don’t get air thrown it’s merely because they don’t know the matchup good enough (or don’t try); same if you are too successful landing it out of standard situations :P. So especially out of basic mixup options keep the use low so that they don't know when to await it or realize that they should better focus on other things.

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If I do 63214S as part of a mixup from a foregoing pressure pattern or even after S(f) or 2P I get thrown out by ATG about 80 percent of the time and the other 20% he usually blocks it. Other very good German player (like ChunLi1 / aCdhell) don’t have a success rate that high but they don’t have ATGs experience against Axl. The only thing were the air throw is so hard to do that the risk is too high is after any string into 5H. If you don’t get air thrown it’s merely because they don’t know the matchup good enough (or don’t try); same if you are too successful landing it out of standard situations :P. So especially out of basic mixup options keep the use low so that they don't know when to await it or realize that they should better focus on other things.

I can definitely agree on that one. Spamming a move like that is never good.

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If I do 63214S as part of a mixup from a foregoing pressure pattern or even after S(f) or 2P I get thrown out by ATG about 80 percent of the time ...

What the Hell ? German people already know about the 2+P, 63214+S ?

Oh man ! This is my secrete arcane :

Enemy in the corner : 2+P, 63214+S-> FRC before hit-> Throw-> Bomber loop

What is going to replace it now ?

Damn ! This summer tournament is going to be tougher than expected...

Say... Can you really catch a Raesageki on reaction ?

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Raiei isn't a very fast move. With 28 frames of startup, cancelling it from a move like 2P which is only level 2 gives them more than enough time to jump and throw you out of it if they're watching for it, unfortunately.

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Raiei isn't a very fast move. With 28 frames of startup, cancelling it from a move like 2P which is only level 2 gives them more than enough time to jump and throw you out of it if they're watching for it, unfortunately.

FRC and buffer an FB for the throw invincibility...

Or, yeah, don't do it. :v:

With JI stuff, however, it may be worth trying c.S (JI) 2P, Raei in the corner, since people don't tend to think about the fact that the pullback takes them out of the corner.

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With JI stuff, however, it may be worth trying c.S (JI) 2P, Raei in the corner, since people don't tend to think about the fact that the pullback takes them out of the corner.

If they've seen it once, they'll never fall for it again. Trust me on this one :gonk:

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Raiei isn't a very fast move. With 28 frames of startup, cancelling it from a move like 2P which is only level 2 gives them more than enough time to jump and throw you out of it if they're watching for it, unfortunately.

I don't care about figures ! What I want to know is if people actually DO catch in the air on Raieisageki ! And, more importantly, how often !

I don't get the jump install in the corner after 2+P though. After the FRC you Air Dash and hit ? No need for the "taking out of the corner" part then !

Or do you back dash and hit for a double cross over ? But then it implies they know they are taken out of the corner...

Or maybe you are saying the FRC must be late enough so it'll hit ?

My arcane only consist in landing after the FRC for a normal throw in the corner. Taking them out of the corner is just to make them realize they are facing the wrong way, and I use those precious seconds to catch him.

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I don't care about figures ! What I want to know is if people actually DO catch in the air on Raieisageki ! And, more importantly, how often !

The figures help give you an idea on that. Also, that really depends on the person. If you spam it too much and get predictable, yeah you're going to get caught.

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If they've seen it once, they'll never fall for it again. Trust me on this one :gonk:

Nah, 'cause you can go for the crossup, a throw, a double jump, or a backdash for a re-crossup. That, and the 2P could also lead into rensen or rashou.

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