Novix Report post Posted July 19, 2009 Is it always a good idea to tech? like is there any reason for just falling and recovering normally? Opponent can still hit you until you tech and you can't block on wakeup if you don't tech. When I first picked up the game I couldn't figure out why I couldn't block boss nu's million sword super. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4r5 Report post Posted July 19, 2009 Nobody explained the 623A>2C timing yet. Like I said, he did it midscreen after a 236A wall bounce, using the 623A dash to get closer. 236A>623A, 2C It's a link. If you hit 2C and no 2C comes out, you hit the button too soon, you were still in recovery from 623A. If 2C does come out but doesn't combo, then you hit the button too late, you waited too long. (BB specific: Or the combo has too many hits.) This is straight up execution. Hit the button, if it ain't working, then it either doesn't work or you need to practice more. This is the answer for all your posts in the gameplay sections, and has been the answer you've been getting for years. There's no special trick to it. It's just execution. You either practice or you don't. You either hit the button at the right time, or you didn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magatama Junkie Report post Posted July 19, 2009 Also, if the problem is you're hitting the button too soon, you can hold the button down to do the advanced input thing and that might help a bit. Training mode! Get there! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sepheriel Report post Posted July 19, 2009 How come everytime I try and follow up 2C with j.2C the opponent can always tech out of it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MadRhetoric Report post Posted July 19, 2009 How come everytime I try and follow up 2C with j.2C the opponent can always tech out of it? what character are you trying to do it to? Most of the time Nu, Arakune, Bang, and Carl can't be hit with the j.2c if you only jump normally out of the 2c (you can in certain circumstances if the timing is absolutely perfect) because they're too light, you need to super jump into your j.2c. Against everyone else all I can say is just time your jump cancel from the 2c sooner and try to hit the j.2c as soon as you're in the air. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blade Report post Posted July 20, 2009 236A>623A, 2C It's a link. If you hit 2C and no 2C comes out, you hit the button too soon, you were still in recovery from 623A. If 2C does come out but doesn't combo, then you hit the button too late, you waited too long. (BB specific: Or the combo has too many hits.) This is straight up execution. Hit the button, if it ain't working, then it either doesn't work or you need to practice more. This is the answer for all your posts in the gameplay sections, and has been the answer you've been getting for years. There's no special trick to it. It's just execution. You either practice or you don't. You either hit the button at the right time, or you didn't. Thanks but, harsh, man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sepheriel Report post Posted July 20, 2009 what character are you trying to do it to? Most of the time Nu, Arakune, Bang, and Carl can't be hit with the j.2c if you only jump normally out of the 2c (you can in certain circumstances if the timing is absolutely perfect) because they're too light, you need to super jump into your j.2c. Against everyone else all I can say is just time your jump cancel from the 2c sooner and try to hit the j.2c as soon as you're in the air. Thanks. Also, I have a hard time air dashing after a j.2C. I use the D-Pad on the controller so I thought it'd be pretty fast, but damn, you got be even faster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qwerty Report post Posted July 22, 2009 i'ved ducked and jumped, it seems a lot more reliable/doableonreaction if thats really your goto option for escapes and reversals then i'm gonna call you a liar reversal backdash -> tk hotaru. not that hard really. by all means if you get caught in the air when tao does her shit, if u can react, go for it, i never called it a bad move, but you were saying it was a dp option...its not anti air with long vertical range and startup invul. sounds like a dp to me. yes, you have one frame to get into the air where you're vulnerable, but that is essentially a nonissue considering how fast hotaru is. plus let's not forget there are real dp's in this game that have no startup invul (jin's A dp comes to mind). regardless, it's there to be abused from ground to air and i'd like to see if anyone can come up with a decent followup for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryokoalways Report post Posted July 22, 2009 just link it into 5c or jc. Either one should work on hotaru and it will lead to other regular combos. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faultydefense Report post Posted July 22, 2009 reversal backdash -> tk hotaru. not that hard really. anti air with long vertical range and startup invul. sounds like a dp to me. yes, you have one frame to get into the air where you're vulnerable, but that is essentially a nonissue considering how fast hotaru is. plus let's not forget there are real dp's in this game that have no startup invul (jin's A dp comes to mind). regardless, it's there to be abused from ground to air and i'd like to see if anyone can come up with a decent followup for it. do u know why reversal backdashes work? because they have invuln do you know who's backdash doesnt have invuln? and no one's gonna be using Jin's 623A to beat a meaty just like how "reversal" hotaru won't beat it the main uses for ground hotaru would be a very vertical anti-air, used in frame traps with dash, and potentially just to save yourself if your actually fast enough to notice your back/forward dash is gonna get punished hard i just want to make it clear to the newbies that this is not a reversal option, if its somethign your so sure that you know you can get 1 frame dash into hotaru then just D counter it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
qwerty Report post Posted July 22, 2009 just link it into 5c or jc. Either one should work on hotaru and it will lead to other regular combos. the problem with j.C is that hotaru only gives you a jump cancel. but 5C (and 6C!) link just fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whitevoid Report post Posted July 22, 2009 I'm not 100% sure on this but I think it's at least 4 frames of jump before the move comes out, because jumps take 4 frames. I don't think TKing moves cuts into jump frames. And backdash cancels earliest at 8 frames with, as has been mentioned, no invulnerability. Why would you waste orbs with it for an anti-air anyways? Hakumen has plenty of good anti-airs with much better damage options than hotaru provides. Has anyone tried it out in the Tager match-up? The main reason why I'm thinking to use it more there is that it puts you in the air to avoid his throws and has invulnerability to beat out his slower moves. It whiffs less against Tager too since he is so tall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryokoalways Report post Posted July 22, 2009 Because hotaru doesn't scale horribly like 6a, and is significantly safer than 2c. It has the safety of 6a (even better actually), and the vertical coverage of 2c, and it provides a minimal damage return of 3.5k. As for how jc links, it's basically just jc > land 5c. As for why I mentioned both of them, you actually want to do the 5c combo if you just want the damage, and the jc combo if you want the knockdown. Hotaru, as an offensive tool, works extremely well as a bait tool via air entry. Something along the lines of AD jc, delayed hotaru will hit 90% of the time, and when it doesn't you should be 100% safe (unless they barrier blocked your jc, in which case you shouldn't hotaru anyways because you have the advantage and they obviously are not trying to reversal you). Adding it to part of your game will make AD approach significantly more viable against certain matchups. This is not limited to any specific character. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kumlekar Report post Posted July 22, 2009 Has anyone tried it out in the Tager match-up? The main reason why I'm thinking to use it more there is that it puts you in the air to avoid his throws and has invulnerability to beat out his slower moves. It whiffs less against Tager too since he is so tall. Oh, this reminds me of something mentioned on the carl boards, because carl's dash is considered airborne it makes him throw immune, I don't see why Haku's should be any different. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shining Aquas Report post Posted July 22, 2009 Since dashing with Haku is considered airborne, you can't be grabbed during the dash. However, Haku's dash is a bit lower to the ground than Carl's dash, and therefore spends a lot less time in the air. You are much more likely to get thrown out once you land, unless you do Tsubaki or something while airborne during the dash. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4r5 Report post Posted July 22, 2009 So I've found these to be the most damage you can get for the stars spent. Let's see if we can squeeze out a bit more damage. ok, I'm going to list the following combos by stars, with the most damaging last. You can start these combos how ever you want. How you start the combo will obviously affect the damage, but if you intend to spend the stars: these are the most damage (that I have found) you can get for the stars spent. I'm also going to show an example combo, just so you can atleast get an idea for the damage. and here's a small legend: , = link > = cancel (x) = first x hits, only [n] = charge n button f.n = falling n COMBOS 0 Star A, A, A, A = 490 6A, 6A, 3C = 1395 2A, 2A, 2A, 2A = 408 B, 2A, 2A = 820 2B, 2A, 2A, 2A = 843 CH A, 3C = 909 CH 6A, dash, 6A, 6A, 3C = 1517 CH B, 3C = 1414 CH 2B, 3C = 1275 CH 3C, 2C>j.2C = 2103 1 Star 236A C>236A = 1448236A, 6C (236A connects on air hit) 6B>236A, 6C = 2008236A, 6[C] (236A connects on high air hit) CH 6B>236A, 6[C] = 2099236A, 2C... (236A connects on high air hit, near corner/corner) 6B>236A, 2C>j.2C, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, 2C, ad.2C, 2C, C = 3333 2 Star 214B C>214B = 2236236A>623A, 2C... (236A connects on air hit) 6B>236A>623A, 2C>j.2C, ad.C = 2391214B, 2C... (corner) C>214B, 2C>j.2C, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, 2C, ad.2C, 2C, C = 4586 3 Star 214B>236A, 6C C>214B>236A, 6C = 333441236C, 3C CH C>41236C, 3C = 3633214B, C>236A, 2C... (corner) C>214B, C>236A, 2C>j.2C, f.C, 2C>sj.2C, C = 485241236C, 2C... (corner) CH C>41236C, 2C>sj.2C, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, C = 4924 4 Star 214B(1)>623A>A>jump, f.C, land, 2C... C>214B(1)>623A>A>jump, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, ad.C = 4280(corner) C>214B(1)>623A>A>j.2C, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, 2C, ad.2C, 2C,C = 480441236C>236A (corner) CH C>41236C>236A, 2C>j.2C, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, C = 4976 5 Star 214B(1)>41236C, 3C C>214B(1)>41236C, 3C = 4639214B(1)>41236C, 2C... (corner) C>214B(1)>41236C, 2C>j.2C, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, C = 6191 6 Star 214B(1)>41236C, C>236A, 6C C>214B(1)>41236C, C>236A, 6C = 5571214B(1)>41236C>236A, 2C... C>214B(1)>41236C>236A, 2C>j.2C, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, 2C = 6236 7 Star 214B(1)>41236C, C>236A>623A, 2C... C>214B(1)>41236C>623A>A, jump, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, ad.2C = 5966(corner) C>214B(1)>41236C>623A>A>jump, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, 2C, ad.2C, 2C = 6304214B(1)>41236C, C>214B, 2C... (corner) C>214B(1)>41236C, C>214B, 2C>j.2C, f.C = 6621 8 Star 214B(1)>41236C, C>41236C, 3C (near corner/big characters) C>214B(1)>41236C, C>41236C, 3C = 6615214B(1)>41236C, C>41236C, 2C... (corner) C>214B(1)>41236C, C>41236C, 2C>j.2C, f.C = 7118 Going to change it up a bit now. I'm going to list the combo, and underneath the combo will be the starter to the above combo. DRIVE-COUNTER COMBOS 0 Star 6C D = 2710 6[C] 2D = 2215 j.2C, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, ad.2C, 2C, C(you in corner) D = 4157(you in corner) 2D = 3477) superjump, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, ad.C 6D = 2119 1 Star 236A, 6[C]D = 31072D = 2427 superjump, f.C, land, C>236A, 6C6D = 2302 2 Star 236A>623A, 2C>sj.2C, ad.CD = 34572D = 2745 superjump, f.C, land, C>623A>A>jump, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C 6D = 2867 3 Star 623A, C>623A>A>jump, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, ad.2CD = 43732D = 3693 superjump, f.C, land, C>41236C, 3C 6D = 3367 4 Star 6C>632146C D = 4976 6[C]>632146C 2D = 4481 C>41236C, C>236A, 2C>j.2C, f.C(you in corner) D = 5577(you in corner) 2D = 4669 superjump, f.C, land, C>41236C, C>236A, 6C 6D = 4001 5 Star 214B(1)>41236C, 3CD = 52922D = 46126D, superjump, f.C, land, C = 4192 214B(1)>41236C, 2C>j.2C, f.C(you in corner) D = 6058(you in corner) 2D = 5378(corner) 6D = 3880 6 Star 214B(1)>41236C, C>236A, 6CD = 62392D = 55596D, superjump, f.C, land, C = 5559 214B(1)>41236C, C>236A, 2C>j.2C, f.C(you in corner) D = 6653(you in corner) 2D = 5973(corner) 6D, superjump, f.C, land, C = 4809 7 Star 214B(1)>41236C>623A>A>j.2C D = 55652D = 48856D, superjump, f.C, land, C = 4412 8 Star 214B(1)>41236C, C>41236C D = 68582D = 61786D, superjump, f.C, land, C = 5452 214B(1)>41236C, C>41236C, 3C (you in corner) D = 7304(you in corner) 2D = 6624(corner) 6D, superjump, f.C, land, C = 5811 DASH>214B COMBOS 2 Star dash>214B>doublejump, f.C, land, 2C>j.2C, ad.2C = 3410 (corner) dash>214B>dj.2C, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, 2C, ad.2C, 2C, f.C = 4008 3 Star dash>214B>doublejump, f.C, land, C>236A, 6C = 3632 (corner) dash>214B>doublejump, f.C, land, C>236A, 2C>j.2C, f.C, land. 2C>sj2C, 2C = 4710 4 Star dash>214B, land, dash>214B>doublejump, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, ad.2C = 4065 (corner) dash>214B>doublejump, f.C, land, C>214B, 2C>j.2C, C = 4741 5 Star dash>214B>doublejump, f.C, land, C>41236C, 3C = 4734 (corner) dash>214B, land, dash>214C, land, 2C>j.2C, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, ad.2C, 2C, C = 5390 6 Star dash>214B>doublejump, f.C, land, C>41236C, C>236A, 6C = 5392 (corner) dash>214B, land, dash>214C, land, C>236A, 2C>j.2C, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, 2C = 5556 7 Star dash>214B>doublejump, f.C, land, C>214B(1)>41236C, 3C = 5586 (corner) dash>214B>doublejump, f.C, land, C>214B(1)>41236C, 2C>j.2C. f.C = 6223 8 Star dash>214B>doublejump, f.C, land, C>214B(1)>41236C, C>236A, 6C = 6374 (corner) dash>214B, land, 214B(1)>41236C, C>236A, 2C>j.2C, C = 6576 DASH>214C COMBOS 3 Star dash>214C, land, 2C>j.2C = 3284 (corner) dash>214C, land, 2C>j.2C, f.C, land, 2C>sj,2C, 2C, ad.2C, 2C, f.C = 4878 4 Star dash>214C, land, C>236A, 6C = 3874 (corner) dash>214C, land, C>236A, 2C>j.2C, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, 2C, ad.2C, 2C = 5169 5 Star dash>214C>214B>doublejump, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, ad.C = 4646 (corner) dash>214C, land, 2C>j.2C, f.C, land, C>214B, 2C>j.2C, f.C = 5263 6 Star dash>214C, land, C>41236C, 3C = 4976 (corner) dash>214C, land, C>41236C, 2C>j.2C, f.C = 5506 7 Star dash>214C, land, C>41236C, C>236A, 6C = 5633 (corner) dash>214C>214B>doublejump, f.C, land, C>214B, 2C>j.2C, C = 5711 8 Star dash>214C, land, C>214B(1)>41236C, 3C = 5827 (corner) dash>214C, land, C>214B(1)>41236C, 2C>j.2C, C = 6465 As you can see, there's def some diminishing returns going on. There's even some situations where the lesser star combos do more damage then the greater star combo, dunno if I bothered listing them or not. If you wanna figure out the damage to star ratio, I leave the division to you. Also, someone might want to figure out how much meter each combo gives back. alright, goodnight. hopefully no typos and I didn't forget anything. JackG, do whatever you want with it edit: couple more thing. off dash cancel 214C. Apparently when you cancel the dash affects what you can follow up with. You wanna cancel it as late as possible, so that you're closer to the ground and land faster after you connect, or something. And when doing 214B(1)>41236C, you wanna try to put as much delay as possible between the two moves. This is so they land closer to you, when you hit them with 41236C. Not needed for every combo, but it also won't hurt it. e-edit: last couple of things. everything done on Jin. haven't messed around with crouching combos yet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doug1291 Report post Posted July 22, 2009 nice^ i was wondering...since hakus dash is like a mini hop and can enable air moves, why cant we airdash during it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryokoalways Report post Posted July 22, 2009 Because the dash only provides you with an additional condition, it isn't a completely different state entirely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blade Report post Posted July 22, 2009 I don't suppose you could mark the combos designated for building stars rather than damage? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4r5 Report post Posted July 22, 2009 No combos are designated as meter building, as I wasn't looking for meter building combos. Really, you're either spending stars or you're doing the j.2C-loop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackG Report post Posted July 22, 2009 wow good job 4r5. There's a good chance I'll just completely change the first post in lieu of yours since it covers everything and very neatly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4r5 Report post Posted July 22, 2009 here's a little bit more 2 star (you in corner) D>214B, 2C>sj.2C, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, 2C = 5069 (you in corner) 2D>214B, 2C>sj.2C, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, 2C = 4389 3 star (you in corner) D, 2C>sj.B>dj.C>214C, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, C = 5307 (you in corner) 2D, 2C>sj.B>dj.C>214C, f.C, land, 2C>sj.2C, C = 4627 (tager only?) D, dash, A>sj.B>dj.B>214C, f.B, land, 2C...? = 4109... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gmsephiroth Report post Posted July 22, 2009 Wow, awesome. Gonna copy this down and get working on getting those combos learned right away... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whitevoid Report post Posted July 22, 2009 Amazing stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doug1291 Report post Posted July 22, 2009 how the heck do you super jump after the 2c in time to hit with j.2c in the j.2c combos. am i missing something or do i just suck really bad at timing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
