Venom 1.1 Changelist/Discussion/Video thread

[DaiAndOh]

Ok guys found system changes and Venom changes (the latter thanks to SOWL and Stunedge on twitter)
 
PLEASE NOTE THESE ARE LOCATION TEST CHANGES AND ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE IN THE FINAL BUILD

 

Updated to Test 3
 

Venom changes:
 

Mostly the same from 2.

Ball Set (214P/K/S/HS) - By holding down a different attack button during the ball setup, you generate a corresponding ball. Replaces cancelling sets into each other.  Can now do it either way.
Ball Set (214P/K/S/HS) - the P formation's  P ball is now set slightly lower
Top spin, Back spin - when the set ball is hit with Stinger Aim or Carcass Raid, the ball's level is now increased (ie, turns black and does more hits). See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmqupvZ52KE
QV (41236P/K/S/HS) - the blow back on hit is decreased; the attack level is increased with the charge.

PQV: Hitbox is now the same as other versions.
Dark Angel (2363214S) - Deals 6 more hits (28->34)  Just does better block damage Is now back to 34 hits.
Bishop Runout (2363214HS) - now can be hit sooner; the duration is reduced. Venom can gain meter (slowly) during it. Allows for some interesting combos/loops. See: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153746613526393 for some changes.

c.S (3rd hit): Hitbox increased upwards.

 
Extra Changes noted at the test:
6P, lasts 3F->4F
6HS, changed ball’s path when hit
HS Mad Struggle, last hit dmg 15->25 
 
System Changes:
the input buffer for button presses, forward dash etc. has been increased.
Some commands for specials and supers are now easier to input.
If you Blitz Shield a projectile and the opponent is nearby, they get repelled. Now doesn't grant meter for a successful projectile Blitz.
The start-up of purple Roman Cancel is reduced.
When the opponent uses Roman Cancel during a blue Psyche Burst's start-up, a red Roman Cancel is now performed.
Changed the behavior of neutral ukemi at low altitude.
 
 
My thoughts in order:
Set: With the capability to do it either way, one can stick to their comfort zone.
P Set: This is probably to hit it with 2S. This would be pretty cool. I still hope you can hit it with 5P though.
Spin: Pretty cool. Gives you big reward for using the mechanic.
QV: Seems there may be some nice new combos as well as helping to make Venom's current combos more universal. The attack level going up on charge is very cool and may make for some cool oki situations with QV, where you could be up to +10 or more and the ball gets summoned! PQV getting the same hitbox...not sure if it could replace SQV in combos, but it makes it a better ender in some situations!
Dark Angel: Is now Dark Angel again. I missed you.
Bishop: Now that you can gain some meter, that does eliminate some of my gripes for the move. The new combos may prove worthwhile as well. But with Dark Angel buffs and YRC being YRC, Venom will have lots of strong meter options.

c.S: Mixed feelings depending how it turns out. Hopefully c.S(3) on the characters it works on crouching still works. But to get something like the AC/+R version in terms of anti-air would be great!
6P: Doesn't hurt
6HS BH: Might be ok. Never used it before really. Maybe like AC?
HS Mad Struggle: OP PLS NERF (whatever)
 
System thoughts:
Buffer: May help with execution. 
Commands: *shrug*
Blitz: Turns out it's only point blank. Outside of HS safejump oki, probably not affecting Venom too much. However, word I got from Fino is that K Ball oki can be blitz'd.
PRC: Depending on how much, might be useful I suppose all around
YRC Burst OS: Venom couldn't use it too much (only really on his crouching combos).
Ukemi: *shrug*

[SoWL]

Loketest changes:

http://ggxrd.com/locatest.pdf

Ball Set (214P/K/S/HS) - By holding down a different attack button during the ball setup, you generate a corresponding ball; the P formation's P ball is now set slightly lower.

Top spin, Back spin - when the set ball is hit with Stinger Aim or Carcass Raid, the ball's level is now increased.

Qv (41236P/K/S/HS) - the blow back on hit is decreased; the attack level is increased with the charge.

Dark Angel (2363214S) - now deals 6 hits.

Bishop Runout (2363214HS) - now can be hit sooner; the duration is reduced.

[Kashell]

Wait, so if you summon a ball and then hold a different button during the animation, a -SECOND- ball will come out?

[Eshi]

Wait, so if you summon a ball and then hold a different button during the animation, a -SECOND- ball will come out?

Yeah, I was confused by this too. That's how I interpret it but it sounds a little too good to be true.

[Martikol]

There has to be a drawback for that too big of a buff, maybe a larger recovery ?

[SoWL]

I assume that it won't be much faster than the current input, it's just that it's easier to do. But yeah, we won't know for sure until we see it.

[Kashell]

That's good news about the Bishop Runout being quicker. I really enjoy using it.

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

Excited about QV having less knockback. Means easier QV loops and midscreen S QV, 5P IAD stuff works on more characters and from more setups.

Maybe the ball set thing means that you'll get the corresponding ball in the followup's set? IE 214 K~S would get a K ball in the S pattern? If so helloooooooo +R K ball position.

If bursts trigger red RC then does that mean "soul stealing" burst throws are no longer possible?

I'm a little wary of Blitz repelling projectiles and Venom up close. I really hope it doesn't fuck with K and P ball oki. If it does, at the very least have give us some kind of reward for baiting a Blitz that triggers like that.

[Justice7541]

Straight buffs, good game.

[KrsJin]

For top spin/back spin, the level is increased, is that just attack level? Pretty awesome if so.

[DaiAndOh]

Excited about QV having less knockback. Means easier QV loops and midscreen S QV, 5P IAD stuff works on more characters and from more setups.

Maybe the ball set thing means that you'll get the corresponding ball in the followup's set? IE 214 K~S would get a K ball in the S pattern? If so helloooooooo +R K ball position.

If bursts trigger red RC then does that mean "soul stealing" burst throws are no longer possible?

I'm a little wary of Blitz repelling projectiles and Venom up close. I really hope it doesn't fuck with K and P ball oki. If it does, at the very least have give us some kind of reward for baiting a Blitz that triggers like that.

 

Interesting thought on the ball set...that would be...something....(P~K in your thought I think would be good, a ball you can set and then wait to 5P or 6P, should that be the case).

 

Straight buffs, good game.

The buffs are cool but they aren't gamebreaking. His effectiveness will be determined by how much his bad matchups get nerfed, and if Projectile Reject State blitz stays in, that's a scary thought.

 

For top spin/back spin, the level is increased, is that just attack level? Pretty awesome if so.

I THINK it's ball level as in the charged ones from Stinger and QV. Which is still really good.

Also there maybe "stealth changes". We'll see...

[Justice7541]

The ball set change sounds more like he's just gonna autoset the next ball by holding the corresponding button, honestly. Still a pretty good change if so cause it'll mean we can always set balls with just frame timing, regardless of input buffering or lack thereof.

[Shadow Ninja 64]

The ball set change sounds more like he's just gonna autoset the next ball by holding the corresponding button, honestly. Still a pretty good change if so cause it'll mean we can always set balls with just frame timing, regardless of input buffering or lack thereof.

This is how I interpreted it as well.

[Eshi]

Maybe the ball set thing means that you'll get the corresponding ball in the followup's set? IE 214 K~S would get a K ball in the S pattern? If so helloooooooo +R K ball position.

Huh... when you put it that way, that sounds REALLY good for two ball formations to enable oki setups that would normally take too long. I hope that's how it works!

 

 

The ball set change sounds more like he's just gonna autoset the next ball by holding the corresponding button, honestly. Still a pretty good change if so cause it'll mean we can always set balls with just frame timing, regardless of input buffering or lack thereof.

This would be fantastic too.

[Redefinition]

Maybe the ball set thing means that you'll get the corresponding ball in the followup's set? IE 214 K~S would get a K ball in the S pattern? If so helloooooooo +R K ball position.

 

I really hope that this is the way the change goes about. You hit 214P~K and get Pball in the K position. Could be super, super strong, especially with some of the ball positions in the S formation.

 

Bishop Runout (2363214HS) - now can be hit sooner; the duration is reduced. 

 

If you Blitz Shield a projectile and the opponent is nearby, they get repelled.

 

Bishop Runout already lasts a rather long time. I'm honestly not too concerned about the duration being cut in half, as I only find it SUPER useful for the first two or three hits anyway, but that's just me.

 

That Blitz Shield change straight up blows. Would like to have them make people unable to Blitz on wakeup, like AC/+R slashback. Otherwise we're in some serious trouble, I think.

 

Overall, aside from the blitz shield change, I like our character changes. Opens up some new combo options and stronger zoning, I think.

[DaiAndOh]

lol several high profile players in Japan already want to petition the Blitz Change (not just Venom, no), we'll see how that goes (they give feedback forms after Location tests). We'll see. I'll be amused to see videos at least.

[Eshi]

The Blitz Shield change won't affect Venom's corner oki/pressure that much, but I predict that it will ruin his midscreen oki. Especially if the Blitz Shield is unblockable like how it's unescapable vs. physical attacks. All H ball oki options will lose to high BS except for empty jump throw/low which lose to throw/fuzzy jump. K ball oki just won't work at all. H Ball YRC oki should work at least.

[DaiAndOh]

I'm worried about people Blitzing Carcass Raids and QVs depending on how far the radius is....

[Justice7541]

On the plus side, it helps Venom a lot since we don't really have a reversal otherwise. It'll make a big difference versus the current setplay characters, although they're probably gettng nerfed anyway for the most part.

[Pomparomp]

If the change works how it sounds, it neuters too many options on too many characters to ever make it into a finalized update.

[WayINside]

I really hope that this is the way the change goes about. You hit 214P~K and get Pball in the K position. Could be super, super strong, especially with some of the ball positions in the S formation.

 

 

I think I'm really missing something (just picked up Venom in this version). What's the difference between the balls beside the position?

I mean, isn't putting Pbal in the K position is equivalent to just putting the K ball in the first place?

 

Edit. I understood it as 214K, 214K~P will give you the same result as 214K,214P

[GodPress]

I'm not a fan of the blitz change.

 

I've interpreted the ball set as in it auto generates your second ball you input. Would be interesting to note if you could then hold that second input to teleport to it, that'd be cool.

[KrsJin]

I'm worried about people Blitzing Carcass Raids and QVs depending on how far the radius is....

Outside of mid screen Oki, the ability to BS CRs really scares me. The move is way easy to react to or even anticipate in block strings. We'll have to wait and see though. Sky isn't falling just yet

[Kashell]

I guess I'm still not following the multi-ball thing. I'm anxious to seem some videos with these changes.

[KrsJin]

IF this new ball summon mechanic ensures perfect frame timing on the second summon, paired with Bishop's Runout being able to be hit sooner, it's going to be so easy to get a 2 ball BR on the screen.

Sorry thinking outloud, I've come to love that super haha.