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Tofma

[XrdS] Sol Badguy Ver1.1 Changes Discussion

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Translation of changes (shoutouts to Flickr for these).

1.SOL

-j.D: CH untechable time increase.

 

-Gunflame: YRC window shortened.

 

-Kudakero: Drop-Part hitbox expanded.

  On block, drop-part push back farther.

  Initial Prorate added(85%).

 

-Riot Stomp: Damage Increased(10-30 > 30-50).

Initial Prorate added(75%).

 

-Grand Viper: Number of mashing input decreased.

 

-Fafnir: Level decrased(4 > 3).

CH rolling time decreased

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In a nutshell:

 

  • Fafnir: On CH, the roll time has been reduced
  • Fafnir. Level decreased from 4 to 3, and frame advantage reduced from +4 to +2.
  • Grand Viper: Additional hits are now easier to input (less mashing required?).
  • Riot Stamp: Damage increased (10+30 to 30+50), but now prorates 75%.
  • Kudakero: Now prorates 85%, it's easier to punish if the first hit is blocked, and can be done closer to the ground (someone who is fluent in japanese should confirm these 2, I'm not quite sure).
  • Gunflame: Reduced frame window for YRC.
  • j.D: ジャンプ D カウンターヒット時の受け身不能時間を増加しました [i don't know what to make of this one. It's j.D easier to CH now, or is it the opposite?]

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Use this thread to discuss Sol changes in 1.1 loketests. 1st post will be updated as info arises.

Oops somehow managed to lose 1st post (on phone lol) but whatever let's use this thread so info isn't lost in gameplay discussion.

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So, do you think max range 5HS>GF YRC isn't going to work anymore? The change seems directed towards that, and hopefully doesn't change the use GF YRC has in pressure without it...

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I don't think that matters much, GF YRC isn't too strong after 5HS anyway simply because you have to wait so long for them to leave blockstun. In most cases the earlier you YRC the GF the better. Delays in pressure are before you actually do GF, not necessarily how long you wait to YRC it. This seems to just make it less lenient. It could possibly hurt GF YRC in pressure but my guess is not significantly.

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  • Gunflame: Reduced frame window for YRC.

mhmhm I hope this doesn't mean you can't YRC asap, that would hurt oki so badly that is already hurt by the BS change

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Kudakero: Now prorates 85%, it's easier to punish if the first hit is blocked, and can be done closer to the ground (someone who is fluent in japanese should confirm these 2, I'm not quite sure).

 

From what Don Jon Blow was saying, it actually seems like it'll be harder to punish; the hitbox on the actual dive being larger and pushing out more means there are probably more situations where you end up being forced to block the 2nd hit, which would put Sol at advantage.

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What boring changes so reading the japanese thing he basically got nothing other than dive kick has a bigger hit box. Other wise all tone downs. Only thing I can think this possible could help is in very long combos where jump dust, to dive kick has to be spaced to combo correctly and is very tight. Now this works easier. Other wise all tone downs yawn...

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Fafnir change seems reasonable, although saddening. Full screen to screen carry with one attack was kind of silly. Hopefully he gets something more since it's just the first loketest.

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  • Gunflame: Reduced frame window for YRC.

mhmhm I hope this doesn't mean you can't YRC asap, that would hurt oki so badly that is already hurt by the BS change</p>

My guess is rather you can't YRC it as late. As it is now you can GF and if you see them jump or something you can YRC on reaction. I just hope it wont be like Ky's now.

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If the Kudakero changes really do include increasing the hitbox on the first hit, then that means Venom can finally start falling in line with the rest of the cast. It might make air combo into Kudakero more consistent as well, so hopefully we'll be able to get Bandit Revolver enders more often on lightweights. I'm more than happy with having initial proration in return for some consistency.

Edit: Oh, so it's hurtbox, not hitbox? Damn.

Also I'll have to do some calculations, but I don't know if the Riot Stamp change is actually all that much of a nerf. In most practical situations, you're only going to be landing it when cornered, which means the follow-up combo will be limited anyway, so the damage buff might offset the initial proration.
 

  • Fafnir. Level decreased from 4 to 3, and frame advantage reduced from +4 to +2.

 

Unfortunate. Now it's going be a lot harder to force opponents to respect you afterwards because they can basically Faultless Defense Jump out for free unless they're in 5K(2) range. We can still chase them with j.P and j.HS, but we've essentially lost the ability to force them to sit down.
 

  • Gunflame: Reduced frame window for YRC.

Welp, saw that one coming.
 

mhmhm I hope this doesn't mean you can't YRC asap, that would hurt oki so badly that is already hurt by the BS change


It'll be effectively what Tofma just said. What this change means is that the point where YRC becomes PRC will be earlier in the move's duration.

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Japanese one just says its on the first hit and block. Its probably so you can be punished easier. Like I said mostly nerfs not a lot of good stuff. If it was hit and block, wouldnt be so bad cuz it would obviously make the follow ups easier in big combos. But as it that part is just a nerf

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https://twitter.com/hc0519/status/562916205229789184

 

an interesting change is if you use blitzshield against projectile and opponent is close enough, they will get repuled. end of disc oki?

 

If the opponent Blitz Shields your projectile while you're nearby, you get rejected. This effectively kills Sol's Gunflame YRC oki because you can just Blitz Shield it now. Even Gunflame YRC in pressure will be weaker because Blitz Shield is a hard counter to it. If they can time the Blitz Shield, they basically get to do an unblockable attack to you on their wakeup. This is a huge nerf to Sol, and it's really a terrible gameplay change.

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I don't think it's as bad as all that, excessive Gun Flame (YRC) oki is kinda wasteful when we have safe jump oki anyway (although admittedly, I am quite partial to it). OTG into Gun Flame (YRC) might not be a legit thing anymore, but that's only assuming that the YRC window will end too early for us to delay YRC to eat inputs. Sol players will definitely need to stop auto-piloting 5HS > Gun Flame in pressure though.

It hurts, but it's not devastating.

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Well I only consider GF YRC for oki wasteful if you do bad setups where they can fuzzy jump out or anti-air/throw OS just as easily as if you didn't use it. But maybe Sol is high enough in air in good setups to avoid getting rejected? Wishful thinking perhaps.

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We'll have to see just how close you have to be to get rejected. Truth be told, if it's any more than one average character size away (hell, even that would be too much), it will make the GF game nigh unplayable. We'll see, that system change does worry me in terms of general game balance. They could have just changed the way invul frames work after BSing a projectile, maybe make it cancelable, anything. 

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Perfect setup GF yrc oki is kinda cheap actually...no reason to not use it every time you have the opportunity

Reversal BS shouldn't be an easy option execution wise. I didn't try much but even karinchu miss time it during the set against mugen

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Perfect setup GF yrc oki is kinda cheap actually...no reason to not use it every time you have the opportunity

Reversal BS shouldn't be an easy option execution wise. I didn't try much but even karinchu miss time it during the set against mugen

Even if it works only half the time you try, that's still as good as guessing high/low.

And if you guess right, you probably get to combo Sol.

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Some of us think that the projectile BS range will be c.S range. If you're far enough to get a f.S then you're probably safe. Really, any range larger is just ludicrous.

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